Excuse these nuts: James Toney wants to make an example out of Dana White

[Guest]

Obviously it's hard to "prove" a work/thrown fight without one of the fighters admitting it (as say Sakuraba, Macias and Takada have) . That said there are enough glaring facts that it's possible to draw strong conclusions.

 

1) Mercer has a history of works and trying to arrange them

 

2) The bout was an exhibition but no reason was given. TUF bouts for example are classed as exhibitions to avoid Athletic Commission rules about reporting results. This fight? No reason given. The AC never refused to sanction the bout... they were told it wasn't going to be a "real fight" and thus shouldn't be sanctioned. Why are certain bouts classified as exhibitions? So that the general public are not allowed to bet on the outcome of bouts where the competitors are not attempting to win the contest.

 

3) You can contact the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board to verify the above point in a number of ways:

 

Phone: 609.292.0317

Post: The New Jersey State Athletic Control Board

25 Market Street

1st Floor, West Wing

PO Box 180

Trenton, NJ 08625

Email: By using the form on their website: http://www.nj.gov/oag/sacb/feedback.html

 

If you're interested in find out more about the bout and why it was not classified as a legitimate contest between two fighters by the most knowledgeable group with regards to the situation NJ SACB have made it very easy for you to contact them and find the details.

 

 

 

 

I could careless why it wasnt sanctioned. That dont make it a work. Both were new to MMA and had no previous fights. It could have been done to preserve their pro records. The "work" excuse dont pass the smell test. When you have a fight with a Boxer vs Street fighter it mnakes sense to call it an exhibition and not a pro MMA fight since neither were MMA fighters. The fight didnt look like a work as most are obvious. The biggest reason is works happen for a reason. There is NO reason for this fight to be a work. Betting sites have low limits on MMA fights. CFFC had nothing to gain by Kimbo winning because neither guy ever fought for them again. Also there is no reason for Kimbos people to pay the amount of money it would take for a guy like Mercer to throw the fight. We are talking at least 20 grand plus. Which they wouldnt do because Kimbo had already been beaten by Gannon.

 

 

Like i said its a outrageous claim. You sound like a bitter boxing fan.

[Guest]

I bet i have watched over 5000 MMA fights over the last 15 years and what i saw in Kimbo vs Mercer was what i expected to see and have seen many times. There was nothing even close to a work. I have never even heard anyone claim this fight to be a work. I suggest you check out the fight i posted above between Goodridge vs Dams. Goodridge is just an experienced version of Kimbo verses a K1 striker. He did exactly what Kimbo did. The fight looked like all fights of that nature look.

[Guest]

Nice find. A kickboxer that couldn't grapple. This was back in the day when the UFC did 5 events a year and Mark Coleman was Pride champ. Skelton didn't have one professional boxing bout under his belt. He wasn't afraid to get embarrased, he was afraid to get hurt. He knew he wasn't supposed to be there in the first place. The same with Lloyd. Of all the perfectly fine arguments there are to show that Toney has little chance against Couture you pick the worst ones. If you're going to think as superficially as that then you might look into the only time in history that a former world champion boxing met a former UFC champ. All that nonsense doesn't mean shit out of context.

 

 

Did i say those fights have anything to do with our discussion? No i didn't. I said why i posted those fight in their post. Go read it again.

 

Here i will help you. "While on the subject of Couture vs Toney. Here is a fight people might like."

[Guest]

Did i say those fights have anything to do with our discussion? No i didn't. I said why i posted those fight in their post.

Aaaaaaand? You're seriously autistic mate. I saw the fights and replied. That's how forums work, if you don't like it then fuck off. The forum isn't made so you can post 3 times in a row and only the people you want reply.

[Guest]

Aaaaaaand? You're seriously autistic mate. I saw the fights and replied. That's how forums work, if you don't like it then fuck off. The forum isn't made so you can post 3 times in a row and only the people you want reply.

 

So i guess you didnt actually say this: "Of all the perfectly fine arguments there are to show that Toney has little chance against Couture you pick the worst ones."

 

Like i said i didn't post those to "show Toney has little chance". So if you dont like my response dont accuse me of shit i didn't do. Just because they didnt help your argument don't mean i had any intentions behind them.

[Guest]

So i guess you didnt actually say this: "Of all the perfectly fine arguments there are to show that Toney has little chance against Couture you pick the worst ones."

 

So I guess you didn't actually say this: I suggest you check out the fight i posted above between Goodridge vs Dams. Goodridge is just an experienced version of Kimbo verses a K1 striker. He did exactly what Kimbo did. The fight looked like all fights of that nature look.

