Amature MMA

[Guest]

Hey does anybody know were i can get amature mma fights since i am 15 (im 15 turning 16 at ther end of the year) i do not see any avalible mma fights down here in canada. does anybody know were i can get some legally i am willing to traval. I am a green belt in tae kwon do yellow belt in BJJ, blue shorts in muay thai and the funementals of boxing should i try and find fights in the us or keep training and wait till im 18.

[Guest]

If you have a BJJ and MT coach I assume they can help you.

 

Unless you can get some junior fights I'd just keep training. Otherwise you're gonna get crushed by stronger, more experienced men. If not you could compete in BJJ or something.

[Guest]

I think it will be hard to fight in a sanctioned state. A guy I trained with back in the day fought at 16 and they wouldn't let him punch on the ground.

[Guest]

I think it will be hard to fight in a sanctioned state. A guy I trained with back in the day fought at 16 and they wouldn't let him punch on the ground.

sounds like rule you would see in the Olympics. @Mannetosen my MT coach is my uncle and he says he doesn't train me in mma so he wont book me a fight until i turn 18.

[Guest]

Then you should wait. Trust your coaches, they know more about your skills than you do.

[Guest]

sounds like rule you would see in the Olympics. @Mannetosen my MT coach is my uncle and he says he doesn't train me in mma so he wont book me a fight until i turn 18.

 

 

The fight was in Ohio. Dont remember if it was sanctioned at the time or not. Funny thing is the guy from my gym was placed in the state in wrestling and was a BJJ purple belt. Fighting a skinny Karate guy. They met in the locker room and the karate guys dad said "I think you are in trouble" to his son. lol

 

He has had a pretty good career so far.

 

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Andrew-Varney-13772

[Guest]

The fight was in Ohio. Dont remember if it was sanctioned at the time or not. Funny thing is the guy from my gym was placed in the state in wrestling and was a BJJ purple belt. Fighting a skinny Karate guy. They met in the locker room and the karate guys dad said "I think you are in trouble" to his son. lol

 

He has had a pretty good career so far.

 

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Andrew-Varney-13772

how come it says retirement after his last win?

[Guest]

how come it says retirement after his last win?

 

 

Not sure. I have seen others have that when they annouce their retirement like Gary Goodrich has it after his Loss to Rizzo. Maybe this guy announced his retirement at that time but went on to keep fighting.

[Driven]

In the U.S., you can circumvent the rule of being 18 to fight in almost every state by fighting on Indian Casinos. The UFC's Michael McDonald was 6-0 as a professional before he even turned 18 (Mike turned pro at age 16). His brother Brad turned pro at age 15. Brad is 18 or 19 now and has 9 fights, I believe.

 

That being said, I don't think you should rush into amateur MMA. Mike and Brad had competed in tons of competitions other than MMA before they turned pro (jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, and some pankration). Not sure of what pankration constitutes worldwide, but in California it's similar to MMA but no head shots, slams, or elbows are permitted. Competitions help you to focus, get used to cutting weight, control your nerves, and control your breathing.

 

I also notice you didn't mention wrestling. I don't know how big wrestling is in Canada, but almost every pro fighter I've trained with who never wrestled in high school has mentioned that as a regret. If you have an opportunity to wrestle, do it. If you don't have wrestling, you'd better have some judo. If you don't have either, you'd better get some. I'd list that as a higher priority than getting amateur MMA experience.

[Guest]

In the U.S., you can circumvent the rule of being 18 to fight in almost every state by fighting on Indian Casinos. The UFC's Michael McDonald was 6-0 as a professional before he even turned 18 (Mike turned pro at age 16). His brother Brad turned pro at age 15. Brad is 18 or 19 now and has 9 fights, I believe.

