ajperok

ANOTHER ANTI-GRAPPLER MOVE. Just might as well turn this into a 100% striking game, like it isn't already. What is next, fighters that can run for an entire 15 minute fight and never once get caught in a clinch? oh wait we have that too.

I brought this up once before. Especially aggressive takedowns should end up in a clinch more so than counter-style takedowns. Clinching gets no love, don't expect much response,- I find clinching near impossible once you get at top levels.

at high levels you will be lucky to even engage in a clinch, nevermind staying in one. Clinching is the red-headed step child of this sim, so don't try to build a fighter around it, it gets no love.

There are no "Styles" when every 28 yeaor old fighter has all the same maxed out skills. That is the biggest problem right now, training is purely a reward in patience it is not like you are creating anything strategic or tactical, you are simply spending 2 years to make a guy who will look identical to every other 28 year old from a skills perspective. Skill points should have been capped a long time ago, way lower than they are now.

Your right, the game was more fun..... and more strategic when my guys were coming up. I used to fight them early, you would see guys with a 11 or 12 in a primary, you would read a PbP and you could see clues to the fighters makeup. When you get up there, you can still see clues to how someone sets their sliders, but your not really going to have an advantage in any tactical area, unless it's a hidden. Doesn't really matter who gives a (-) to the post, it is what it is. The only reason I have even stuck around the past 6 months was I was hoping Mike was going to implement his changes. (he still hasn't)..... I said it 3 years ago, and it is true right now. This game is a 2 year reward for patience. The actually training is really irrelevant, we all end up with the same product in the end. (except hiddens anyway)

this crap has been around forever. When 90% of the fighters in this game are Boxers, you will never win this arguement. It is the way it is now, because wrestlers had been winning fights for a while against inactive slugs.... ------ so the majority whined, and now you have this; Where you can just set your sliders to totally inactive, get your standup and go back to the basic boxing game this has become lately. You should just be thankful you managed a takedown in the first place...... those are hard enough to come by at the top levels.

But when everyone has ELITE speed, which I know all 15 of my active fighters do, along with Elite Agility, Elite Strength and Elite Conditioning... it's sort of relative... I don't really think physicals play much part in this game at this point since all the fighters are pretty much the same.

You will lose 80%+ if you rely on counter. You might still score the occassional KO, but that is about it. All you need to do is look at my record when I was in the top 50, and look at it now to see someone whose fighters couldn't adapt to the changes to counter. I was never huge on the 100% accuracy counter, though I know how effective it was. But I did rely on the counter heavily to score takedowns and engage in clinching.... However, nowdays that stuff doesn't work. If your fighters can't "out-box" your opponent you probably won't get very far. This is a punchers game nowdays. KO Power + Granite Chin vs KO Power + Granite Chin and may the best Elite Boxer win.

Other than to throw less strikes, which makes no sense..... what is stalling for? I thought maybe it would improve control, and help to maintain a clinch if someone was trying to break it. However, I am fairly certain that doesn't work. So is there a purpose? Other than if your trying to break clinch- I guess you would go 100% stall, 100% break clinch, 100% control.

THE GAME IS ALREADY SO HEAVILY TILTED TOWARD BOXERS .... stop whining. and when you do get taken down it will probably be a standup in a few seconds. --- Not to mention, that for some reason dirty boxing is more effective than Muay Thai in the clinch too. If the game slides anymore towards boxing you might as well just remove every other aspect.

What exactly is that observation...? Elbows do suck compared to punches and knees, and I have never won a round simply by sitting in clinch. ............ and several months later all of my fighters have much higher knees, and do more dirty boxing. So what is your fucking point? That because I think elbows are sadly inferior and a fighter who has balance of elbows/knees/punches/Muay Thai and Wrestling should have an advantage over some boxer who just throws punches(yet if they do, it's barely noticeable), I should just forfiet everytime a fighter ends up in a clinch situation, LOL

What exactly does this do...? Is it more like control, to keep your guy from just swinging away like a nut. Perhaps it works in conjunction with aggressivenes.. You don't really score points for controlling clinch, (I don't think), so I'm not sure why you would actually "stall".

What is the total number of starting skill points you can divide among coaches in a new gym?

That is the thing with takedowns and I mentioned this once before. I feel like we assume every takedown is the same. There are takedowns that rely on speed, and their is the bull rush. There are all safer takedowns with lower success rates like trips and drags and outside ankle and knee pulls, and there are the more direct doubles that may get you countered. - There is also takedown defense that gives the defender a takedown like front headlocks and buttdrags........ ------ Not saying everything could be incorporated or is even worth it, just adding to the discussion.