 

Please don't answer. It's not that hard to figure out why you in your lineair thinking chose to post those videos.

[DeadlyDirk]

I'm going to be a little worried for Randy in the first minute or so of this fight, after that though he'll soon be on his back getting pounded on. A few months training in MMA won't make up for the decades of training Randy has put into wrestling. As long as Randy can get close enough to put a hand on him Toney is going to the mat, after that I don't see anyway Toney is getting back to his feet, at least not without taking a whole lot of punishment.

 

My prediction is a Round 1 Submission for Randy by RNC. I just see Toney getting taken down, giving up his back at the first sign of danger and then not being anywhere near prepared enough to defend from there.

 

As long as the fight is standing though and Randy initially tries to move in to start his dirty boxing he'll always be at risk from Toney with the level of boxing we've yet to see in MMA. He may just shoot straight in for a double leg to avoid being in striking range for too long but my guess is that's the one thing Toney will be looking out for more than anything, whether or not he can stop it still is another thing though.

 

Interesting fight that's for sure, if Randy doesn't win we'll never hear the end of it!

[Guest]

So I guess you didn't actually say this: I suggest you check out the fight i posted above between Goodridge vs Dams. Goodridge is just an experienced version of Kimbo verses a K1 striker. He did exactly what Kimbo did. The fight looked like all fights of that nature look.

 

Please don't answer. It's not that hard to figure out why you in your lineair thinking chose to post those videos.

 

 

Of course you dont want me to answer haha. So me comparing Goodridge fight to Kimbos in your world is me comparing the same fight to Couture. LOL OK.

[Guest]

I'm going to be a little worried for Randy in the first minute or so of this fight, after that though he'll soon be on his back getting pounded on. A few months training in MMA won't make up for the decades of training Randy has put into wrestling. As long as Randy can get close enough to put a hand on him Toney is going to the mat, after that I don't see anyway Toney is getting back to his feet, at least not without taking a whole lot of punishment.

 

My prediction is a Round 1 Submission for Randy by RNC. I just see Toney getting taken down, giving up his back at the first sign of danger and then not being anywhere near prepared enough to defend from there.

 

As long as the fight is standing though and Randy initially tries to move in to start his dirty boxing he'll always be at risk from Toney with the level of boxing we've yet to see in MMA. He may just shoot straight in for a double leg to avoid being in striking range for too long but my guess is that's the one thing Toney will be looking out for more than anything, whether or not he can stop it still is another thing though.

 

Interesting fight that's for sure, if Randy doesn't win we'll never hear the end of it!

 

 

Good post. But according to Steeve Toney wont give up his back and wont tap. I guess Randy can only win by Front Naked Choke.

[Guest]

Of course you dont want me to answer haha. So me comparing Goodridge fight to Kimbos in your world is me comparing the same fight to Couture. LOL OK.

Couture vs Toney isn't of the same nature? Then why did you post those videos in the first place?

 

Good post. But according to Steeve Toney wont give up his back and wont tap. I guess Randy can only win by Front Naked Choke.

I never said that he won't give up his back, but I believe there's a big chance that he won't tap when caught in a choke. I don't see where you're going with this or what it has to do with this topic. You're without a doubt the most egocentrical, simplistic and close-minded person I've met on a forum. Whenever somebody posts something that isn't conform with your own opinion you start an endless ramble trying to debunk it with all the rational you can find, no matter how unrelated it often is. At the same time you take on an awfully low standard for your own argumentation and assume absolute immunity of any critique possible. I think it's pretty damn hard to be more close minded and harder to argue against than you, no matter how right or wrong you are.

[DeadlyDirk]

It's natural reaction to try and avoid getting hit, Toney himself is one of the most elusive boxers in the sport and is an expert at it. As soon as he is on the ground taking punches he'll try and get away from it, whether or not he feels he can take it doesn't matter. I can just see Randy opening the door letting Toney give up his back before he's even realised he's done it and then Randy working for a RNC which won't take long. After that he can refuse to tap all he likes, he'll end up going to sleep.

 

Make no mistake about it though, as long as the fight is standing, Toney is an overwelming favourite and for Randy to take him down he has to get into striking range at some point.

 

I'm certainly excited for the fight, I always liked Toney as a fighter but listening to him/trying to understand him recently I can't say I really like him as a person. I'm a huge fan of both sports but I have to pull for Randy. A win for MMA won't hurt boxing, but a win for boxing could hurt MMA.