 

That being said, I don't think you should rush into amateur MMA. Mike and Brad had competed in tons of competitions other than MMA before they turned pro (jiu-jitsu, kickboxing, and some pankration). Not sure of what pankration constitutes worldwide, but in California it's similar to MMA but no head shots, slams, or elbows are permitted. Competitions help you to focus, get used to cutting weight, control your nerves, and control your breathing.

 

I also notice you didn't mention wrestling. I don't know how big wrestling is in Canada, but almost every pro fighter I've trained with who never wrestled in high school has mentioned that as a regret. If you have an opportunity to wrestle, do it. If you don't have wrestling, you'd better have some judo. If you don't have either, you'd better get some. I'd list that as a higher priority than getting amateur MMA experience.

well i would be guessing the seasons over by now because exams is just in 2 weeks but I'll try out next year the most o know about wrestling is from YouTube instructional videos and watching the Olympics. i also do have amateur experiences in MT & BJJ not a lot but I've had a couple fights in each and i have been i TKD tournaments but i know those don't mean to much since it was back in 2004.

[Guest]

Experience back when you were 7 years old won't help you much.

 

Just keep competing, training and gaining experience.

[Guest]

Experience back when you were 7 years old won't help you much.

 

Just keep competing, training and gaining experience.

 

 

Agree. I think you have a long way to go before thinking about fighting. You also have to realize most of the fighters get by on physical abilities. You training background doesnt sound like it is ready for a MMA fight and that is not counting what you hvae physcially. There is world class BJJ guys and strikers who wont do MMA because they are not prepared and i have seen Black belts in BJJ who should never fight MMA because they are not athletic or tough enough. At the saem time there are tough guys who are strong who can fight with little skill and do decent. If you are this type you will do ok at the start but run into a wall and be to late to go back and get that training. If you are the first type you might take a beating early and be to gun shy to try it again when you are more prepared. Train at an MMA gym and spar with real fighters. The problem is fighting is like sex. Every guy thinks they are good at it. This was the case with the TMA guys is the old UFC. They believd what they did worked and they were badass'. They got a rude awakening. It seems you might be training in small circles with you relative as you Thai coach. You need to join a large gym with real fighters and see where you stack up before doing something that it seems you are not prepared for. Like i said the guy i knew was a very strong guy who was a Adult purple belt. He wasnt ranked as a kid he was trainign with and beating adults who were blue and purple belts under Jorge Gurgel. He was state champion level wrestler with good strikign power. This is what you could run into. Wrestling is the most important base in MMA and you dont seem to have any yet. This is what you should be focusing on. If not every person you fight will be able to force the fight to their strengths. It will go where they want where they have the advantage every time. It isnt easy to submit people from the bottom in MMA.

[Guest]

Agree. I think you have a long way to go before thinking about fighting. You also have to realize most of the fighters get by on physical abilities. You training background doesnt sound like it is ready for a MMA fight and that is not counting what you hvae physcially. There is world class BJJ guys and strikers who wont do MMA because they are not prepared and i have seen Black belts in BJJ who should never fight MMA because they are not athletic or tough enough. At the saem time there are tough guys who are strong who can fight with little skill and do decent. If you are this type you will do ok at the start but run into a wall and be to late to go back and get that training. If you are the first type you might take a beating early and be to gun shy to try it again when you are more prepared. Train at an MMA gym and spar with real fighters. The problem is fighting is like sex. Every guy thinks they are good at it. This was the case with the TMA guys is the old UFC. They believd what they did worked and they were badass'. They got a rude awakening. It seems you might be training in small circles with you relative as you Thai coach. You need to join a large gym with real fighters and see where you stack up before doing something that it seems you are not prepared for. Like i said the guy i knew was a very strong guy who was a Adult purple belt. He wasnt ranked as a kid he was trainign with and beating adults who were blue and purple belts under Jorge Gurgel. He was state champion level wrestler with good strikign power. This is what you could run into. Wrestling is the most important base in MMA and you dont seem to have any yet. This is what you should be focusing on. If not every person you fight will be able to force the fight to their strengths. It will go where they want where they have the advantage every time. It isnt easy to submit people from the bottom in MMA.