Now is a crappy time to quit with major changes in March......... I'm hoping the game becomes a lot more fun.

The other thought I was pondering is... Now that my fighters are all either double sensational or double elite and now 30 years old fighting equal opponents.... it may just be a different game than when they were 25. The people who started a year prior to me, used to always say what works at the bottom doesn't always work at the very top and you need this,this and this....... as usual just needed to find out for myself. Either way, I am looking forward to these changes.

The only cheating I see is having the 2 IP addresses in violation. That is blatant, should be a ban. I am so sick of this type of shit being allowed. How many of the "top managers" are multi's? More than 1. 10 minute rounds do favor ground fighters IMO, a little bit anyway. But it is hardly "cheating". Lets not forget, the early days of UFC they didn't have rounds, just long ass battles.

I've used this setting before and won. 100% counter. 50% takedown. 100% clinch In other words, I knew I didn't have a chance in standup, I also knew if I tried to clinch or shoot in and missed I would probably be knocked out. I actually think I won twice in a row with it, thought I was on to something and then found that most of my fighters didn't have the countering "genetics", and were just punching bags. - But what was nice was I didn't have to worry about missing over and over. I probably had the same odds of scoring a takedown per minute, without the energy drain. I think the harder skill ceiling will definitely have some sort of effect, though for who I don't know....... ----- I have been having this discussion for 3 years almost, you can call it whining, don't care. I only play this game for me, not really anyone else. - and I stick by the same point for that time period. Fighter design should be a challenge. You can have balanced fighters, and you can have specialist who excell in a few areas- either way they should have weaknesses. When you have balanced fighters who are just as talented as the specialists then you won't have as much strategy, it just becomes a game of pure slider mastery, luck and hiddens.

This post is meant for some of the more insightful posters that have been here a while, not all the little people who seem to turn everything into a troll fest, or just like to run around with their little -1's...... I personally have played a lot of text based SIMS over the past decade, WEBL, whatifsports, Dolphinsim, Blitz, a couple different basketball, a dozen different pro wrestling... and with any of these games it always seems there are 2 ways of doing things. 1) You find out what works, and you do things better than everyone else. This is easily the more common method, I know a handful of people that are exceptional at this, it's not my favorite. 2) You find out what works, and try to find out something different that can beat that method. To me this has always been the more fun element. It usually comes with some frustration, a lot of losses, but then when it does work it can be a blast and quite fullfillling. Unfortunately, SIM designers will often change the games code when you are successful because of the outcry from others. (Not really talking about MMATycoon, but I am in 2 sports SIM's that code changed about 3x because they didn't like something I had come up with, LOL) Even then, you just get back to the drawing board a little more fulfilled that you solved the puzzle essentially. In this particular game, when I started a few years ago their were a lot of guides being written, and there were a few standard words of wisdom. First- Granite Chin was a necessity, KO power was highly recommended and then you had a little bit of a choice on the 3rd one. Second about 80% of the fighters were "Sprawl and Brawl" or Chuck Liddell at the time, and every top fighter was of this style. These were all effective strikers, with ample defensive grappling. The game went through a number of phases. The high accuracy strikes 198/200, the high accuracy counter strikes, a period where submission were near impossible, and probably a few others... but throughout, all of these style fighters have reigned supreme. Our current crop, from Jokinen and Creed down the list are a bit more balanced then they used to be, but they all still are strike first, and are going to win most of their fights in standup. And you could almost argue the balance is actually a product of bountifulness, simply because our current fighters have so many skill points that pretty much everyone ends up with more options by default. - I personally attempted to design non-strikers. I went high in clinch, high in grappling skills and tried to learn sliders. Right out of the gate it seemed to work in lower end fights. You could either wrap up guys in clinch or "lay n pray" (really just cautiously control the ground game) pretty much for the length of the fight. - At higher levels it was more difficult, guys had better skills, fighters were better. They could counter a takedown and easily KO you. Most of them had skill sets (15 punches/15 strike D) that made them at least effective dirty boxers. But it still was a successful style. - Over the past 6 months, I'd say that idea has become less effective. Referee Standups seem to happens sometimes now in under a minute, despite an aggressive attempt.... and despite being told there were no real changes, "break clinch" appears to be much easier. Now with changes on the horizon. Specifically a Counter- Grapple, which sounds like tougher takedowns? and some other changes..... what direction are we headed. Is it possible to design a winning fighter who isn't a strike-first fighter? I have about a 5-20 record over my last 25 fights as I have been moving my sliders all over the place. I never cared about my record, or ranking....... I do get excited when a fighter gets on a run, and starts creeping his way toward the top though, but all of my last few fights have looked the same. Takedowns with a relatively quick standup, a clinch broken quickly----- ending in a knockout at some point in standup, except for the 2 or 3 guys who never get knocked out, they just lose decisions. A friend of mine says "cut all the guys who get knocked out, only keep the ones who don't and then fight more aggressively in standup" I don't really want to concede this answer. I'm also not saying you can't win a fight by other methods (so no need to post the random fight and say "look here!, this guy won once) I am just saying is it possible to string together enough fights with a non-dominant stand up fighter to make a difference? and when the SIM's new changes go through will it be easier or harder? - Though I think the counter-grapple will be a huge advantage for KOing missed takedown attempts, I think a harder skill ceiling will certainly open strategic cracks in the skill wall juggernaut of awesome at everything and allow for non-mainstream fighters. Who else has tried this, is trying this..... and what do you think?

