Bricks Were Shat In The MMA World Tonite

[Guest]

looks like fedor had a wrong setting for his follow to ground slider

 

Well, i hope fedor can recover from the loss.

 

im still on the fedor waggon.

[jacky67]

this fight looks like Lesnar vs Mir I

[Guest]

Fedor escaped from Crocop's triangle in a very similar way. Same thing on Fedor vs Big Nog 1... But it was from the middle to the end of the fight. They were swet, tired, rocked, etc.

 

This one was at the first 40 seconds. The grip is much worse.

 

He should have kicked the legs, tried the half guard... It was a dumb move... Too much self confidence...

[MirkoAliTyson]

Fedor isn't the old Japan Fedor. There's no juice in the us and with his poor conditioning which is obvious on him he has to finish fights early. It looks like Verdum suckered him in, maybe not, but it was a big mistake of Fedor going into guard of Verdum. Fedor lost some weight, probably to compensate the absence of juice, but imho he would have a tough time with the young and very ready lions like Cain and JDS. Also he could have a tough time with the strength of Carvin and Lesnar. With this last couple years and this shitstorm which strikeforce is, theres apsolutely nothing interesting on the horizont there with Fedor or any other fighter. Verdum vs. Overeem. Completely uninteresting, and what should Fedor do now? Fight Rogers again?

The only interesting and relevant thing would be if Fedor joined the ufc and fought some real competition. Overeem will deflate anyway. It's probably a matter of days, and if not he will be caught, so there is really nothing interesting there.

 

Verdum did great. To do that against a fresh and really agressive opponent is really something, so congrats to Fabrizio.

[ElGeecho]

Are people going to start calling Werdum "The February Revolution"?

[Guest]

if he ever taps out ivan, they might have to label him the Emelianenko Hunter

[Guest]

After sitting back and seeing the process which was used to over hype Pride fighters. Im sure Fedor will stay #1 or be put back after one more win. Thats how the nutpriders did it. When someone loses they dont drop but the guy who won jumps in the rankings. Then you have everyone from one Org over load the rankings and push UFC fighters out. Then when the fighters leave the promotion and fight the real best fighters they get smoked. Look at Prides history. Hunt won 2 spilt decisions in Pride verses CroCop and 205 Wandy. For that he got ranked like 6th and 5th and never dropped out. Even after loses to Fedor and Barnett he didnt drop. Now he has lost 6 fights in a row. It wasnt till Pride died he left the rankings. Hunt was never a top 20 HW. Anyone in KOTC with a ground game would have beat him at any point in his career. The same treatment was used on Yoshida. When Aleks, Sergei, and Werdum would take turns beating each other and the loser would never drop. When werdum lost to Sergei. Sergei was just moved ahead of Werdum. Werdum didnt drop. Same with Aleks. They just kept flip flopping spots. This is why guys like Herring were still just outside the top 10 in Pride yet the guy cant buy a win. You cant use the excuse that"so and so is good so they dont drop".

 

When Gonzaga lost to Couture he droped as he was supposed to. Pride logic says Couture was #1 and Gonzaga was supposed to lose so he stays at #2. Then when Werdum beat him Werdum goes number 2 and Gonzaga goes to #3. Thats how they do it. Mark my words. Over the next 8 months you will see a manipulation of the rankings by "fans" and media. Specifically Sherdog who is paid by Strikforce(you can see their ads all over the site) and given exclusive coverage to show them in the best light possible.

[ElGeecho]

Well, we'll see what happens, but I really don't think Sherdog editors are in the pocket of Strikeforce as you suggest. During "Beatdown After the Bell" TJ said that Brock Lesnar was now the #1 heavyweight in the world. Furthermore, Mike Fridley wrote in the blog that Fedor "arguably (considering the recent slides of Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski) hasn’t won a blockbuster fight in five years."

[Guest]

I hope people laud Werdum rather than criticize Fedor.