Well i would consider my self pretty athletic i can nearly run a 4 40 (40 metres i 4 seconds i do it in 4.4) my gym is nearly all grown men and since my uncle owns the gym he goes even harder on me so it does not seem like i am getting special treatment and i am on most school teams. that being said i also have had a couple MT & BJJ fights before as i won the kombat arts MT tournament and came in second in provincials cause the other fight was basically taking me down like we were wrestling and the ref was not doing anything about it. & in BJJ i have been in a couple local tournys were i came in 4th and lost twice in the first to rounds. and the only reason i mentioned the TKD tournys is because i stopped training TKD at 9. but i am supposed to have a BJJ tourney coming up soon. But the thing i dont get is why wouldn't you sanction amateur mma under the age of 18 isn't the point of an amateur level of a sport was to train and build young fighters for the futer?

[Guest]

Well i would consider my self pretty athletic i can nearly run a 4 40 (40 metres i 4 seconds i do it in 4.4) my gym is nearly all grown men and since my uncle owns the gym he goes even harder on me so it does not seem like i am getting special treatment and i am on most school teams. that being said i also have had a couple MT & BJJ fights before as i won the kombat arts MT tournament and came in second in provincials cause the other fight was basically taking me down like we were wrestling and the ref was not doing anything about it. & in BJJ i have been in a couple local tournys were i came in 4th and lost twice in the first to rounds. and the only reason i mentioned the TKD tournys is because i stopped training TKD at 9. but i am supposed to have a BJJ tourney coming up soon. But the thing i dont get is why wouldn't you sanction amateur mma under the age of 18 isn't the point of an amateur level of a sport was to train and build young fighters for the futer?

 

Yes it is to build young inexperienced fighters. Gys with litte training and new to fighting. Not Kids or teenagers.

 

 

 

I was not trying to put you dont. What i was trying to get at is tis for example. You said you came in 4th in BJJ. OK here is where stuff like that is misleading and doesnt prepare you for what you get in MMA. Each tournament is different. But i will use NAGA for example as my brother competed in it and i know about how it works. My brother placed second because he lost on points to a guy 100+ lbs more than him who sprawled a takedown and stayed in top position for the rest of the time. But here is why it doesnt mean much. BJJ has so many class' that everyone is broken down into age, skill, weight, training time, location, etc. NAGA during the Arnold Classic weekend is a huge Tourny. But it is still just East Coast USA. He was in SHW with less than 2 years training under 35(around there) years old. In MMA he wouldnt have been protected from the other BJJ divisions. The weight class' are less diverse in MMA and the fighters ussually come from further away. You also have guys who can cut a lot of weight that they cant do in BJJ due to weigh in factors. So in theory you could get the 3 guys who placed above you. All the guys in the weight class or two above you. All the guys in the higher skill levels above you who could possible put you in a bad position and be a bad match up. Then you got other styles too. If you were of age i would say go for it and fight. But being under age i dont thi nk it would be wise. The biggest part of MMA that few people pay attention to is match making. Lots of the guys from my gym were fighting their first fights on cards ran by a friend in their gym. Or a friend of a friend. Basically lots of times they were given a good match up to get their feet wet. There wasnt much chance they would drop a beast because someone was looking out for their best interest. Lots of times guys in my gyms first fight is verses a karate guy, pure wrestler, or a crappy BJJ guy from a school out in the backwoods somewhere. If you dont have anyone you train with putting on a Event then you are more than likely going to be fed to some beast that is friends with the promoter. Styles make fights and they have control over what style you get. In your situation i think it is a bad idea. Whats the rush anyway? If you rush in and things dont go well it could follow you your entire career. You risk getting off on the wrong foot.

[Guest]

Yes it is to build young inexperienced fighters. Gys with litte training and new to fighting. Not Kids or teenagers.

