jacky67 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 All religions in the world are about peace , then some others guys try to changed it and used it to convince some fools to make some war , I was thinking to write something and really struggle to explain it correctly then i see mannetosen post like he told it's all about mass manipulation . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIghFive Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 All religions in the world are about peace , then some others guys try to changed it and used it to convince some fools to make some war , I was thinking to write something and really struggle to explain it correctly then i see mannetosen post like he told it's all about mass manipulation . And the dumber one is, the easier he is to be manipulated into doing idiotic despicable things, in the name of some belief in some nonexisting god or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I am not religious but I would never try and convince someone who is religious to become an athiest. I think it's better to be religious, it makes life a lot easier. I don't like evangelical religion which goes directly against e.g. evolution though. I had some Jehovas Witnesses wake me up the other day and thrust a ridiculous leaflet about creationism into my hands. I spent a couple of hours reading through it and it was flat out incorrect from front cover to back. So whilst I will never have a problem with religion as a concept, it does annoy me when Dorothy from Macclesfield tries to tell me evolution doesn't exist, as if she knows more about paleontology than a paleontologist. I agree that people would find something to fight about if there wasn't any religion too. Though I think there is a difference if there is no heaven... you're not so likely to die for X if you don't think there's a heaven. It doesn't mean you're less likely to kill though, so there are pros and cons to either side. Specifically relating to MMA, I think we should be grateful to religion. It gives people peace of mind before stepping into a cage "knowing" that if they die they'll be OK. I know hardly any MMA fighters that are atheists. I asked Jordan Breen once and I think he came up with one, plus Dana White. As for my own belief about religion, it seems to just be people's best estimate of the world around them, at the time the teachings were written. If you read Genesis, it's just someone's best estimate of how the world works, written by someone who doesn't know how the world works. "and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night." OK, if you don't know that we're on a massive ball of molten rock spinning around a nuclear fusion reactor 93 million of miles away, it makes sense to assume that light and dark are two different concepts created by or controlled by some god. And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; he made the stars also. Same goes for this. They couldn't know the light from the moon was a reflection from the sun, so they assume it's an independent source of light, which is a perfectly reasonable assumption if you don't know any better - an assumption any of us would make if we didn't know any better. As for the stars, we only knew for sure that there was more than one galaxy in about 1915ish, so you can't expect someone 2000 years ago to understand how stars are formed. “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” So the assumption here was that the blueness of the sky was because there was water up there. Again, that's a perfectly reasonable explanation if you know no better. People hadn't flown. There was no concept of outer space, so what was up there? Well it rained, so it must be water. Again, reasonable assumption. Anyway, you can go on... Let me just give one more quick example. The geologist who found that granite was an igneous rock, so was formerly a liquid, was accused of blasphemy because God created granite as the bedrock of the earth. My point is, until you find proof of something, you can't begrudge someone for trying to make sense of it. That's all religion was, when religions were being formed. Whether the earth is on the back of a giant turtle and that turtle is on the back of another turtle, all the way to infinity, or it's God creating man from dust and woman from a rib, it's all just people trying to make the best sense of what they see around them. Obviously where religion becomes silly is when it actively avoids new information. I don't hope that science replaces religion but I do hope that religious people avoid fighting with science because at the end of the day, science is just doing what religion used to do; try and understand what's going on in the world around us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Religion is the root of all Evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Religion Is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration- - Courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Disclaimer: I am not a religious man. I do however get very cranky when I see intellectually challenged lemmings spout ignorant bullshit because they blindly waddle in the footsteps of others. What is my ignorant bullshit? I've always been against religion but now I have more information to back it up religion is what it is if you choose to see the good side of it go right ahead but do not say I'm blindly waddling...when in truth I'm speaking out against false literature and preaching that is used for evil and if you say well religion does good things too you'd be right in some ways but surely you can see that we'd be better off without it. Making threads bashing anything is stupid, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I'm replying off of an iPod that's why I can't