[Guest]

Well, we'll see what happens, but I really don't think Sherdog editors are in the pocket of Strikeforce as you suggest. During "Beatdown After the Bell" TJ said that Brock Lesnar was now the #1 heavyweight in the world. Furthermore, Mike Fridley wrote in the blog that Fedor "arguably (considering the recent slides of Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski) hasn’t won a blockbuster fight in five years."

 

 

I didnt mean to suggest Sherdog was being bribed. WHat is happening though is the UFC dont use internet MMA sites much like they used to. Few get press creds. But Strikeforce is still using them exclusively becasue mainstream media isnt attracted to them like they are the UFC. So sites like sherdog get All access treatment from SF, they get more fighter interviews, they are actively involved with SF. Sometimes these small shows even allow Sherdog to stream fights. In the end the better SF looks and the bigger it gets the bigger sites like sherdog get for providing this coverage. Sub conciously they know which side their bread is buttered. Its very hard to make tons of money from SF through ad revenue direct and indirect and make next to nothing from the UFC and stay unbiased. This happened when the UFC banned website press creds years ago and the sites took a anti UFC approach to their write ups and rankings.

[Guest]

I hope people laud Werdum rather than criticize Fedor.

 

 

That probably wont happen. Lots of people wanted Cro Cop to lose when he went to the UFC. But it was mostly because his fans are anoying. Not Cop himself. Cop got some negative heat but i think Fedor deserves more. Fedor put himself above everyone in the sport and the sport itself. HE got special treatment and more money, total control and used his record as a way to manipulate eveyone in the sport. When ever he wanted somethign the fans didnt like he hid behind the M1 brand and they took the blame. It sucks when people get knocked from their pedestol. But its fitting when you put yourself up their to be knocked off.

[Guest]

After sitting back and seeing the process which was used to over hype Pride fighters. Im sure Fedor will stay #1 or be put back after one more win. Thats how the nutpriders did it. When someone loses they dont drop but the guy who won jumps in the rankings. Then you have everyone from one Org over load the rankings and push UFC fighters out. Then when the fighters leave the promotion and fight the real best fighters they get smoked. Look at Prides history. Hunt won 2 spilt decisions in Pride verses CroCop and 205 Wandy. For that he got ranked like 6th and 5th and never dropped out. Even after loses to Fedor and Barnett he didnt drop. Now he has lost 6 fights in a row. It wasnt till Pride died he left the rankings. Hunt was never a top 20 HW. Anyone in KOTC with a ground game would have beat him at any point in his career. The same treatment was used on Yoshida. When Aleks, Sergei, and Werdum would take turns beating each other and the loser would never drop. When werdum lost to Sergei. Sergei was just moved ahead of Werdum. Werdum didnt drop. Same with Aleks. They just kept flip flopping spots. This is why guys like Herring were still just outside the top 10 in Pride yet the guy cant buy a win. You cant use the excuse that"so and so is good so they dont drop".

 

When Gonzaga lost to Couture he droped as he was supposed to. Pride logic says Couture was #1 and Gonzaga was supposed to lose so he stays at #2. Then when Werdum beat him Werdum goes number 2 and Gonzaga goes to #3. Thats how they do it. Mark my words. Over the next 8 months you will see a manipulation of the rankings by "fans" and media. Specifically Sherdog who is paid by Strikforce(you can see their ads all over the site) and given exclusive coverage to show them in the best light possible.

 

i had an interesting ranking debate in chat with your friend bakrupt...i wish you were there, heh.

 

i dont think fedor put himself above anyone in the sport. how did you come to that conclusion? because he didnt go to the ufc? couture tried to leave the ufc...did he try to put himself above the ufc? i dont buy that reasoning. his status was used to get better money and better contracts, but that's how it is with anything. it's the same reason why brock can go into the ufc as a 1-0 fighter and be paid more than 99% of the roster. people use their status to bring in cash or whatever else all the time. fedor earned the right to get some type of special treatment by promoters by finding a way not to lose for so long. whether or not you agree with how good he is or was, it cant be denied that he did have an aura and a record that people found attractive. of course such a thing would be used as leverage. it's how the game works.