[Guest]

I want to see mayweather fight in MMA, that would be epic

[Guest]

Couture vs Toney isn't of the same nature? Then why did you post those videos in the first place?

 

I never said that he won't give up his back, but I believe there's a big chance that he won't tap when caught in a choke. I don't see where you're going with this or what it has to do with this topic. You're without a doubt the most egocentrical, simplistic and close-minded person I've met on a forum. Whenever somebody posts something that isn't conform with your own opinion you start an endless ramble trying to debunk it with all the rational you can find, no matter how unrelated it often is. At the same time you take on an awfully low standard for your own argumentation and assume absolute immunity of any critique possible. I think it's pretty damn hard to be more close minded and harder to argue against than you, no matter how right or wrong you are.

 

 

 

I posted the fights because they were of the same nature as the Toney vs Couture fight. Boxer vs Wrestling based MMA fighter. I compared Kimbo fight with Goodridge fight because the fighters were very close and the fights went the same way. I never said and don think the Toney fight will be like those fights. I have said many times Toney has a very good chance. The reason i don't compare those fights to this fight is Couture is much more of a MMA fighter than Gary or Tom and Toney will have more time and better opportunity and reason($$$) to prepare. But at the same time has a style that hurts him in he isn't mobile and will be easy to kick and takedown while Randy is old and has no chin. Te fight could go as the fights above went but the people involved are much different and much more aspects involved. That is my real opinion not something you interjected into my post. The rest of your comments is just covering your ass because you stuck your foot in your mouth.

[Driven]

You are crazy. Your head moving back is what causes concusions. People rarely get knocked out by punches on the ground. People don't try to finish Mark Hunt by punches on the ground because they know it won't work. Toney has been hit a lot harder in boxing than Randy is going to be able to hit him on the ground. Randy should be able to submit Toney, but he's not a submission expert. You don't have to be good at submissions to score at grappling tournaments.

 

Toney is not going to break and I don't think that he's going to tap when getting caught in a submission. I can hear Dana's lights out jokes already.

 

Head moving causes concussions? WTF are you on about? So if I do a backwards somersault, I'll get concussed?

 

Get off the crack. The movement of the head is caused by impact. A greater impact results in more head movement.

 

Randy HAS submissions in grappling tournaments. Do some research. I've submitted bigger, stronger guys than James Toney who had a lot more experience, and I guarantee Randy could submit my ass. Couture does this shit FOR A LIVING. I'm pretty sure he can submit some guy who's been trying it out for the past six months.

[Guest]

You are crazy. Your head moving back is what causes concusions. People rarely get knocked out by punches on the ground. People don't try to finish Mark Hunt by punches on the ground because they know it won't work. Toney has been hit a lot harder in boxing than Randy is going to be able to hit him on the ground. Randy should be able to submit Toney, but he's not a submission expert. You don't have to be good at submissions to score at grappling tournaments.

 

Toney is not going to break and I don't think that he's going to tap when getting caught in a submission. I can hear Dana's lights out jokes already.

 

 

The head moving back isnt what causes a concussion while being punched, its the action of your neck reacting to the blow by stiffening so your brain snaps back and bounces against the front of your skull. It is the acceleration and deceleration of the brain against the inside of the skull that can cause the brain to be irritated and interrupt its function. Now multiply that effect by 100x when your head is inches from a solid object (like the floor of the ring).

 

And have you actually ever watched an MMA fight (other than Mark Hunts fight which apparently you have seen) I can link to many many many fights that have ended because of someone being knocked out after being hit on the ground. I have boxed for many years and have trained MMA for the last 4, while I have never had any professional fights in either discipline I can without a doubt say I have been hit harder with 4 oz gloves/elbows than I have with 16 oz gloves. I am by no means saying that MMA fighters hit harder and if James Toney hits Randy with 4 oz gloves it is lights out for sure, but I have no doubt that Toney will go out if Randy gets Toney on his back and lands a few good elbows/punches. If Toney got in trouble on his feet (however unlikely it is) he would be able to stay calm and work his way out of it. Now if he gets in trouble on his back, he will panic, he will be desperate and he will give up an easy submission. More than likely though he will get pounded out.

 

As far as submissions go its comical that you think that a guy who has done well at major grappling tournaments can't submit AT WILL someone with little grappling training. Hell, I bet Cheick Kongo could submit Toney at will and we all know is ground game is probably the weakest of the heavy weights.

