sergio Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Not to mention that we're in this position in the first place because of how ridiculous defensive grappling is. It IS still the most important stat in the game, seeing as it + a certain slider combination basically killed the ground game. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Currently, only two of the top ten P4P fighters have ever taken an opponent down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Currently, only two of the top ten P4P fighters have ever taken an opponent down. Personally I'm expecting a massive paradigm shift in the next 6 or so months. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Personally I'm expecting a massive paradigm shift in the next 6 or so months. I agree with this as well, the ground game changes have certainly made ground work more effective, it just takes sometime as we all know to train fighters to those levels. especially ground fighters since aside from just the need of having excellent ground skills the fighters still need to be able to match it in the stand up otherwise they are toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Personally I'm expecting a massive paradigm shift in the next 6 or so months. Exactly. The top 10 tend to be a trailing indicator for game engine and training shifts, not a current or leading indicator. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Personally I'm expecting a massive paradigm shift in the next 6 or so months. Based on the current state I think so too but it will be interesting to see how training changes affects this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Sakuraba vs Carlos Newton. http://freevlog.hu/video/11410.html Cant find it in youtube anymore. This is fight link from another site. Damn epic fight. Sub attempt to sub attempt. Great fight. Good technician guys CAN go from sub to sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindsided Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 I think the problem was until the recent changes to the ground game is that many of the managers in this game are inexperienced with offensive ground sliders. Most people just go for the defensive to earn a stand up. I've noticed my ground guys have had a bit more success once they've gotten the fight to the ground. Give it some time for people to learn their sliders better and work them up and you'll see the sub numbers start to climb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajperok Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 Not to mention that we're in this position in the first place because of how ridiculous defensive grappling is. It IS still the most important stat in the game, seeing as it + a certain slider combination basically killed the ground game. It killed the aggressive ground game - the LNP ground game was quite strong before the change. ---- As for the top 10 fighters. How many of them were created in the past 6 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 It killed the aggressive ground game - the LNP ground game was quite strong before the change. Yes, because the LnP ground game abused the same faulty mechanics as counter\control. That doesn't make defensive grappling + that slider combo any less overpowered. I've seen white belts survive tons of submission attemps from black belts. That just ain't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 ground game is better , just look edwardsfan he became #1 just after the change with only ground fighters . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Yea, the ground game is a lot more powerful. I think the increased scoring for holding a dominant position is the change that has had most impact so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guinepighamster Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 You guys should link fighters and fights that demonstrate the new improved ground game mechanics. Maybe even how LnP fails now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 You guys should link fighters and fights that demonstrate the new improved ground game mechanics. Maybe even how LnP fails now? They key point of the new mechanic is to be aggressive. You don't have to play LnP since the referee is NOT stopping you if you hit the concrete 100 times given that you are ACTIVE enough. It's a reverse/mirror of the old ground game, in which LnP is the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 BJJ RULES ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Since the changes to the ground game I really think it's in pretty good shape right now. P.s. you really shouldn't be comparing results from events like M-1 Ukraine to those of the top fighters in Tycoon, without disrespecting the fighter quality of the M-1 Ukraine event (or starting a flame war.. hopefully) I think the top fighters in Tycoon are supposed to be more in line with the top guys in the UFC or Strikeforce than those in M-1 events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Since the changes to the ground game I really think it's in pretty good shape right now. P.s. you really shouldn't be comparing results from events like M-1 Ukraine to those of the top fighters in Tycoon, without disrespecting the fighter quality of the M-1 Ukraine event (or starting a flame war.. hopefully) I think the top fighters in Tycoon are supposed to be more in line with the top guys in the UFC or Strikeforce than those in M-1 events. Oh my god you Zuffa zombie you fail to recognize the brilliance that is M-1 Ukraine I hope you catch diverticulis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 Oh my god you Zuffa zombie you fail to recognize the brilliance that is M-1 Ukraine I hope you catch diverticulis. http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/oh_you.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 I slightly disagree here, if I'm going for a RNC and I have it across your chin whilst trying to slip underneath the chin I'm "looking for it" yet both fighters are still expending energy. The reason I only slightly disagree is that if I'm in half guard and get your wrist to look for a kimura then until I try to power through it then very little energy is being expended so then the point is valid. Totally depends on the submission but as a rule of thumb for me, looking for means attempting to lock it in which uses energy I agree that both fighters are expending energy here, but in reality, performing a submission is relatively low cost on you. Defending against a submission can be rough. Its one of the primary advantages of BJJ in real life. Your opponent is wearing out, while you defend until they expose themself to a vulnerable position. And in real life, if you find even a single moment where someone let's down their guard and isn't actively anticipating the attempt...armbars hurt a lot more than they look like they do. Most submissions are relatively simple to perform and are extremely effective. The hard part for Mike to adjust would be the fact that nobody attempts submission after submission in real life. Even the greatest submission artists out there would never stand a chance if they constantly searched for a tap out. It doesn't take an opponent like Fedor to figure out they should stay back and wait to kick you in the head. I suppose a better example would be Liddell; he has fought some folks with great ground game, but has never had a loss to submission. Okay, I am copping-out with his loss to Horn with the triangle choke as a TKO, but you get the picture... The point is, a good fighter would never fall victim to repeated sub attempts. I guess my long-winded statement could be summed up into: Submissions are fairly easy to perform and are 1-hit killers, but fighters training to recognize thier setup (def grap or BJJ/Wrestling) have a HUGE advantage in avoiding them. The energy expended is minimal to attempt a submission in real life, and if your more aggresive opponent is seeking to use ground and pound, they are expending more energy with failed attacks and submission avoidance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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