That is pretty damn amazing then. 312 Fights. and the 3 fastest breaks of clinch ever are in 3 of the last 4 fights, with 3 different fighters. How much stronger can you be than 15+? and maybe that is the problem Dirk, all the damn fighters are the same now.... just one big coin flip. No more winning fights by making anything different. hmmmm I wonder who I fight tomorrow, lets look? Sensational (14) boxing, Sensational (14) Muay Thai, Sensational (14) wrestling and holds a brown belt in vs Elijah has Exceptional (13) boxing, Elite (15) Muay Thai, Elite (15) wrestling and holds a brown belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. LOL, this is the game some of you wanted. Just guessing with sliders and hoping you have better hiddens, because fighter design isn't going to make a difference.

nerf clinch..... nerf ground fighting. another guy who wants a striker only game.

After 250 fights, I can see changes, but I only think it's fair when we get a heads up,,, the ninja changes that have been going on the past two or few months without notice are more than annoying. It use to be easier to keep people in clinch for at least a minute or so, now not only is it harder to engage, it is usually broken after two or three strikes. FIGHT 1 http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/clinch.gif Boorg moves into the clinch. Nice elbow from Boorg. Mirror lands with a quick shot inside that doesn't really do much damage. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/breakclinch2.gif FIGHT 2 http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/clinch2.gif Klinefelter clinches. Klinefelter lands with a quick shot inside that doesn't really do much damage. Gatho with the Thai clinch. He's looking to land a big knee but he's not managed it this time. Gatho lands with a left to the head. Klinefelter lands an elbow just above Gatho 's eye. Klinefelter misses the knee to the body. Nice hip positioning from Gatho. Gatho throws a punch but it's blocked by Klinefelter. Klinefelter tries to land knees in the clinch but Gatho avoids the damage to the body. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/breakclinch.gif FIGHT 3 http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/clinch2.gif and Troyer counters by moving into the clinch. Cabrera tried to land a shot to the body but connects with Troyer's elbow. Cabrera avoids a wild elbow strike from Troyer. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/breakclinch.gif Sadly, it was already a striker game, now clinch is borderline useless. So we have had a beefing up of sub spam effectiveness, and clinch has been otherwise removed from the game. wow. That is a huge difference.

FIRST OFF... this isn't the same code, it's been tweaked. Second, it's so far skewed right now toward subber it's ridiculious. Gatho swings for the body but Klinefelter moves out of range. Klinefelter tries to clinch up. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/takedown2.gif Klinefelter scores a takedown into full mount! We've had a lack of effective grappling in the last minute or so, which could well see a referee standup. REALLY? his aggro was 55%, and 1 line in, first takedown of the match he gets the freaking warning message? I guess I have to add a bunch of stupid sub spams, or let my fighters be taken down if I want to compete anymore on the mat, because it looks like the only thing the SIM seems to appreciate is Sub attempt ..... nope Sub attempt .... nope --- getting the shit beat out of you sub attemt ..... nope --- get the shit beat our of you some more sub attempt ... nope hey, you win the round, LOL

Another fucking fight.... the same way. HOW COME WE DON'T GET POINTS FOR REVERSALS, OR TOP CONTROL? - that is MMA scoring. (laying on your back, trying a bunch of half assed submissions doesn't score.) can you just explain how you win a round when you were in the inferior position for over 4 minutes? If you take someone down, and 10 seconds later they take control for the rest of the round.... you don't win?