 

I'm not saying this is going to decide what sport is better or whose participants are tougher. This is nothing but a sideshow fight between an out of shape, once great boxer against an MMA legend in the twilight years of his career. But this MMA vs Boxing debate wont end and whatever way this goes idiots will run their mouths about who's the best. All I'm saying is that Toney has no chance unless its standing, and it would take a person with serious blinders on to see anything but that.

 

Now give me Mayweather with 2-3 years of training versus BJ Penn and they we would have a fight, but this fight will just be a stomping.

[Guest]

The head moving back isnt what causes a concussion while being punched, its the action of your neck reacting to the blow by stiffening so your brain snaps back and bounces against the front of your skull. It is the acceleration and deceleration of the brain against the inside of the skull that can cause the brain to be irritated and interrupt its function. Now multiply that effect by 100x when your head is inches from a solid object (like the floor of the ring).

 

And have you actually ever watched an MMA fight (other than Mark Hunts fight which apparently you have seen) I can link to many many many fights that have ended because of someone being knocked out after being hit on the ground. I have boxed for many years and have trained MMA for the last 4, while I have never had any professional fights in either discipline I can without a doubt say I have been hit harder with 4 oz gloves/elbows than I have with 16 oz gloves. I am by no means saying that MMA fighters hit harder and if James Toney hits Randy with 4 oz gloves it is lights out for sure, but I have no doubt that Toney will go out if Randy gets Toney on his back and lands a few good elbows/punches. If Toney got in trouble on his feet (however unlikely it is) he would be able to stay calm and work his way out of it. Now if he gets in trouble on his back, he will panic, he will be desperate and he will give up an easy submission. More than likely though he will get pounded out.

 

As far as submissions go its comical that you think that a guy who has done well at major grappling tournaments can't submit AT WILL someone with little grappling training. Hell, I bet Cheick Kongo could submit Toney at will and we all know is ground game is probably the weakest of the heavy weights.

 

I'm not saying this is going to decide what sport is better or whose participants are tougher. This is nothing but a sideshow fight between an out of shape, once great boxer against an MMA legend in the twilight years of his career. But this MMA vs Boxing debate wont end and whatever way this goes idiots will run their mouths about who's the best. All I'm saying is that Toney has no chance unless its standing, and it would take a person with serious blinders on to see anything but that.

 

Now give me Mayweather with 2-3 years of training versus BJ Penn and they we would have a fight, but this fight will just be a stomping.

 

 

 

Good post. But i have never been a fan of saying give so and so x amount of training. As we have seen for some people all the training in the world dont help much. If you dont have the mind set and other unknown intangibles for a different style then you might not have success. There are many MMA fighters who have spend 10 years training something other than they main style and still suck.

[Guest]

The head moving back isnt what causes a concussion while being punched, its the action of your neck reacting to the blow by stiffening so your brain snaps back and bounces against the front of your skull.

I was talking in context of Driven's claim that the punches on the ground are tougher because your head doesn't move. Your brain bouncing against your skull doesn't happen without your head moving first. Yes, we all saw fight science. If your head isn't moving first, you don't get concusions. People get knocked out on the ground, it's just a lot less common. Not?

 

 

@BrainSmasher, there's nothing getting stuck in my mouth. It's how you act against everybody. Whenever somebody dares to disagree with you it breaks out into an endless post battle, where eventually one has to give up because he can't keep up with your post count/post length. There's no point in arguing with you if you assume such a stubbornly close minded position where nothing anybody says has even a chance of altering your view. You're not interested in an honest discussion.

[Guest]

I could careless why it wasnt sanctioned.

 

So you don't want to find out?

 

That dont make it a work.

 

Not alone obviously.

 

Both were new to MMA and had no previous fights. It could have been done to preserve their pro records.

 

Why? Why would Kimbo not want a win on his record? Why would Mercer, who's been perfectly happy to have his pro-record go 0-2 in kickboxing suddenly wish to have a blank slate on his MMA career? If this is the case then why aren't all fights where both fighters are making their débuts be classed as exhibitions?

 

The "work" excuse dont pass the smell test. When you have a fight with a Boxer vs Street fighter it mnakes sense to call it an exhibition and not a pro MMA fight since neither were MMA fighters.

