marioufc420 Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Now, we're talking! I've been a proponent of this for a long, long time - and there are numerous threads like this where you can search and see the discussion. Obviously, being a game, we can't be totally realistic - if a fighter doesn't show up, we can't have org owners picking a replacement fighter at the last second; however, if a fighter were to miss weight, instead of a NC, the fight should take place at a catchweight with a fine imposed on the offending fighter, or if the fighter doesn't arrive on schedule, the org owner pays the cost for a one way flight and the offending fighter gets fined and loses energy/morale, etc. Don't get me wrong - I agree Mike shouldn't be bothered with these minor issues, but I also don't believe its acceptable to tell org owners to "deal with it". i would love for this to be put into place, it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Should be able to cancel fights but have to pay the fighters you are canceling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j666 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 if so much emphasis has been put on not signing fighters outside your (org's) locale, why is there not the same emphasis on fighters signing or fighting outside their locale? i don't think it's all on org owners...these fighters know where they need to be and when. 244 fights, most of them outside of my fighters current city and i've got 1 nc that wasn't my fault. oddly enuff, on that nc, my guy flew from tokyo to las vegas but his opponent couldn't make it from nyc. i don't hold it against him, but there's no excuse. he wasn't a rookie, he wasn't inactive and schedulers (which i don't use or trust) and other measures have been taken to prevent them so what happened? was that the org's fault? i don't think so. u can only message so many times and blah, blah, blah. i'm kinda torn on this cuz i agree somewhat with mattyblayze. if ur gonna go out of ur way to magically fix them, then why not magically make them not happen in the first place? save the time, trouble and energy? he had some good penalties added to it to ensure it doesn't promote any...laziness that's going on anyway? lool. on the other hand, i agree with pbr too. i don't think the fighters should just magically appear. i don't own an org tho so it's easier for me to sit the fence and let u guys work it all out. apparently, something needs to be done cuz this seems like a rather major issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I wish I would have known about emailing him about someone who was going to be a no show for one of my events. Not that I have had any n/cs left. I think the best thing you can do is move the n/c fights out of main and co main. It can possibly cause a weaker card, but the n/c would be even weaker. By the way, only reasons I haven't had any n/c are because my org is pretty small and really just starting out. I am really upset that my fighter got stuck in Montreal and missed out on a week of training due to things made to prevent n/c. If n/cs are completely done away with, I think gym owners should get money for members who quit late in the week. They get screwed by the people leaving right before payment is collected, and still have to pay their coaches. I really don't care about the gym thing, and I really do think orgs should have some type of risk. N/C are the risk orgs have. I am not sure what other risk orgs have. They are the only business that makes money out of nowhere. They pull cash from an infinite source of cash. Everyone else pulls from a finite source that is heavily limited by price restrictions. I have never owned a clothing or supplement company. Just a small gym. Their profit options are really, really small. Also, a way to cancel a fight is a great idea. Didn't see who said that. Maybe make it so a fighter who is in the city when the fight is cancelled is still paid if he can make weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegroovemonkey Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 To play devil's advocate... Something that has come up a few times before is NCs in fights due to low blows or inadvertent head-butts, for example. While realistic, this has been shrugged at by many (including Mike) because it it would create situations where there would be occurrences that are detrimental to your fighter beyond your control. How is that any different than a fighter NCing in an org? An occurrence that is detrimental to the org beyond an org owner's control. Is it safe to assume that everyone who has posted in this thread (basically) telling org owners to deal with it would be in favor of adding random NCs due to low blows, and everyone who has posted saying something should be done to give org owners control over NCs would be against this? To play devil's advocate.... If I invest my money in a stock, then I take a risk. I have absolutely no control over what the people running the company do. I gave these people money expecting them to do their jobs and make me money. Out of my control they have failed and I lost my money. Should I be able to ask the government to fix it for me because I took a risk and it didn't pay off? Does it really matter whether or not the government is willing to fix it for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 To play devil's advocate.... If I invest my money in a stock, then I take a risk. I have absolutely no control over what the people running the company do. I gave these people money expecting them to do their jobs and make me money. Out of my control they have failed and I lost my money. Should I be able to ask the government to fix it for me because I took a risk and it didn't pay off? Does it really matter whether or not the government is willing to fix it for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegroovemonkey Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'll see your suicidal smiley and raise you a spider! What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyBlayze Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 To play devil's advocate.... If I invest my money in a stock, then I take a risk. I have absolutely no control over what the people running the company do. I gave these people money expecting them to do their jobs and make me money. Out of my control they have failed and I lost my money. Should I be able to ask the government to fix it for me because I took a risk and it didn't pay off? Does it really matter whether or not the government is willing to fix it for me? I'll see your suicidal smiley and raise you a spider! What's your point? I think