quote you and then reply it's just kinda off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Religion Is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration- - Courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth. What do you know about truth ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Your ignorance starts with making the assumption that religion is the cause, and not just the convenient excuse, of evil. People kill each other over wealth, power and hatred. Whether they blame religion or weapons of mass destruction is completely irrelevant. I don't think we'd be better off without it because believing is basic human instincts (or a memetic mutation gone wrong, if my memory of Dawkins serves me right), and I fail to see why I should force people do live the way I do or believe in what I do just because I disagree with them. Forcing your belief system down someone's throat is stupid, counter-productive and plain wrong, in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I'm not forcing anything down anyones throat I'm calling it how I see it...your weapons of mass destruction post made me laugh because George W. used both God and weapons of mass destruction to invade...how does that not piss you off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I'm not forcing anything down anyones throat I'm calling it how I see it...your weapons of mass destruction post made me laugh because George W. used both God and weapons of mass destruction to invade...how does that not piss you off? And how you see it =! how other people see it, you know. Respect and tolerance wins the race. Be the better man and let them think you're gonna roast on a spit for eternity. Not like it's gonna happen anyways. It pisses me off, yes, but that's because it was a blatant excuse with no hold in reality and he knew it. I wouldn't mind "we're taking out a genocidal maniac" as much as "I just made up a ton of shit", personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Well i'm gonna raped a wife and told it's ok because of religion , let's see what the judge think about it . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.": Voltaire. He was a philosopher and poet from the 1700s. He believed in God, so he had his own particular interpretation of what he was saying but whichever side of the religious divide you fall on, it's a valid philosophical point to consider. The fact he was religious himself makes it even more so. Really though, religion is not the root of all (or really any) evil; the complexity of the human brain is. If you have something that complex, which is biological, it can't always function properly. So you could be kind of ironic really and say that evolution is the root of all evil because evolution by definition produces species based entirely on compromised design. Within that, it's given us a brain which is incredible enough to create concepts like religion, yet fallible enough to interpret those concepts in entirely the wrong way. Religion on it's own does not result in evil; our false interpretations, as a result of our fallible, evolved brains, create that evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Tycoon, I agree that Genesis is worded like someone telling how the world works by someone who doesnt know how it works. However, would people be able to understand it any other way thousands of years ago? Kind of like (i think it was) Ezekiel being taken off(to heaven?) in charriots of fire. I have seen TV shows that claim these could be Aliens. Say it was for arguements sake. Could you really describe it any other way than Charriots of fire? You cant call it a round air plane with bright light bulbs shnning down when those things do not exist. Genesis give the people all the information they needed at the time. Until really the industrial age there wasnt really any need for more information IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I am a religious person. I'm kind, I help others expecting nothing in return. I'm tolerant of different opinions (even hateful ones like ts). I believe in absolute right and wrong. Mo matter what excuse is behind it, wrong is wrong. I guess I am "ignorant" in having faith in something that is "make believe", but following the teachings of this "evil" religion has made me grow from a trouble making kid with a rough childhood into a kind, caring, and morally sound man. If you only choose to look at the negatives, you can find evil in anything (including science). I may be "ignorant" and "evil", but even after you flame me for having different ideas, I will still treat you with kindness and compassion because that's what my "evil, make believe" God calls me to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 A mans ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. LOL. So by your logic society should be Lawless right? After all man would be in serious trouble if he had to be "restrained by fear of punishment"! Everyone is restrained by something. Be it fear of a wrathful god, prision, not being accepted by others, etc. I do not believe you are born knowing right from wrong. You are taught it. You can be raised to kill just as you are raised to save people. That said why would using religion to do good be any worse than any other reason to do good? It seems to me you are very full of hatred and taking out on religion with very little facts. Not suprising someone so full of hate is against somethig that teaches love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Tycoon, I agree that Genesis is worded like someone telling how the world works by someone who doesnt know how it works. However, would people be able to understand it any other way thousands of years ago? Kind of like (i think it was) Ezekiel being taken off(to heaven?) in charriots of fire. I have seen TV shows that claim these could be Aliens. Say it was for arguements sake. Could you really describe it any other way than Charriots of fire? You cant call it a round air plane with bright light bulbs shnning down when those things do not exist. Genesis give the people all the information they needed at the time. Until really the industrial age there wasnt really any need for more information IMO. I don't see why people wouldn't be able to understand it in a different way. Just take one example. The sun is a star but the other stars are further away. Is that concept any harder to understand than there is a sun and there are also stars which are different things?