 

No, it doesn't. Michael Westbrook faced Jarrod Bunch to headline a KOTV event in 2005 and yet that fight (between two former NFL players both making their pro début) was a real fight and was classified as such. Neither were "MMA fighters" but the bout wasn't an exhibition, wasn't called an exhibition and people were allowed to bet on it. In combat sports exhibitions are generally there so fighters can "show off" or "demonstrate technique" without the pressure of winning. That's why the Fedor/Aoki grappling exhibition looked the way it did, why the Coleman/Randleman wrestling exhibition looked the way it did and why Rickson's BJJ exhibitions in Japan looked the way they did. There are exceptions of course... I mentioned TUF and why their bouts are exhibitions... but outside of "they're not MMA fighters" you haven't been able to provide one.

 

The fight didnt look like a work as most are obvious.

 

Really? Saku/Kimo was obvious? Taktarov/Macias was obvious? Both were works/thrown fights. On the other hand Shamrock/Franklin, Eastman/Lutter, Saku/Newton, Gracie/Smith, Imanari/Olivier and, on topic, Kimbo/Bo Cantrellall looked like works but no-one (or at least no-one sensible) accuses them of being worked contests. People who go "that fight can't be a work... because I don't think it looked like one" are what unscrupulous promoters and fighters look for.

 

The biggest reason is works happen for a reason. There is NO reason for this fight to be a work. Betting sites have low limits on MMA fights.

 

So because you can only bet a certain amount it's OK for the fighters to defraud you? The State Athletic Control Board and the Law don't share a similar view.

 

CFFC had nothing to gain by Kimbo winning because neither guy ever fought for them again.

 

Other than if 1 or both of their key fighters, the fighters who were getting them more attention than they'd previously received (or have received since) decided to pull out. Now that would kill CFFC... much like Shine has gone from respected up and coming MMA org to an also ran that may not even put on any more shows due to the fallout of Mayoga/Thomas.

 

Also there is no reason for Kimbos people to pay the amount of money it would take for a guy like Mercer to throw the fight. We are talking at least 20 grand plus.

 

Nice arbitrary number...

 

Which they wouldnt do because Kimbo had already been beaten by Gannon.

 

In a non-MMA fight, that relatively few people who weren't specifically interested saw, years previously and in a result Kimbo's people dispute (due to both sides being fairly liberal with their interpretations of the rules). Immediately after this bout he was signed by EliteXC and was the centrepiece to their promotion... to the extent that when he lost the promotion folded. He was EliteXC... none of their other fighters could draw the ratings he did and, to use his own words, he was getting a lot of "bread" for that. If he'd ended up like Tim Sylvia in his most high profile contest, do you think he'd have made that much money in the future? Let's also remember the accusations around Seth/Kimbo and the monetary offers to keep the fight standing.

 

 

 

[Guest]

Like i said its a outrageous claim. You sound like a bitter boxing fan.

 

Which is why actually reading posts may be of future benefit. I clearly state that I'm an MMA fan. I do enjoy boxing... but I enjoy boxing through my love for MMA. Much like I enjoy K1... but enjoy it because of MMA.

 

I bet i have watched over 5000 MMA fights over the last 15 years and what i saw in Kimbo vs Mercer was what i expected to see and have seen many times.

 

I went through the fallacy of assumed opinion earlier, but I'll also get into this point in more detail later.

 

There was nothing even close to a work. I have never even heard anyone claim this fight to be a work.

 

Well I heard lots of people say that Franklin/Shamrock and Eastman/Lutter were works so they have to be right?

 

I suggest you check out the fight i posted above between Goodridge vs Dams. Goodridge is just an experienced version of Kimbo verses a K1 striker. He did exactly what Kimbo did. The fight looked like all fights of that nature look.

 

And I can post Hunt vs Bobbish, Cro Cop vs Fujita (twice), any of Jeremy Williams MMA fights, Danny Lafever vs. Benji Radach, any of Jerome LeBanner's MMA fights, Mercer vs Sylvia and a half dozen others that shows that "all fights of that nature" don't look the same.

 

Now give me Mayweather with 2-3 years of training versus BJ Penn and they we would have a fight, but this fight will just be a stomping.

 

1) BJ Penn is considerably bigger than Mayweather. Mayweather's best weight is between 140-147lbs and, IIRC has fought at above 150lbs once in his career. BJ Penn on the other hand has fought from 155lbs all the way up to heavyweight (although he was under the HW limit).

 

2) To echo a point BrainSmasher makes, just training for two years doesn't mean someone will become world class... or even competent... at that area. Randleman is a long time MMA vet and yet his sub-grappling is still terrible. Nog has a huge MMA resume and yet his wrestling is still limited. Matt Hughes standup looked better against Renzo... not that that is a huge challenge... but he's still pretty poor at it.