that was predicted's elegant way of asking you what your point was. Which, I am assuming, your point is that you are in favor of adding NCs due to low blows and illegal headbutts! I'm starting that thread - I fully expect you to help vote it into favor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceTempleton Posted April 28, 2011 Report Share Posted April 28, 2011 I see both sides of the argument here. On one side why should owners be screwed over if they have done everything within their power to get someone to the right place and were unable to. On the other side if the big orgs are going to continually throw big contracts at fighters outside of their own city and take them away from orgs within that city they need to know there could be consquences up front (like the risk of no shows). I lean more to this side truthfully, but understand both sides. Maybe the penalty to the fighters manager should be made heavier who no showed and the penalty to the org should be lessened a little? Im really not sure though. On a side note - I completely agree with edwardsfan and disagree with gunmetal on Mike's perception of this situation. What I take from reading that quote from Mike is that he odes not want to be dealing with fixing N/C's anymore as they are not programming issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I'll see your suicidal smiley and raise you a spider! What's your point? It was more of an, "oh shit I See what you did there... mind blown" smiley... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 On a side note - I completely agree with edwardsfan and disagree with gunmetal on Mike's perception of this situation. What I take from reading that quote from Mike is that he odes not want to be dealing with fixing N/C's anymore as they are not programming issues. Yet he keeps doing it, maybe its a "programming issue" in that he cant find a better way to deal with them? I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 I think that the main problem with this system is that Mike is the one doing the fixing. There are always going to be little issues like this, and he has better things to do, mainly development. What he should do is appoint some people as moderators, give them specifically defined powers, and put up links pointing people to them for issues like this. They would function just like mods on this forum. To play devil's advocate.... If I invest my money in a stock, then I take a risk. I have absolutely no control over what the people running the company do. I gave these people money expecting them to do their jobs and make me money. Out of my control they have failed and I lost my money. Should I be able to ask the government to fix it for me because I took a risk and it didn't pay off? Does it really matter whether or not the government is willing to fix it for me? This isn't a very good metaphor. As someone who owns stock in a company, you actually can affect the decisions they make. It's called Proxy Voting. You get votes proportional to how much stock you own. You can also show up at the company's general meeting and raise issues. If you own a lot of stock, you can heavily influence policy in more direct ways. Even if you don't own much, you can sue the majority shareholders if their decision defraud you. Finally, the government has stepped in before to get cash to shareholders when companies explode although here the courts are acting as mediators and the money is not coming directly from the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guinepighamster Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 Add option for org owners to pay for flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 having the org owner take control over another managers fighter to put him on a plane is just not even a logical option. sounds like it wasnt really thought out too much. all that is gonna do is increase drama and lead up to abuse from org owners. it seems to me that cancelling the fight like AA suggested is the most logical choice. then if the org owner should be able to find a short notice replacement to step in then that seems pretty much like a real life solution. magical appearances or taking control of other managers fighters arent good ideas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyBlayze Posted April 29, 2011 Report Share Posted April 29, 2011 having the org owner take control over another managers fighter to put him on a plane is just not even a logical option. sounds like it wasnt really thought out too much. all that is gonna do is increase drama and lead up to abuse from org owners. it seems to me that cancelling the fight like AA suggested is the most logical choice. then if the org owner should be able to find a short notice replacement to step in then that seems pretty much like a real life solution. magical appearances or taking control of other managers fighters arent good ideas I disagree... The manager obviously just forgot (or went inactive) and probably wouldn't mind if the org owner was able to fly him out as most managers who have NCed for my org were very apologetic and honestly just forgot or went inactive. The alternative is that the manager purposely wanted to NC, and that's just a scumbag move and, frankly, who cares about those guys? Of course, maybe safeguards can be put in place so this can only be done in the final 24 hours before a fight so it doesn't screw with a fighter's training, but while it wouldn't be my first choice for a fix, its quite logical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 I disagree... The manager obviously just forgot (or went inactive) and probably wouldn't mind if the org owner was able to fly him out as most managers who have NCed for my org were very apologetic and honestly just forgot or went inactive. The alternative is that the manager purposely wanted to NC, and that's just a scumbag move and, frankly, who cares about those guys? Of course, maybe safeguards can be put in place so this can only be done in the final 24 hours before a fight so it doesn't screw with a fighter's training, but while it wouldn't be my first choice for a fix, its quite logical. i disagree.... if the manager forgot to move his fighter, then he most likely forgot to set his sliders as well. the right to send any fighter into a fight that he may not be prepaired for is a bad idea any way you slice it. does seem like a killer recipe for drama though......at no point should an org owner or any other manager be allowed to take control of anybody else's fighter in any situation. if org owners ARE given the ability to move fighters around then gym owners should be given the ability to move fighters