 

your argument about rankings is looking about it from today's perspective....that's the problem everyone has. you have to think about it as the time when the best heavyweights in the ufc were arlovski, sylvia, buentello, and eilers. hunt probably wouldve gotten submitted by a lot of guys, but his win against cro cop cant be denied. yeah it was a split decision and a debatable outcome, but the official result is that he won. you cant ignore the end result. it's the same reason why most credible sites kept machida at #1 after his first fight with shogun. we can all think machida lost, but all that matters is that final result in what the judges said. at the time, beating cro cop was probably enough to get you on a rankings list. it's more proof that the heavyweight division was jsut terrible overall at the time if anything. guys flip flopped spots because of how bad the division actually was. people can barely name ten good heavyweights in todays mma landscape(something we saw in chat last night), so imagine how hard it would be to name 10 good ones back then. it isnt a crazy idea to think that guys would not drop far after a loss.

 

and i dont think it would be crazy for fedor to regain the #1 spot if he had the wins to back it up. it will be much tougher due to the ufc having more credible heavyweights at this point, but i think fedor could possibly create an argument if he beat werdum in a rematch, then overeem, and someone else. i would personally say that this drop only drops fedor a few spots due to how long his stay at the top was, but that's just my outlook. obviously werdum moves ahead of him and the winner of carwin and brock will move ahead of him. people have their owns ways of ranking though and that's something that can never have a definitive outcome.

 

as far as sherdog being paid by strikeforce...theyre paying for ad space, yes, but i highly doubt there's any bribery type of thing going on. videogames advertise on game review sites all the time and they still give them shitty ratings, heh. sherdog is owned by crave...crave gets the money strikeforce pays for advertising. sherdog obviously gets some money from that indirectly aswell, but it isnt liek there's some back alley deal going on where it's all shady.

[Guest]

" dont think fedor put himself above anyone in the sport. how did you come to that conclusion? because he didnt go to the ufc? couture tried to leave the ufc...did he try to put himself above the ufc? i dont buy that reasoning. his status was used to get better money and better contracts, but that's how it is with anything. it's the same reason why brock can go into the ufc as a 1-0 fighter and be paid more than 99% of the roster. people use their status to bring in cash or whatever else all the time. fedor earned the right to get some type of special treatment by promoters by finding a way not to lose for so long. whether or not you agree with how good he is or was, it cant be denied that he did have an aura and a record that people found attractive. of course such a thing would be used as leverage. it's how the game works."

 

 

Really? He had an Aura people found attractive? Maybe the 500 nutriders who cling to anyone who wins a few fights. Fact is Fedor is a hoorible drawa nd most people dont know he exist and the fights fans who do dont care to watch him. Brock sells tickets and PPVs. Thats why he gets paid and everyone gets paid. Fedor doesnt and wants not only money but special rules. Fedor did everything possible to show he thinks of himself as being bigger than the sport. You can spin it however you want to make excuses for him.

 

 

 

"your argument about rankings is looking about it from today's perspective....that's the problem everyone has. you have to think about it as the time when the best heavyweights in the ufc were arlovski, sylvia, buentello, and eilers. hunt probably wouldve gotten submitted by a lot of guys, but his win against cro cop cant be denied. yeah it was a split decision and a debatable outcome, but the official result is that he won. you cant ignore the end result. it's the same reason why most credible sites kept machida at #1 after his first fight with shogun. we can all think machida lost, but all that matters is that final result in what the judges said. at the time, beating cro cop was probably enough to get you on a rankings list. it's more proof that the heavyweight division was jsut terrible overall at the time if anything. guys flip flopped spots because of how bad the division actually was. people can barely name ten good heavyweights in todays mma landscape(something we saw in chat last night), so imagine how hard it would be to name 10 good ones back then. it isnt a crazy idea to think that guys would not drop far after a loss."