 

We've seen fighters cross over from striking arts to MMA and quickly pick up the skills: Cro Cop is a clear example. We've also seen fighters cross over and have nothing to offer: Leko is another clear example.

 

Boxing has a good cross over story itself. Marcus Davis retired from boxing when it became apparent he had nowhere near the talent to get himself into even low level contention and moved to MMA. There he quickly picked up the skills but it wasn't until 2006 that he really decided to work on his over all ability. Since then, despite being in his mid to late 30's and falling out of his athletic prime, he has 7 submissions in 14 wins and has been able to make himself a top 15-20 fighter in one of MMA's most competitive divisions.

 

We've had a couple of chances top level (if not quite world class) boxers in MMA but unfortunately these have all fallen through. Jeremy Williams was doing well with EliteXC but disappeared from MMA after it's failure. Perhaps the closest was Sean Sherk/Cintron which had the wheels set in motion during one of Mayweather's regular MMA bashing sessions. However Sherk and Dana White never got back to Cintron regarding his response to their challenge.

[Guest]

1) BJ Penn is considerably bigger than Mayweather. Mayweather's best weight is between 140-147lbs and, IIRC has fought at above 150lbs once in his career. BJ Penn on the other hand has fought from 155lbs all the way up to heavyweight (although he was under the HW limit).

 

2) To echo a point BrainSmasher makes, just training for two years doesn't mean someone will become world class... or even competent... at that area. Randleman is a long time MMA vet and yet his sub-grappling is still terrible. Nog has a huge MMA resume and yet his wrestling is still limited. Matt Hughes standup looked better against Renzo... not that that is a huge challenge... but he's still pretty poor at it.

 

We've seen fighters cross over from striking arts to MMA and quickly pick up the skills: Cro Cop is a clear example. We've also seen fighters cross over and have nothing to offer: Leko is another clear example.

 

Boxing has a good cross over story itself. Marcus Davis retired from boxing when it became apparent he had nowhere near the talent to get himself into even low level contention and moved to MMA. There he quickly picked up the skills but it wasn't until 2006 that he really decided to work on his over all ability. Since then, despite being in his mid to late 30's and falling out of his athletic prime, he has 7 submissions in 14 wins and has been able to make himself a top 15-20 fighter in one of MMA's most competitive divisions.

 

We've had a couple of chances top level (if not quite world class) boxers in MMA but unfortunately these have all fallen through. Jeremy Williams was doing well with EliteXC but disappeared from MMA after it's failure. Perhaps the closest was Sean Sherk/Cintron which had the wheels set in motion during one of Mayweather's regular MMA bashing sessions. However Sherk and Dana White never got back to Cintron regarding his response to their challenge.

 

[Guest]

Nice spin there. You name boxers vs wrestlers as fights going differently. Yet you choose strikers who spent a ton of time training MMA and fights that didnt go to the ground. Cro Cop talked trash about MMA while in K1 and spent well over a year preparing for his fight. Even so we saw how scared shitless he was in his "EXHIBITION" with Silva when he hit the ground.

 

Like i said CFFC had no reason to do a worked fight. Kimbo had no reason to pay someone off. You claim "why wouldnt he want a win on his record". My response is why would he pay off someone to lose when he knew he would win?

 

I do agree with you noone should ever discover a work. The ones who are caught do a poor job. For some reason fighters hit each other in sparring but wont take a real punch to sell a worked fight. This is why some works are so obvious like Frye vs Hall 3.

 

With that said there is always a reason for a work. Be it a pro wrestling loving japanese croud who dont care if the fights are fixed, to Oleg and Frye paying someone to lose to save energy in a tournement.

 

You are using far fetched excuses to shoot down reasons for exhibition or why its not a work. One excuse contradicting another. The reason i mentioned the low betting limits on MMA fights is noone in their right might would take a dive for peanuts. Most online sportsbooks dont allow more than a $500 bet on a single fight. It was even more strict back during this fight. Kimbo was the favorite. Why would he pay Mercer off to win $200?

 

Then you claim the Gannon fight dont count because noone watched it. Its funny how his fights online turned him into a house hold name but noone sees the fight he lost. Get real. It was all over the net like the others. Your excuses are not consistant. You claim Elite XC used him as a centerpiece so that means his loss to Gannon wasnt seen or wasnt accepted. Thats BS. People liked Kimbo win or lose. This was proven when he lost to Seth and was still a big ratings grab in the UFC. He lost to Nelson and still drew huge ratings.