The bell rings for round one and we are underway! Cabrera swings and misses with a hook to the body. Cabrera changes levels and looks for a double leg takedown. Troyer tries to avoid it but Cabrera manages to keep hold of a leg and drag Troyer to the ground. Troyer escapes though and pops straight back up to his feet. Cabrera throws a head kick but Troyer moves out of range. Cabrera misses with a low kick. Troyer shoots in for a takedown but Cabrera shows good takedown defense. Cabrera lands a leg kick that knocks Troyer off balance momentarily. Troyer throws a leg kick that misses. Cabrera throws a push kick but Troyer slaps the foot to one side. Troyer misses with a double jab Takedown so Cabrera counters with a double leg into guard. Good agility. Cabrera in full guard, throwing the ground and pound. No damage this time. 1:00 That's one minute gone in the round. Troyer bucks up whilst keeping hold of a body lock, managing to reverse the position. Now he's in top in Cabrera's guard. Troyer stops Cabrera from standing up. sub attempt Cabrera working for a triangle but Troyer defends it easily. Cabrera has been looking to land a fair amount of strikes on the ground. He might be looking to soften his opponent up in order to work for a submission sub attempt Cabrera working for submissions but it's allowed Troyer to get to half guard. Cabrera is looking to improve his position. Cabrera regains full guard. Nicely done. Troyer postures up in Cabrera's guard and throws a big left but Cabrera blocks it. 2:00 That's two minutes gone in the round. sub attempt Cabrera looking for submissions from the bottom but instead Troyer passes into half guard. Troyer scores with a couple of good hammerfists. Troyer controlling the action here. Troyer wants to lay and pray for a moment but Cabrera keeps working. Cabrera makes his way to full guard. A much better position for Cabrera. Wooooo! Give it up for these two warriors! They are putting on a show! sub attempt Cabrera is looking for a guillotine. You can't force these things though and Troyer defends well. Cabrera manages to land a sweep and now he's in mount on top! http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/3.gif That's three minutes gone in the round. Cabrera landing shots from mount. Troyer regains half guard. Cabrera is stalling here. Troyer is in no mood to hang around though. He's locked up a kimura from the bottom! Cabrera seems to be keeping calm but he's forced to roll out of the hold and Troyer has ended up in side control on the top. Nice work. Troyer working away. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/4.gif That's four minutes gone in the round. Troyer wants to lay and pray for a moment but Cabrera keeps working. Cabrera regains half guard. Troyer winds up and cracks Cabrera with a swinging punch to the side of the head. The fighters are pressed up against the cage, both looking to find a bit of space to work. Troyer looks towards his corner to check for any instructions. The corner give him nothing to work with, so he cracks Cabrera with a short hammerfist. I guess that's as good as any advice he could get in this position. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/sub.gif Cabrera looking to work for a kimura from the bottom. Cabrera is looking to regain full guard. Not this time though. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/sub.gif Cabrera is looking to sinch up a guillotine here but Troyer pulls his head out easily. This has been an exciting period of action! As the round comes to an end the crowd are showing their appreciation for a great round of action. Nice strikes from Troyer there. And that’s the end of the round – the fighters go back to their corners. Hector Cabrera dominated that round. Well, the break between rounds is over. Let's get back to the scrappin! ---- How on earth does one takedown, one strike, one high accuracy kick and a whole shitload of subspamming. "dominate" 2 reversals, almost 4 to 1 in control time and 4 strikes. IN MMA YOU GET POINTS FOR CONTROLLING YOUR OPPONENT IN GRAPPLING, NOT SUB SPAMMING..... TROYER HAD CONTROL FOR ALMOST 4 MINUTES. I have nothing against sub spamming, but failed submission attempts sure as hell shouldn't score points! and add this too... Cabrera gets his takedown attempt stuffed easily http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/knockdown2.gif and Troyer counters with a head kick that drops Cabrera! http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/rocked2.gif Cabrera is rocked! http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/1.gif That's one minute gone in the round. http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/fight/sub.gif so 10 seconds after getting knocked down and rocked, the next message is a sub attempt? Enough of this crappolla.