Are ex pride fighters over hyped?

[jonbonesjones]

discuss

[Guest]

no.

 

And Werdum was in pride too

[Guest]

No. First of all Fedor is still one of the best fighters on the planet. He just got caught with a huge rookie mistake that can be fixed easily. He just won't be agressive on the ground. Secondly most of the guys who fought in Pride had their peaks during that time. For example...Hendo is 39, Cro Cop is 35, Wand is 33.

 

IIRC Shogun wasn't as highly touted as the other icons of Pride but since he's only 28 well....he's the UFC LHW Champion now.

[jiggy]

I agree with Jeremy.

 

Nope.

 

But, I can't wait for brainsmasher to chime in.

[Guest]

to some degree yes..i remember when herring first came into the ufc how they hyped him..he ended up losing cuz he has virtually no ground game..big nog hasn't beat anyone relevant other than sylvia when he first came in..cro cop has been a shell of himself in the ufc..wandy's also failed to beat anyone relevant to this day in the ufc..when shogun came in, everyone was calling him the best LHW on the planet and he comes up short his first few times out..granted his knees weren't 100% even up to now he's had the easiest path to the title EVER..mark coleman and a falling chuck liddell..it might just be true

[Guest]

I wouldnt say they're overhyped.

 

Most of the top Pride guys did well when they came over to the UFC, with the exception of Wanderlei. However, he looked great in that fight with Bisping...and since he had his nose reconstructed so he can breathe better, he looks to be on the upswing. Shogun is the Light Heavywight Champion, Rampage is Rampage, the Nogueira brothers are still around, Fedor has dominated Strikeforce and Affliction (until Werdum), Werdum beat Fedor, Hendo is still a top Middleweight, and Paulo Filho has one loss.

 

I say they were just good fighters.

[jiggy]

to some degree yes..i remember when herring first came into the ufc how they hyped him..he ended up losing cuz he has virtually no ground game..big nog hasn't beat anyone relevant other than sylvia when he first came in..cro cop has been a shell of himself in the ufc..wandy's also failed to beat anyone relevant to this day in the ufc..when shogun came in, everyone was calling him the best LHW on the planet and he comes up short his first few times out..granted his knees weren't 100% even up to now he's had the easiest path to the title EVER..mark coleman and a falling chuck liddell..it might just be true

Easiest path to a a title EVER? Are you retarded? Have you heard of Brock Lesnar?

[Guest]

i think brock's whole career is a sham bro..i hardly even think he's worth mentioning in an mma discussion..that's just my view though

[Guest]

Easiest path to a a title EVER? Are you retarded? Have you heard of Brock Lesnar?

 

So true.

[PBR]

i think brock's whole career is a sham bro..i hardly even think he's worth mentioning in an mma discussion..that's just my view though

no sham not even close -- but is he one of the best -- no way not even close -- he is single skill phased but he is so strong in that single skill that he can win -- its going to take someone physically same size wise and strength -- or that one good shot to the chin -- bottom line everyone can be beat -- he isnt top level but no sham

[Guest]

No. First of all Fedor is still one of the best fighters on the planet. He just got caught with a huge rookie mistake that can be fixed easily. He just won't be agressive on the ground. Secondly most of the guys who fought in Pride had their peaks during that time. For example...Hendo is 39, Cro Cop is 35, Wand is 33.

 

IIRC Shogun wasn't as highly touted as the other icons of Pride but since he's only 28 well....he's the UFC LHW Champion now.

agreed.

[Guest]

I think like anything you look back on... it seems better in the minds eye than it actualy was at the time, but did some of the best fighters to ever walk the planet come out of that org? Yeah they did and you can bank on that.

[Guest]

to some degree yes..i remember when herring first came into the ufc how they hyped him..he ended up losing cuz he has virtually no ground game..big nog hasn't beat anyone relevant other than sylvia when he first came in..cro cop has been a shell of himself in the ufc..wandy's also failed to beat anyone relevant to this day in the ufc..when shogun came in, everyone was calling him the best LHW on the planet and he comes up short his first few times out..granted his knees weren't 100% even up to now he's had the easiest path to the title EVER..mark coleman and a falling chuck liddell..it might just be true

 

Herring has been fighting since 1997. He entered the UFC in 2007. Did you actually expect him to be the same fighter? His UFC record is 2-3, lost to Lesnar, Nogueira, and a pretty good Jake O'Brien.