around shouldnt they? whats good for the goose is good for the gander isnt it? a no contest to an org is no worse than a useless fighter in a sparring session. are gym owners all the sudden gonna be able to take control of other managers fighters to move them out of sparring and coaching classes? i dont see why there's even any debate to this. the idea of controlling other managers fighters shouldnt even be considered when there's a perfectly realistic option like AA suggested. which is cancelling fights or having alternates of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 i dont see why there's even any debate to this. the idea of controlling other managers fighters shouldnt even be considered when there's a perfectly realistic option like AA suggested. which is cancelling fights or having alternates of some sort. i think the n/c shouldnt be taken into account on rating or outcome but the fighter causing the n/c should lose hype and all just as if he lost --- as for finding alternates this could cause more issues cause you were a org owner couple times its hard to find last minute replacements -- and in situations like this it would be short notice -- a day or so at max 2 days --------- while i do agree i dont want fighters magically appearing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 No I think that is too drastic random NC's, the point I tried to make is when you offer a contract at the top it says: Note: book fighters from your own location when you're starting up. Fighters do not magically appear in your event location come fight time so if they're in another location, they'll have to fly over (which costs a lot of money). That costs money so make sure the fighter can afford it and that the manager knows he will need to fly the fighter out come fight time. Its a clear warning, imo. I take Matty's opinion on board, and I hope Matty you see my point also that an org owner has to shoulder the blame also. I think this is a great discussion and thus far has remained peaceful. How long will it last. This is actually kinda weird, because before today I never even thought of approaching Mike with such a request,. BUT I had a fighter accept a fight then release him to FA. Now this fighter normally trains away from Hilo where I hold my events. So am I expected to just deal with this? Or what about a manager that goes inactive for something that unexpectedly pops up IRL, and can't get online in time to have his fighter travel from where he trains to where he normally fights. People seem to be forgetting that lots of times you will sign a guy based in the same city as your events, and then that manager moves him away to get training in a friends gym, or an alliance gym etc etc so to say it is entirely on the org owner for signing people away from their normal home base is a bit of a broad stroke I think. I think the auto move would be perfect, and it would get rid of the oh crap I didn't move my fighter in time sorry about that! line. I also agree with the catch weight clause Matty pointed out, because this has happened a few times in my org over the course of 60 events. There is absolutely nothing you can do as an org owner in this scenario as well, and that's just the facts. It does suck for the opponent that made weight, and got to the right location on time to fight. Especially if that fighter did pay to travel to the proper city from where he trains then he's out the expense as well as his potential win and all the gains that go along with that win. That's just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrash Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 A no contest due to a fighter not flying into a city is just stupid and completely unrealistic. Not making weight sure, but when is the last time BJ Penn forgot to book a flight to Vegas for a main event? It would never happen. Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 A no contest due to a fighter not flying into a city is just stupid and completely unrealistic. Not making weight sure, but when is the last time BJ Penn forgot to book a flight to Vegas for a main event? It would never happen. Never. bj penn has obviously got an active dependable manager could joe blow fighting in a poe dunk org in little rock, arkansas miss a fight do to transportation issues? i believe that he could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 bj penn has obviously got an active dependable manager could joe blow fighting in a poe dunk org in little rock, arkansas miss a fight do to transportation issues? i believe that he could my thoughts exactly. also, fighters get sick and stuff. there was a MRSA infected fighter just a week or so ago in a big name event that was pulled due to the infection. maybe thats why he didnt fly out. jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2011 Report Share Posted April 30, 2011 how about adding an option to org owners to "fine" fighters who have NC due to not being in the right city. 20% of purse for next fight or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CusDamato Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I will be honest here and say i have asked mike to do this for me when i had an org but i am also against it. i just don't even see why we have a fly feature when if someone doesn't make it they can be moved by mike. I know if i was to forget to fly out and came back and my fighter had been moved and fought without me changing my sliders i would be pissed, in 200 fights most of which were out of the fighters city i have 1 NC and it wasn't even cause by me. there is a punishment for NC's now so why don't we just let the people that NC get punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I just got my first NC due to an opponent not showing up and it's pretty annoying. What if the fighter gets automatically moved to the city an hour before the fight at a steeper than usual energy cost? That way Mike won't have to waste his time doing it manually. Qrash is right that this sort of thing just doesn't happen in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CusDamato Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I just got my first NC due to an opponent not showing up and it's pretty annoying. What if the fighter gets automatically moved to the city an hour before the fight at a steeper than usual energy cost? That way Mike won't have to waste his time doing it manually. Qrash is right that this sort of thing just doesn't happen in real life. what is the point of being able to fly at all then if it happens automatically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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