[Guest]

Nice spin there. You name boxers vs wrestlers as fights going differently. Yet you choose strikers who spent a ton of time training MMA and fights that didnt go to the ground. Cro Cop talked trash about MMA while in K1 and spent well over a year preparing for his fight.

 

1) How much time did Lafever or Mercer spend doing MMA specific training? A day? 2 days? Less than a week? That's not a "ton of time" by anyone's standard.

 

2) Hunt/Bobbish, JLB/Akiyama, Cro Cop/Fujita 2 (technically their first fight as well, but that doesn't really count) and several of Jeremy Williams bouts hit the ground.

 

3) In fights between someone who's pretty much a pure striker and someone who's either more well rounded or primarily a grappler the fight not hitting the ground generally means one of the fighters has put their gameplan into effect with great success. That's a bad thing?

 

What you appear to be saying is that "All fights of this type look the same. When "this type" is defined as an inexperienced MMA fighter known as a striker getting taken down and pounded/submitted." And yes, you'd be correct in saying that. Well done. All fights where an inexperienced MMA fighter known as a striker gets taken down and pounded/submitted do generally look roughly the same...

 

Even so we saw how scared shitless he was in his "EXHIBITION" with Silva when he hit the ground.

 

I'm beginning to think you're not entirely sure what the definition of exhibition is. Cro Cop/Silva had modified rules... it was not an exhibition bout.

 

Like i said CFFC had no reason to do a worked fight.

 

And other than "they never fought for CFFC again" you've been unable to provide any justification for this. You've provided no convincing reasons why the bout was classified as an exhibition. You're unwilling to take the simple steps to investigate further. I'm starting to see a pattern here.

 

Kimbo had no reason to pay someone off. You claim "why wouldnt he want a win on his record". My response is why would he pay off someone to lose when he knew he would win?

 

And now you put the cart before the horse. I take it Kimbo knew he would win in the same way all fights of this type look the same?

 

Did Tim Sylvia know he was going to win against Mercer as well?

 

No-one told Mercer that...

 

I do agree with you noone should ever discover a work. The ones who are caught do a poor job. For some reason fighters hit each other in sparring but wont take a real punch to sell a worked fight. This is why some works are so obvious like Frye vs Hall 3.

 

Just as an aside, do you think the Globetrotters really are 20,000+ wins to a half dozen losses?

 

With that said there is always a reason for a work. Be it a pro wrestling loving japanese croud who dont care if the fights are fixed, to Oleg and Frye paying someone to lose to save energy in a tournement.

 

I don't recall anyone ever suggest Taktarov paid off anyone. You may want to check your facts... it is generally accepted it was his promoter (Buddy Albin IIRC) who did it without Taktarov's knowledge.

 

You are using far fetched excuses to shoot down reasons for exhibition or why its not a work. One excuse contradicting another.

 

I'm sorry "it didn't look like a work to me" isn't a good reason. Neither are several of the ones you continued to put forward.

[Guest]

The reason i mentioned the low betting limits on MMA fights is noone in their right might would take a dive for peanuts. Most online sportsbooks dont allow more than a $500 bet on a single fight. It was even more strict back during this fight. Kimbo was the favorite. Why would he pay Mercer off to win $200?

 

*Sigh*

 

While works are (in)famous for their connection with betting, especially in other sports, they have far more varied reasons in combat sports. Frye didn't (allegedly) pay off Hall for the extra money in reaching the finals of the UU... he did it so he would be fresh to face Tank. The people (allegedly) paid to throw fights during Foreman's comeback weren't paid off so that Foreman could win money... he was the massive betting favourite anyway. If they were paid off it was so Foreman could keep his comeback going. And Mercer didn't try to arrange a work in the ring because of betting... he did it because he was losing a fight he needed to win if he wanted a crack at Riddick Bowe.

 

Then you claim the Gannon fight dont count because noone watched it.

 

Did you miss the point where the fact it wasn't an MMA fight came up? Or deliberately leave it out?

 

Its funny how his fights online turned him into a house hold name but noone sees the fight he lost. Get real. It was all over the net like the others.

 

Well, let's go by Youtube.

 

The most popular Kimbo vs Gannon clip has just over 306,000 views... which isn't bad.

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type...%2C24&uni=3

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url...v%3DSjv1pn2R25U

 

Which on a simple Kimbo Slice search by view count puts it on page 9 of the results

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type...2C24&page=9

 

In comparison the first few pages are littered with videos of his successful street fights, most with well over a million views...