 

Nog has beaten Herring, Sylvia, Couture lost to Mir & Cain. Nothing to complain about. Nog's been fighting since 99-00 and didn't join the UFC until 07'. You can't expect these guys to stay on top of their game after all these years. Especially Nog. That dude's probably taken more shots to the head than Wanderlei.

 

Can't believe you are even mentioning Shogun. He was considered the best LHW, that's why Forrest was so happy when he beat him. And he did have surgery twice on the same knee. He has come back to beat Coleman, Liddell, & Machida (some would argue that he beat Machida twice). Easiest path to a title? You're fucking insane and just proved how retarded you are. STFU.

 

Cro Cop & Wanderlei are the only two that have really struggled, but to call the Pride guys over hyped especially since a lot of them were fighting years before PRIDE is fucking ignorant. You can't expect these guys to still be in great condition & in their prime. You take too many shots to the head it's going to catch up to you. Age is going to catch up with you. Broken bones and bruises will catch up with you. Most of the fighters in the UFC have only been fighting for 5-8 years. These PRIDE guys have been fighting for 10+ years.

 

Younger, faster, stronger fighters just like in human evolution are going to end up on top. The old guys usually have to fall at some point. These guys garnered the hype they got because they proved it and earned it. And it's basic business strategy especially in MMA to hype and talk up fighters to sell fights. So if you think these guys are over hyped then blame the UFC and yourself. But at one point these fighters were legit and not "overhyped".

 

Everyone is so quick to pick on the PRIDE guys and claim they are overhyped, but what about Couture and Liddell. Did the UFC overhype these guys now that they are losing. Were they really not that good, and we just bought into the hype?

 

Quit being stupid people.

[MirkoAliTyson]

In contrast of fighting somewhere else then Japan? Yes. The reason is that Japan didn't have doping controls. That's why pride fighters fought on such unparaleled level. Just look at Fedors body and then look at what tempo and what pace is he pushing every fight, but then look at the same guy later in usa. You see a guy almost ko'd by Rogers. look at Wand. He used to throw 10 and more punches. Each strong and hard enough to ko anyone. Now he's waiting for the last 10 seconds of the fight to throw the first combination. Bisping fight. Minotaur also. He couldn't be ko'd. Why? With so much dope in your body you can almost fly. Pride was all about the dope.

[jacky67]

In contrast of fighting somewhere else then Japan? Yes. The reason is that Japan didn't have doping controls. That's why pride fighters fought on such unparaleled level. Just look at Fedors body and then look at what tempo and what pace is he pushing every fight, but then look at the same guy later in usa.

 

 

http://knoxxgear.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/...ir-early-years/

 

look brock lesnar he dope him during 15 years of his life.

 

If u look only the higlight of pride yes u can believe they are dope ,but that's BS .

 

ROHDude explain it very well the pride fighters are older now .

[SteelPenn]

The answer is no. They just did not see this level of skilled fighters in japan, also a lot of them have passed there prime

[Guest]

No

[MirkoAliTyson]

http://knoxxgear.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/...ir-early-years/

 

look brock lesnar he dope him during 15 years of his life.

 

If u look only the higlight of the in pride yes u can believe they are dope ,but that's BS .

 

ROHDude explain it very well the pride fighters are older now .

 

 

You missed my point. I DON'T think they are over hyped in a manor discussed here, but it's more then obvious that they did some extraordinary things in Japan. Especially guys like Fedor who is obviously in a bad shape, but manages to push the pace and do very unlikely things for a guy in his shape. Sure they are older, but not that older. look at Rampage in Pride. He was never a training type, but look at his body in Pride. That was done easily with some help. After that in us he isn't 50% of that. He didn't get that old that fast. It's the chemistry. Very obvious.

 

Lesnar? I don't even see him in this picture. When he has at least 4-5 fights against quality opponents maybe he gets my attention. Till then he can juice up all he wants. Not that he can now in ufc, but that's beside the point.