 

 

 

I was not trying to put you dont. What i was trying to get at is tis for example. You said you came in 4th in BJJ. OK here is where stuff like that is misleading and doesnt prepare you for what you get in MMA. Each tournament is different. But i will use NAGA for example as my brother competed in it and i know about how it works. My brother placed second because he lost on points to a guy 100+ lbs more than him who sprawled a takedown and stayed in top position for the rest of the time. But here is why it doesnt mean much. BJJ has so many class' that everyone is broken down into age, skill, weight, training time, location, etc. NAGA during the Arnold Classic weekend is a huge Tourny. But it is still just East Coast USA. He was in SHW with less than 2 years training under 35(around there) years old. In MMA he wouldnt have been protected from the other BJJ divisions. The weight class' are less diverse in MMA and the fighters ussually come from further away. You also have guys who can cut a lot of weight that they cant do in BJJ due to weigh in factors. So in theory you could get the 3 guys who placed above you. All the guys in the weight class or two above you. All the guys in the higher skill levels above you who could possible put you in a bad position and be a bad match up. Then you got other styles too. If you were of age i would say go for it and fight. But being under age i dont thi nk it would be wise. The biggest part of MMA that few people pay attention to is match making. Lots of the guys from my gym were fighting their first fights on cards ran by a friend in their gym. Or a friend of a friend. Basically lots of times they were given a good match up to get their feet wet. There wasnt much chance they would drop a beast because someone was looking out for their best interest. Lots of times guys in my gyms first fight is verses a karate guy, pure wrestler, or a crappy BJJ guy from a school out in the backwoods somewhere. If you dont have anyone you train with putting on a Event then you are more than likely going to be fed to some beast that is friends with the promoter. Styles make fights and they have control over what style you get. In your situation i think it is a bad idea. Whats the rush anyway? If you rush in and things dont go well it could follow you your entire career. You risk getting off on the wrong foot.

well thats true i see were you coming from thanks for the advice. but back to amateur mma why dont they just were shin pads and head gear then for the younger ages?

[Guest]

Head gear in a sport that allows chokes sounds like a spectacularly bad idea.

[Guest]

Head gear in a sport that allows chokes sounds like a spectacularly bad idea.

then add a couple hybrid rules like no elbows at all and no knees to the head and no chokes.

[Guest]

Then you might as well put on a gi jacket and go compete in combat sambo or something..

[Guest]

Then you might as well put on a gi jacket and go compete in combat sambo or something..

no in amateur MT in canada we have no elbows and no knees to the head then i took your suggestion of chokes being a bad idea with head gear and added that and its not that bad since i swear i heard pancrees has no chokes (dont qoute me on that cause im not sure) and some BJJ tournys ban chokes for people under a surtaint age

[Guest]

Or you could just listen to your coaches and wait.

[Guest]

Or you could just listen to your coaches and wait.

if you read all my post in full you would know that i said i would wait but the reason i stated that thing about the rules is because i think it would be good for building young talent you just need to adjust the rules.

[Guest]

You can't really do that though, as re adjusting the rules for minors would kill the art of MMA. What I mean is

-no striking on the ground would be allowed (body in a prone position with the floor under them is deemed too dangerous)

-bjj would be semi obsolete as headgear, bigger gloves and any pads you wore would massively impair any technique (couldn't use MMA gloves as they don't have enough padding)

-headkicks and elbows wouldn't be allowed due to it being deemed too dangerous for a minor to do (cutting out the muay thai aspect)

-slams and spikes wouldn't be allowed in case of trauma from impact (ruling out parts of wrestling)

 

This may be slightly different country to country, but will be the basis for most sanctioning bodies. You'd probably do more harm than good practising that as opposed to the individual skills, though with the UFC operating a lot of MMA gyms that encourage kids it may change in the future

[Guest]

^

[Guest]

