Hide Primaries

[sabaton]

Is there some sort of real MMA list where we can see an exact boxing-wrestling-MT skill level for an MMA fighter?

 

No

 

People can guess. Mostly that guess derives from what a fighter does in the ring, or past accolades like a grappling or boxing championship. Beyond that, it is all about what fighters do in the ring.

 

In and of itself, i think they should be completely hidden. Period. Perhaps keep the BJJ belts because that actually exists in real life and is something that can be seen by all.

 

 

Barring completely hiding them, alternatives would be:

 

1. Grade them like belts. Where the skill shown is for a range. Not just a new name for elite/remarkable.

Give the level rangrs different names, like Golden Gloves for high end boxing, olympic wrestler for wrestling, and im not sure what MT would use.

 

2. Hide the skills, but provide a generic style name based on overall points in each category.

So if a fighter has high boxing, punches, strike d, call him a boxer. Add kicks, kickboxer, add clinch, MT Grappler. High wrestling and gnp, Ground Fighter. High BJJ and subs, a submission specialist. If everything is about even, a generalist. You can also do combos like boxer wrestler if he has high punches and gnp.

I would argue that the secondary skills be used for this and not primaries because you can have high wrestling and takedown D, but you wouldnt be classified a wrestler. Sort of like Chuck Liddel. His background was wrestling, but you wouldnt call him that because all he did was kick box.

 

3. Use fighter stats to determine what is shown on the fighter page.

The code would look at the attempts of each attack style, plus success rate (compared to opponents defense), and also include boosters for punch kos, clinch or kick kos, gnp kos and submissions.

It would then look at your numbers compared to everyone else. You need to have the highest boxing skill to be labeled the best boxer in the game. Maybe you are just exceptional boxing and punches, but you have simply had great success landing your shots and knocking people out. You could be the best in the game at that time.

And because the code would look at all stats, this would fluctuate. There could then be great competition in the community to go for that #1 spot in each skill.

The algorithm behind this would be immense so i wont hold my breath lol

 

 

The bottom line is that you dont see skill levels in real life. You have to actually scout your opponent to see what he has done in the past. So I feel that mmatycoon should be set up the same way.

[MichioKaku]

Is there some sort of real MMA list where we can see an exact boxing-wrestling-MT skill level for an MMA fighter?

 

No

 

http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Jon-Jones

 

I think this tells more about a fighter than a number based MT, boxing and wrestling skill level.

 

This says how successful he is in those areas like 95% take down defense, striking defense. It would take looking at ever fight to get that number in game. Striking, where successful striking occurs, 60%standing and 20/20 clinch/ground.

 

Is that not saying he is a 15 on wrestling, 14 on boxing, 14 BJJ? The answer is no. But we know what Bones can do from the description given. We know where the fight takes place when he fights, we know where he is successful. That tells a much bigger story than 14,14,14,Brown. You have no idea from that what that fighter likes to do at all. The only time it may come into play is long periods where you dont fight and only train or early in a career when you either go even(who does that?) or pick strengths and pick 110 in that skill. You may see he is a boxer or wrestler. that imo is the only time it plays any role and i still go back and look at scorecards to see how a fighter does in each area, Standing/Clinch/Ground. When I didn't look I was 5-3-1 and when I started to I haven't lost yet with 10 wins in a row and number 11 in about 7 hours.

 

Example of a nobody where your point is true is here http://www.ufc.com/fighter/devin-clark

But i have to say even then the coaches know something about the opponent. They have had some scouting on the kid. Someone, Somewhere has watched the kid fight and knows his BJJ is really good or he is a solid boxer.or he is super fast or that he doesnt mind being on his back, hates having his back taken, goes for takedown to much(we know that happens here early on...).

 

EDIT: The bottom line is MMATycoon says what a fighter can do. A real scouting report found very easy online say what a fight most likely will do. Far more important.

[Guest]

I agree with this 100% and have said similar in the chat in the past.

 

There is nothing better than when a fighter shocks us all by coming into the cage with new and improved abilities that he didn't have in the past. Here is a little example: Randy Couture had displayed a little bit of comfort punching in his earliest UFC fights, but dominated with his wrestling. When he was booked to fight Vitor Belfort, he admitted that he started taking boxing classes for the first time in his life in order to prepare. In his book, he details how his relative inexperience in real boxing actually made it easy for him to learn to fight a southpaw. So, Randy comes into the ring and surprises everyone with how crisp his boxing looks.

 

In game, all Vitor's manager would have to do is pay attention to the visible skills of Randy Couture to realize that he is heavily training in his boxing to prepare for this bout.

[tnbk1100]

This is true but would make it very difficult in the early game for newer managers dealing with the QFC environment. If a fighter has no fights and you have say 2 or 3, it heavily favors the rookie fighter by giving them a game plan against the guy with a couple fights. Also it makes it much easier or new managers to walk into mismatches in orgs. If a guy lands 68% of his punches it could mean that fighter has a high accuracy slider or could be a stand up beast you couldn't begin to fuck with. It is very important to represent the difference so newer managers aren't walking into mismatches.

[GiankaBonghi]

This is true but would make it very difficult in the early game for newer managers dealing with the QFC environment. If a fighter has no fights and you have say 2 or 3, it heavily favors the rookie fighter by giving them a game plan against the guy with a couple fights. Also it makes it much easier or new managers to walk into mismatches in orgs. If a guy lands 68% of his punches it could mean that fighter has a high accuracy slider or could be a stand up beast you couldn't begin to fuck with. It is very important to represent the difference so newer managers aren't walking into mismatches.

 

This, please read everyone.