 

Your excuses are not consistant. You claim Elite XC used him as a centerpiece so that means his loss to Gannon wasnt seen or wasnt accepted. Thats BS. People liked Kimbo win or lose. This was proven when he lost to Seth and was still a big ratings grab in the UFC. He lost to Nelson and still drew huge ratings.

 

Not a big enough draw that CBS were willing to continue with EliteXC...

 

And he was a huge draw with the aid of UFC promoting. UFC promoting that turned Brock Lesnar from getting what, 50,000 buys (at most... the figures are closely guarded) for Dynamite USA to the huge figures he got for the UFC.

 

And if Kimbo had been splattered all over the cage in the way Sylvia was in his (supposed) MMA debut, do you honestly believe he'd still pull in the buys and viewers he did?

 

As I said before, there's a really simple way to find out further information on the bout:

 

3) You can contact the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board to verify the above point in a number of ways:

 

Phone: 609.292.0317

Post: The New Jersey State Athletic Control Board

25 Market Street

1st Floor, West Wing

PO Box 180

Trenton, NJ 08625

Email: By using the form on their website: http://www.nj.gov/oag/sacb/feedback.html

 

The fact that you're willing to spend the time replying here but not the time to contact them directly seems to indicate that you at least suspect that you already know what the answer will be...

 

[Guest]

*Sigh*

 

While works are (in)famous for their connection with betting, especially in other sports, they have far more varied reasons in combat sports. Frye didn't (allegedly) pay off Hall for the extra money in reaching the finals of the UU... he did it so he would be fresh to face Tank. The people (allegedly) paid to throw fights during Foreman's comeback weren't paid off so that Foreman could win money... he was the massive betting favourite anyway. If they were paid off it was so Foreman could keep his comeback going. And Mercer didn't try to arrange a work in the ring because of betting... he did it because he was losing a fight he needed to win if he wanted a crack at Riddick Bowe.

 

 

 

Did you miss the point where the fact it wasn't an MMA fight came up? Or deliberately leave it out?

 

 

 

Well, let's go by Youtube.

 

The most popular Kimbo vs Gannon clip has just over 306,000 views... which isn't bad.

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type...%2C24&uni=3

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url...v%3DSjv1pn2R25U

 

Which on a simple Kimbo Slice search by view count puts it on page 9 of the results

 

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type...2C24&page=9

 

In comparison the first few pages are littered with videos of his successful street fights, most with well over a million views...

 

 

 

Not a big enough draw that CBS were willing to continue with EliteXC...

 

And he was a huge draw with the aid of UFC promoting. UFC promoting that turned Brock Lesnar from getting what, 50,000 buys (at most... the figures are closely guarded) for Dynamite USA to the huge figures he got for the UFC.

 

And if Kimbo had been splattered all over the cage in the way Sylvia was in his (supposed) MMA debut, do you honestly believe he'd still pull in the buys and viewers he did?

 

As I said before, there's a really simple way to find out further information on the bout:

 

 

 

The fact that you're willing to spend the time replying here but not the time to contact them directly seems to indicate that you at least suspect that you already know what the answer will be...

 

 

 

 

 

LOL Back to youtube. The fight with Gannon is only 8 months old. Thats why it only has 300K views while the others which have been online fore over 2 years have millions. The Gannon fight isnt the original and the others are. Dont try to mislead everyone. I am not contacting NJSAC because its a waste of time. How about you contact CFFC, Kimbo, or Mercer and ask why it was an Exhibition? Come on and prove your conspiracy theory.

 

You have not shown any proof of a work. Your claims can be applied to every fight ever done. All you have is an exhibition which you dont know the reasoning behind. Carry on.

[jiggy]

LOL Back to youtube. The fight with Gannon is only 8 months old. Thats why it only has 300K views while the others which have been online fore over 2 years have millions. The Gannon fight isnt the original and the others are. Dont try to mislead everyone. I am not contacting NJSAC because its a waste of time. How about you contact CFFC, Kimbo, or Mercer and ask why it was an Exhibition? Come on and prove your conspiracy theory.

 

You have not shown any proof of a work. Your claims can be applied to every fight ever done. All you have is an exhibition which you dont know the reasoning behind. Carry on.

HAHA you idiot! Can't you see when you've been utterly and without question, PWNED!

 

Pwnage in it's purest form.

 

BrainSmasher could never admit he's wrong, cause he probably thinks the world would end if he did! HAHA