 

 

 

Did it ever occur to you and others that Cop wasnt that good and being beat by Hunt exposed this? Hunt should have never been ranked in the top 10 based on a split decision. I would also argue the fight should have never been made. Hunt beat someone in essentially a k-1 rules fight as they didnt go to the ground. Thats fight had nothing to do with his rank and abilites in the MMA scene. If Couture chooses to stand with Tony and gets beat. Do we rank James Toney in the top 10? Hell no.

[Guest]

Really? He had an Aura people found attractive? Maybe the 500 nutriders who cling to anyone who wins a few fights. Fact is Fedor is a hoorible drawa nd most people dont know he exist and the fights fans who do dont care to watch him. Brock sells tickets and PPVs. Thats why he gets paid and everyone gets paid. Fedor doesnt and wants not only money but special rules. Fedor did everything possible to show he thinks of himself as being bigger than the sport. You can spin it however you want to make excuses for him.

 

i wont argue his drawing power or any of that. i remember him doign quite well on cbs...so i dont know, heh. either way...i'm not even talking about his drawing power. his status as being the #1 heavyweight and even fighter in the world was enough to make promoters pay him. it was enough for them to treat him differently. that was the point i was making. brock does sell ppv's...never argued that, and that's why he gets paid more. he got paid more because he brought something to the table that others didnt. i think fedor also broguht somethign that others didnt have.

 

Did it ever occur to you and others that Cop wasnt that good and being beat by Hunt exposed this? Hunt should have never been ranked in the top 10 based on a split decision. I would also argue the fight should have never been made. Hunt beat someone in essentially a k-1 rules fight as they didnt go to the ground. Thats fight had nothing to do with his rank and abilites in the MMA scene. If Couture chooses to stand with Tony and gets beat. Do we rank James Toney in the top 10? Hell no.

 

i dont think it exposed cro cop as not being good. i think it was a case of the fight just being a bad matchup for cro cop. he had to fight a guy who was nearly impossible to knock out and had power. if it was a case of cro cop not being good...who are you comparing him to? was he not good compared to justin eilers and paul buentello? explain that aspect to me. if couture was a top 10 ranked fight and james toney managed to knock him out, then yes...i would rank him. randy isn't top 10 anywhere at this point though, so that's out the window. if james toney had to fight lesnar for his first fight and managed to knock him out, youre telling me he isnt ranked? how does that work?

 

how the fight unfolds means zero to me. this is mixed martial arts...if people decide to stand with world class strikers, then that's their decision. is it dumb? yes. if youre a top 10 fighter and decide to do that, it doesnt mean anything to me. it means one guy fought like a moron and lost...but i nthe end, a loss is a loss, no matter how it happens.

[Guest]

If they tried to box with him and his takedown defense wasnt tested i wouldnt rank him. Him winning a boxing match would have no effect of his standing as a MMA fighter verses all styles. I agree with you that Cop was a bad match up. Fact is thought there was probably 10 K-1 guys who could have come into Pride and beat Cop in MMA since he didnt have any other way to fight them. You putting them all in the top 10?

 

Is this your top 15? LOL

 

Hoost

Aerts

LeBanner

McDonald

Hunt

Schilt

Bernardo

Mighty Mo

Abidi

Fedor

Nog

Barnett

Cro Cop

Sergei

Werdum

[Guest]

well if cro cop lost five fights in a row to kickboxers, then he would obviously fall down the rankings. with each loss the win would start to mean less.

 

fighting smart and having an effective gameplan is part of mma. if someone decides to stand with toney when they clearly shouldnt, then that's a hole in their overall game. they can only blame themselves for losing that fight. take sherk for example. we all know he should probably wrestle more, but if he goes otu and tries to box with edgar...then that's on him. ti doesnt diminish the win for edgar rankings wise. in the end, there's still a place on edgar's record where it says he beat sherk, and there's a spot on sherk's record where it says he lost to edgar. there isn't an asterisk that says "*fighter fought like a moron" or anything like that. the only thing that matters to me is the final result. bad matchups and strategy is part of mma.

[Guest]

well if cro cop lost five fights in a row to kickboxers, then he would obviously fall down the rankings. with each loss the win would start to mean less.