You can't really do that though, as re adjusting the rules for minors would kill the art of MMA. What I mean is

-no striking on the ground would be allowed (body in a prone position with the floor under them is deemed too dangerous)

-bjj would be semi obsolete as headgear, bigger gloves and any pads you wore would massively impair any technique (couldn't use MMA gloves as they don't have enough padding)

-headkicks and elbows wouldn't be allowed due to it being deemed too dangerous for a minor to do (cutting out the muay thai aspect)

-slams and spikes wouldn't be allowed in case of trauma from impact (ruling out parts of wrestling)

 

This may be slightly different country to country, but will be the basis for most sanctioning bodies. You'd probably do more harm than good practising that as opposed to the individual skills, though with the UFC operating a lot of MMA gyms that encourage kids it may change in the future

that makes no sense gloves are not primarily made to protect your opponent its to protect the fighter punching from breaking parts of his hand. why would you cut slams if the have it in amateur wrestling there is no reason to not have it here. same with head kicks if 7 year olds can do it in muay thai with the same amount of padding (shin pads and head gear.) then people with maybe like a 14 year old age limit should be able to do it and you cant even do spikes in pro mma so thats not a problem. elbow are not allowed i can understand that. But why not punches on the ground maybe not to the head but even thats over kill. and if you are good enough at bjj you will be good enough to preform while wearing anything.

[Guest]

that makes no sense gloves are not primarily made to protect your opponent its to protect the fighter punching from breaking parts of his hand. why would you cut slams if the have it in amateur wrestling there is no reason to not have it here. same with head kicks if 7 year olds can do it in muay thai with the same amount of padding (shin pads and head gear.) then people with maybe like a 14 year old age limit should be able to do it and you cant even do spikes in pro mma so thats not a problem. elbow are not allowed i can understand that. But why not punches on the ground maybe not to the head but even thats over kill. and if you are good enough at bjj you will be good enough to preform while wearing anything.

 

 

That is true about the gloves but the general public doesnt realize that so it doesnt factor in. It is actually safer to fight bare knuckle but that isnt the perception people have so they require gloves. The perception is bigger gloves are safer and that is the logic that is used even though it is wrong.

 

Slams are not allowed in wrestling. From the NCAA rule book.

 

"5.8.3 Slam. The term “slam” is interpreted as lifting and bringing an

opponent to the mat with unnecessary force. This infraction may be

committed by a contestant in either the top or bottom position on the mat

and during a takedown. When a contestant lifts the opponent off the mat

and brings that wrestler to the mat with excessive force, a slam shall be

called without hesitation after the situation occurs."

 

 

Kids use head kicks with Shin guards. You cant do MMA wearing shin guards. It would be hard to sprawl a takedown. It would affect hold guard on someone with them on and make submissions holds very hard to do and cause you not to be able to escape knee bars. Head gear would back it impossible to escape chokes especially Guillitine chokes. There is no way to slip you head out when you head is the size of a bobble head doll. You are stuck.

 

Here is a knee bar from Pancrase where they wore Shin guards.

 

 

There is no chance of slipping out. Also keep in mind lots of people dont count Pancrase as MMA and it ddint prepare those guys for MMA or at the time NHB.

 

You cant prepare for MMA by doing something that will teach you bad habbits. BJJ instructors try to convience people they need to train in a GI claiming it makes your BJJ better even for fighting. Wether it does or doesnt doesnt matter. You start to defend on it and use it and you cant do that in MMA. So almost every fighter has abandoned the GI and have for many years. Lots of Sport BJJ guys are completely lost without the GI to hold on to. The same would be the case in a watered down kids MMA where nothing was like the real thing and the outcomes are solely effectly by the rules. There would be little competition to it because the equipment and rules would not allow us to know who would win under real MMA rules. What you would have is a wrestling match where all fights are won by decision because the rules punish any attempt to actually finish your opponent.