[Guest]

7 out of 10 times yes.

[jacky67]

http://s2.noelshack.com/upload/10368647181585_brock.jpg

 

Fedor in bade shape ????

 

U mean in bade shape like roy nelson because he has some fat ???

[MirkoAliTyson]

Yes. He is not well trained, just like Roy Nelson. in pride he could compensate with the juice, but now he cant. He lost weight, what is a logical thing to do, but even with this weight lost you can clearly see that he is in a very bad shape. If you compare him to other hw's like Cain, JDS, and many other you must only have that conclusion. This fairytale of Fedor as some miracle baby that can look like a couch potato and have remarkable fitness is for the thick.

[HumanGoing]

Yes. He is not well trained, just like Roy Nelson. in pride he could compensate with the juice, but now he cant. He lost weight, what is a logical thing to do, but even with this weight lost you can clearly see that he is in a very bad shape. If you compare him to other hw's like Cain, JDS, and many other you must only have that conclusion. This fairytale of Fedor as some miracle baby that can look like a couch potato and have remarkable fitness is for the thick.

 

BLASPHEMY! How dare you speak ill of the miracle baby.

 

[Guest]

Yes and No

 

 

I think around 2003 the fighters were good with the exception of normal people who are over and under hyped. The that group of people never changed. That 2003 group had already been there 4 years or longer. So these guys where getting slower and aging but so was everyone else. Some the product didnt change. It looked the same. The fights look as meaningful and competitive as ever. But the same can be said when you watch KOTC. Their champs and best fighters look great as long as they fight each other. Its not until they step up to the next level you see they can or cant cut it. Pride fighters went to the UFC, WEC, K-1, and many other smaller shows and they as a whole have shown they cant cut it. But that was the 2007 version of Pride fighters. Now its impossible to know if the 2003 version of Prdie fighters could have cut it. It would be like predicting what rookies in the NFL are going to be big stars. There are about 100 players who expected to be stars. 90 of them will be bagging groceries within 3 years.

 

In the end i believe some would have had success and most wouldnt. A guy like Nog in 2003 would have done well. His size, style, skill set, toughness, and ground game thats rare at HW would have made him very good. Not sure of he would be chamo but he would have had a great career. I think a guy like Fedor who isnt really an expert at anything and undersized for HW would have struggled in the UFC. Cro Cop would also. A guy like Gomi would have done well in the UFC also.

 

Aging is just one of the problems that have effect Pride fighters outside of Pride. You cant ignore the steroid issue. The physiques and weights changed in many of the fighters.

[Guest]

The ones that were doping (Crocop and Wandy) definitely are. But for the most part I would say no. Fighters past their prime are still hyped by the UFC based on their Pride record, giving this impression. More successful former Pride fighters like Shogun and Rampage are hyped as part of the UFC roster more recently, so you don't get this impression.

[Guest]

Relative to their UFC contemporaries they weren't. Look at the champs in each division during both orgs heydays and its about even in terms of downfalls.

 

UFC Heavyweight Champs - Silva, Arlovski, Mir, Couture. Only 1 of those guys has beaten a Pride contemporary. The other 3 lost to former Pride fighters and all 4 of them are in career tailspins....kind of like the overrated Pride guys.

 

UFC LHW Champs - Liddell, Couture, Ortiz. Good fighters in their day but just like the Pride guys their careers have gone in the tank recently.

 

UFC Middleweight Champs - Tanner and Franklin. When Silva came over he was an "Other". Still is in a lot of ways. Either way, look at the champs and even look at the guys they fought. Not a one of them are contenders. All overrated ?

 

UFC Welterweight Champs - Hughes was the man during most of the Pride controversy. Where is he at now ? Yep. What about guys he fought against ? Other than Penn and Pierre not a relevant one amongst them. All overrated ?

 

Lightweight - I'm lazy. I'm sure its the same story.

 

No, the Pride guys weren't overrated. Neither were the UFC guys. I think the general thought at the time, at least from people with a brain was that the UFC heavyweights were a joke. Liddell was worthy at the top, but Pride had more depth at LHW. Franklin was good but untested, and Hughes would be dominant in either org. Sounds about right, for the time.