 

fighting smart and having an effective gameplan is part of mma. if someone decides to stand with toney when they clearly shouldnt, then that's a hole in their overall game. they can only blame themselves for losing that fight. take sherk for example. we all know he should probably wrestle more, but if he goes otu and tries to box with edgar...then that's on him. ti doesnt diminish the win for edgar rankings wise. in the end, there's still a place on edgar's record where it says he beat sherk, and there's a spot on sherk's record where it says he lost to edgar. there isn't an asterisk that says "*fighter fought like a moron" or anything like that. the only thing that matters to me is the final result. bad matchups and strategy is part of mma.

 

 

See i dont think Sherk refused to wrestling. I think he was being effective with it. Thats why he didnt use it. Same reason he ddint verses Penn. Sherk isnt a top wrestler. He has a fast shot but thats it. He never wrestled in college. So expecting him to blow through everyone even other wrestling is expecting much. As far as being someone with a bad game plan. That happens. IF i dont think the person shows enough skill in the fight i wouldnt rank them. Regardless if they won or not.

[Guest]

well i agree that sherk's wrestling was always overrated. i actually think he didnt use it against edgar because he respected edgar's wrestling, but most people say sherk fought dumb so i just went with that example.

 

anyway...it's just a difference of opinion. everyone has their own way of doing rankings. we cant say anyone is right or wrong. you have your opinion and i have mine...all it is.

[Guest]

Comments like that really make you think the fight was rigged. Then the rematch he destroys Werdum and regains his status after he already made his money throwing a fight.

 

Just saying, just a theory I truely don't think it was rigged but just a thought from reading that comment.

 

 

Don't give me that rigged crap. He lost fair and square. Good fighters lose. It happens all the time. He made a mistake. End of story.

[MirkoAliTyson]

Fedor got the split decision against Mirko only because Mirko was in terrible shape. Fedor postponed the fight and got Mirko caught on his way down conditioning wise. Mirkos coach yelled in the first, or second round "don't let him see you're tired" They had to wake him up with ice before the fight. If Mirko was in great shape Fedor would be ko'd. That's not even a question. What tells me that Fedor is not better then Mirko is that he was in excellent shape, maybe the best in his carrier and still couldn't finnish an oponent in terrible shape. Fedor is now on his way down, because he can't use the juice in usa and he never had a great conditioning. That was always the juice. His body tells a story. You just have to look at it.

For me it's obvious that Mirko is a better fighter and athelete. Oh, and these losts someone was talking about, 3 of them were from Ernesto Hoost, so if you look at Mirkos K-1 record and see 6 losses, it's not like he lost to some chimps. He lost to the greatest kick boxer ever (he was way too young to fight Hoost anyway) and one loss to Mcdonald who is a great kick boxer, 2 were injuries i think. I remember one from Bernardo, who was brutally ko by Mirko earlier.

[Guest]

After sitting back and seeing the process which was used to over hype Pride fighters. Im sure Fedor will stay #1 or be put back after one more win. Thats how the nutpriders did it. When someone loses they dont drop but the guy who won jumps in the rankings. Then you have everyone from one Org over load the rankings and push UFC fighters out. Then when the fighters leave the promotion and fight the real best fighters they get smoked. Look at Prides history. Hunt won 2 spilt decisions in Pride verses CroCop and 205 Wandy. For that he got ranked like 6th and 5th and never dropped out. Even after loses to Fedor and Barnett he didnt drop. Now he has lost 6 fights in a row. It wasnt till Pride died he left the rankings. Hunt was never a top 20 HW. Anyone in KOTC with a ground game would have beat him at any point in his career. The same treatment was used on Yoshida. When Aleks, Sergei, and Werdum would take turns beating each other and the loser would never drop. When werdum lost to Sergei. Sergei was just moved ahead of Werdum. Werdum didnt drop. Same with Aleks. They just kept flip flopping spots. This is why guys like Herring were still just outside the top 10 in Pride yet the guy cant buy a win. You cant use the excuse that"so and so is good so they dont drop".