* The only problem there would be an understanding of scale being a bit of a mind fuck, which in itself does undermine some views of religion, if those believers do believe we're the most important thing in "God's world". I don't know the Ezekiel story so I can't comment on that. * p.s. check this vid out, it's pretty crazy. I don't think it in any way invalidates the concept of God or anything but I think it makes the idea of God more uncomfortable as an omnipotent being - certainly if he "made man in his own image". Again, I think those are comfortable, comforting ideals that were a lot easier to make in simpler times when humanity didn't understand anything more than their local environment. p.p.s. I don't like the "you are not the center of the universe" bit at the end of that video. I think people should be left to figure that out for themselves, without having it pushed at them like this video has an agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Leave it to BrainSmasher to LOL at Albert Einstein... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankyFin Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 heres what i learned from playing WoW for a month in 2004: religion = crowd controller politicians = tank banks = healer big business = damage dealer all to bring down the big mob and loot him ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 I don't see why people wouldn't be able to understand it in a different way. Just take one example. The sun is a star but the other stars are further away. Is that concept any harder to understand than there is a sun and there are also stars which are different things?* The only problem there would be an understanding of scale being a bit of a mind fuck, which in itself does undermine some views of religion, if those believers do believe we're the most important thing in "God's world". I don't know the Ezekiel story so I can't comment on that. * p.s. check this vid out, it's pretty crazy. I don't think it in any way invalidates the concept of God or anything but I think it makes the idea of God more uncomfortable as an omnipotent being - certainly if he "made man in his own image". Again, I think those are comfortable, comforting ideals that were a lot easier to make in simpler times when humanity didn't understand anything more than their local environment. You are right that is not that much harder to understand. But wouldnt that lead to more questions? It was finding out those answers that eventually lead to our understanding today when we can actually use it. Telling someone about the earth and sun will eventually lead to the laws of gravity. So Genesis would have to go much deeper into it that it was likely meant to go. Maybe it was left obscure to drive out curiosity and keep humanity reaching for the stars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 You are right that is not that much harder to understand. But wouldnt that lead to more questions? It was finding out those answers that eventually lead to our understanding today when we can actually use it. Telling someone about the earth and sun will eventually lead to the laws of gravity. So Genesis would have to go much deeper into it that it was likely meant to go. Maybe it was left obscure to drive out curiosity and keep humanity reaching for the stars? So that's advocating slowing down progress then? For what reason? Because some people wouldn't be able to keep up? Questions = progress. Not everybody has to ask the questions - only the people who are interested. Everyone else can do whatever they like. edit. I wanted to revise this a bit. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to slow progress. I think a natural progression from idea to idea across generations is a good thing because it's hard for an individual generation to change it's beliefs... however, I only say that from a standpoint of one idea replacing another e.g. evolution replacing creationism. If there was a "true way", which seems to be what religion wanted to preach, then I don't see why they couldn't just get that true way right in the first place and then let everyone live with it... why get a load of stuff wrong on purpose? Anyway, I'm logging out - gotta go do some work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Not really. What if to much information caused humanity to lose interest in the "stars"? As it was humans have looked at the sky and tried to learn about everything they can see. I dont see how that could be the case to the same extent if everything they could see was told to them in a satifactory manner. Even today we are still learning things about space that fuels interest to learn more. Tellin gabout just our solar system could have possible slowed down progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 Royce, Where in my religion does it teach me to be satisfied to be ignorant of the world around me? It seems like all you have for an argument is unsubstantiated claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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