[sabaton]

This is true but would make it very difficult in the early game for newer managers dealing with the QFC environment. If a fighter has no fights and you have say 2 or 3, it heavily favors the rookie fighter by giving them a game plan against the guy with a couple fights. Also it makes it much easier or new managers to walk into mismatches in orgs. If a guy lands 68% of his punches it could mean that fighter has a high accuracy slider or could be a stand up beast you couldn't begin to fuck with. It is very important to represent the difference so newer managers aren't walking into mismatches.

What exaxtly is different in the real world when you have a fighter with no fights vs a fighter with a couple of fights?

 

Nothing

 

Fighter B doesnt know what Fighter A is going to do other than to, maybe, scout his training camp.

 

If you cant handle that, then let primaries be seen during the mentee stage. Easy.

 

And your second example isnt very accurate either. Just what fighter are you not going to be able and fuck wirh when orgs would be matching guys of a similar age and id? What does it matter if he lands 68%? Why are you trying to outbox a boxer? Take him down and sub him. This is MMA. And if you are a boxer going against mr 68% boxer, and your age and ids are similar, he isnt going to be a "beast you cant fuck with."

Besides, i gave options to see SOMETHING over your complaint of nothing.

[GiankaBonghi]

This is a game dude, reality is applied only to a certain extent in order to not spoil the fun and the game mechanics.

[sabaton]

Absolutely. But i dont see how hiding primaries or scouting opponents falls into that category. Thanks for the reply, dude.

[GiankaBonghi]

But i dont see how hiding primaries or scouting opponents falls into that category.

 

For the same reasons tnbk1100 explained above.

[sabaton]

For the same reasons tnbk1100 explained above.

To which i already replied, but his post had nothing to do with your last comment.

He did not speak of reality vs game. He spoke of difficulty for noobs.

Thanks

[GiankaBonghi]

He did not speak of reality vs game. He spoke of difficulty for noobs.

 

 

difficulty of noobs = reality check for a virtual game, me and him are talking the same.

[sabaton]

If you dont like option 3, then go with option 1 or 2

You are overly fixated on not liking 1 of 3 options

You still see primary skills with options 1 and 2, just in a different way

[MichioKaku]

The whole premise for the change was "The bottom line is that you dont see skill levels in real life. You have to actually scout your opponent to see what he has done in the past. So I feel that mmatycoon should be set up the same way."

 

I don't disagree wholly that there could be a different system, there is always different ways of doing things but you don't have to scout your opponent IRL. A click of a couple buttons does it but in reality your coaches and other staff do this work for you to come up with a game plan based on the other fighter. They aren't looking at UFC.com to find out but it is still done and not by the fighter except at very very low levels of MMA where you probably go in blind.

 

That being said a n00b period where your primaries are hidden would be good. Say first 2 months? but by your 3-4th fight you either have sacked or kept a fighter and will have some backing from a gym, coaches and possibly a manager type if your a good fighter that got noticed and they would have some scouting done and a game plan by then. After that id be all for a 3 tier system. 1-5, 6-10, 11+(may change if primaries change actually happens) call it whatever, golden glove, all state wrestler or whatever. But an exact amount I believe is to much beyond the n00b learning stage, they should see everything because they need it.

 

As for number 2, I dont think it works at all. People are called kickboxers, sprawl in brawlers and so on based on the past fights. This would call those who use their all state wrestling as a defense, a wrestler when they don't go to the ground often at all.

 

3 is basically like i said in my first post. And 1 is what i pointed out in this post.

 

Being a n00b is hard though. When you got people getting 1 on 1 training and sparing with top people while I am at Cozad's....To not know you are about to fight a future top 10 who has training staff waiting on him daily and you are about to get stomped on is crazy. So maybe limit the current system to QF's only. Which I know a certain someone that has good idea's on n00bs being brought up to speed possibly by a QF computer controlled opponent that gets harder to teach you. That would take out the n00b factor in this for me.

[CusDamato]

I didn't read all the posts but you couldn't just hide them because match making would become impossible for org owners.

[sabaton]

I didn't read all the posts but you couldn't just hide them because match making would become impossible for org owners.

I completely disagree. I think the opposite would happen.

With hidden primaries, matchups would now be based on Hype/Record/Age/ID.

Right now, everyone puts waaay too much stock in primaries and you get a lot of declined fight offers as a result, all because on paper, someone else has higher primaries. Those primaries don't show physicals, secondaries or hiddens, which are just as important. If the org owner doesn't have to worry about that, it makes matchmaking easier, not harder. Book a fighter based on hype, not on semi-arbitrary primaries.

 

But I doubt Mike will just hide them. I think the first suggestion is a good middle ground.

[CusDamato]

I completely disagree. I think the opposite would happen.

With hidden primaries, matchups would now be based on Hype/Record/Age/ID.

Right now, everyone puts waaay too much stock in primaries and you get a lot of declined fight offers as a result, all because on paper, someone else has higher primaries. Those primaries don't show physicals, secondaries or hiddens, which are just as important. If the org owner doesn't have to worry about that, it makes matchmaking easier, not harder. Book a fighter based on hype, not on semi-arbitrary primaries.

 

But I doubt Mike will just hide them. I think the first suggestion is a good middle ground.

I guess you are right now i think of it about orgs. It would be easier for the owner not having to worry about the skill difference. I still think you would have the same problem with declines through people guessing/worrying what the other guys skills are though. Between hiddens, secondaries and physicals thats enough hidden away for me, but i see the logic behind your idea.

[sabaton]

Yeah, you'll still get weenies who won't fight someone with a lower ID, higher age or something. Never gonna get rid of the duckers!

[Guest]

As long as my pa can scout them for me im all for it