 

When Gonzaga lost to Couture he droped as he was supposed to. Pride logic says Couture was #1 and Gonzaga was supposed to lose so he stays at #2. Then when Werdum beat him Werdum goes number 2 and Gonzaga goes to #3. Thats how they do it. Mark my words. Over the next 8 months you will see a manipulation of the rankings by "fans" and media. Specifically Sherdog who is paid by Strikforce(you can see their ads all over the site) and given exclusive coverage to show them in the best light possible.

 

STFU

 

First, maybe you don't understand that 10 fucking years ago he lost due to an illegal elbow that cut him open and the fight had to be stopped, and this past Saturday was the first time ever that Fedor tapped out. When your record is 32-2 Fedor can still be considered the best in the world.

 

Second, you do realize rankings are just fucking opinions. Does it really get your panties in a bunch when a bunch of virgins on Sherdog rank Fedor number 1 instead of someone from the UFC??

[Guest]

i told everyone werdum would win.............i got flamed..........now what bitches!

[Guest]

STFU

 

First, maybe you don't understand that 10 fucking years ago he lost due to an illegal elbow that cut him open and the fight had to be stopped, and this past Saturday was the first time ever that Fedor tapped out. When your record is 32-2 Fedor can still be considered the best in the world.

 

Second, you do realize rankings are just fucking opinions. Does it really get your panties in a bunch when a bunch of virgins on Sherdog rank Fedor number 1 instead of someone from the UFC??

 

 

Dont talk about fights you havent seen noob.

[Guest]

Dont talk about fights you havent seen noob.

 

For anyone who hasn't seen Fedor's first loss:

http://rapidshare.com/files/403687063/2000...ka_-_I.mp4.html

 

(EDIT: Apparently only ten people can download it because I'm not a registered member. Just be aware of that.)

 

I've heard that it was only ruled a loss because someone had to move on in the tournament that match was a part of, and due to his cut Fedor couldn't.

 

Anyway:

Werdum beating Fedor is no reason for him to be #1 P4P. Dos Santos having beat Werdum, and Werdum having beaten Fedor, is also no reason for him to be #1 P4P. I don't think this loss is really any reason for Fedor to drop out of it, either.

 

Pound-for-pound lists are pretty bullshit, anyway. Edgar beats Penn by decision and now he's one of the best in the world, pound-for-pound? Bullshit. And most people still had Penn up there, right behind Edgar. Lyoto Machida, even after being smashed by Shogun, is still Top 10?

 

I can't even form a Top Ten P4P list of my own. There's a lot of bias towards size, but then there are small guys with serious skill, like GSP, Penn, and Aldo. But can you really rank any of them above Brock or Carwin? I'd want to, but I can definitely see the argument that Brock and Carwin deserve to be above them out of the fact that if a fight between any one of the smaller guys and one of those two would most likely end up with Lesnar or Carwin winning. Then there is bias towards style. A lot of people look at Carwin's record of first round knockouts and are impressed, but has he faced anyone as powerful and skilled at wrestling as Lesnar? You might want to put Carwin on top because he has the ability to knock out Lesnar, but Lesnar has the ability to keep Carwin on his back.

 

There's just too much to think about.

 

I do find it funny that most people who make P4P lists admittedly take them less seriously than most people who read them seem to, lol.

 

I still think that Fedor is one of the best in the world. This isn't some sort of gap in his game, or some fluke. He got caught in a bad position, didn't get out, and then got caught in a sub, because the guy who he was facing is damned good himself. With that being said, I don't know if he deserves to be #1 P4P right now. It's really only because he's coming off of a loss, though. I think his drop in popularity, and in the ranks, is mostly due to Dana's invective. Dana said he wasn't shit and now everyone has reason to believe him - or at least they think they do. I'm not so sure, myself, and I'll be waiting to see Fedor's next fight before I write him off.

[jiggy]

Dont talk about fights you havent seen noob.

Who are you to claim someone hasn't seen a fight? I'm seriously so sick of your "I know more than you about MMA you noob" attitude.