"Zuffa Monopoly"

[Guest]

Maybe so but they get health insurance now and sponsors. So even $2K per fight is well above poverty even if they only fight 2 times. Also i would rather not have new fighters getting rich from singing a 3 fight rookie contract. It encourages fighters to build fake records in the minors like boxers, get a big contract, fight like shit and be set for like. Most noobs in the UFC dont cut the mustard. I dont want the sport and the good fighters losing tons of money to a bunch of pretenders. I agree that Zuffa being the only Org hurts lower level fighters. But they dont get much anyway to worry about it. In the end you have to make yourself valuable like any other job. If you are good and being in the fans then you will get good pay days. If you are like Huerta and want a huge contract without ever fighting anyone then you wont be in luck. Unions are always better for the fighters. But they are not better for the sport or the fans. They suck the life out of each industry they get a hold of.

[Eveas]

Maybe so but they get health insurance now and sponsors. So even $2K per fight is well above poverty even if they only fight 2 times. Also i would rather not have new fighters getting rich from singing a 3 fight rookie contract. It encourages fighters to build fake records in the minors like boxers, get a big contract, fight like shit and be set for like. Most noobs in the UFC dont cut the mustard. I dont want the sport and the good fighters losing tons of money to a bunch of pretenders. I agree that Zuffa being the only Org hurts lower level fighters. But they dont get much anyway to worry about it. In the end you have to make yourself valuable like any other job. If you are good and being in the fans then you will get good pay days. If you are like Huerta and want a huge contract without ever fighting anyone then you wont be in luck. Unions are always better for the fighters. But they are not better for the sport or the fans. They suck the life out of each industry they get a hold of.

I forget which fighter it was, but I was watching an prelim and his team was holding his banner behind him. It was a piece of paper with one logo on it. It was so sad. And, this was a televised fight. I doubt a guy making $2k has many if any sponsors.

[DougSupreme]

I forget which fighter it was, but I was watching an prelim and his team was holding his banner behind him. It was a piece of paper with one logo on it. It was so sad. And, this was a televised fight. I doubt a guy making $2k has many if any sponsors.

 

 

I train amateur fighters that are able to generate sponsorships. If he only had one sponsor, it was because he wasn't trying.

[Eveas]

I train amateur fighters that are able to generate sponsorships. If he only had one sponsor, it was because he wasn't trying.

I wish I could remember who it was. It was so sad looking. There was a picture of it online, but I'd need to remember who it was to find it. It was literally a piece of paper he just pulled off his printer.

[Guest]

Agree with Doug. When i was training all of our fighters had sponsors. Hell even my brother and i was offered huge discounts just because we trained with the fighters from the sponsors. Also there are very few who are making $2K. Most of the noobs are getting 5/5. That is between 15 and 30K for 3 fights. If you only get 15 then you suck and dont deserve to be getting paid by the UFC anyway since you would be 0-3. Also the UFC (if people quit bitching) are in the process of raising the level of sponsorships for everyone. This is what the Sponsor fee is for. To weed out the low class sponsors to be more appealing to to mainstream Madison avenue sponsors. Of course someone along the line loses a sponsor short tern and they cry like a baby. But it has to be done. No one will pay 500K to Sponsor a fighter when someone else gets their name in the cage for $500.

 

Also there have been many fighters who claim they make much more from sponsors than they do fighting. Mid level guys and high level guys.

[Eveas]

Agree with Doug. When i was training all of our fighters had sponsors. Hell even my brother and i was offered huge discounts just because we trained with the fighters from the sponsors. Also there are very few who are making $2K. Most of the noobs are getting 5/5. That is between 15 and 30K for 3 fights. If you only get 15 then you suck and dont deserve to be getting paid by the UFC anyway since you would be 0-3. Also the UFC (if people quit bitching) are in the process of raising the level of sponsorships for everyone. This is what the Sponsor fee is for. To weed out the low class sponsors to be more appealing to to mainstream Madison avenue sponsors. Of course someone along the line loses a sponsor short tern and they cry like a baby. But it has to be done. No one will pay 500K to Sponsor a fighter when someone else gets their name in the cage for $500.

 

Also there have been many fighters who claim they make much more from sponsors than they do fighting. Mid level guys and high level guys.

I was referring to low level guys, though when I last checked (admittedly about 6 months ago) events had 4-6 people making $2k/$2k. If that was raised then great. And it isn't a dig on the UFC. Strikeforce had guys making $1k/$1k. As bad as it looked the UFC was still the highest paying org.

[Guest]

Just to add my view on this current debate, I saw some figures recently which compared the last 5 UFC cards to the last 5 ppv boxing cards and the MMA fighters are making 4 or 5 times as much as the boxers. I think a few of the fighters on the last Pacman card made as little as $500 for the fight so as far as combat sports go, MMA is the top of the pay ladder by far for low tier guys

[Guest]

The typical UFC pay is 5/5. It is very rare to see anyone making less. Also these guys get the chance to win OTN awards. Dustin Hazelett was getting the the minimum contract in the UFC and he made a quarter of a million one year with his OTN awards. Thats not typical but it is there for those who come to fight and put on a show.

[Guest]

Fighters need a union if they want to stand a chance for a fair contract soon. Zuffa already employing some questionable tactics by throwing out all Golden Glory fighters.

Really? Do you know how much trouble sports have with unions in the United States? A shitload. Besides, it will only lead to millionaires fighting with billionaires, like it does with every other sport in the world.

 

Zuffa treats their fighters fine, we don't need middlemen interfering.

 

Golden Glory was kicked due to their penchant for controlling their fighters pay. It's not a big deal, the fighters can surely come back if their management cedes pay control to Zuffa.

[jacky67]

I just don't see how the fans are suffering right now. We have MMA on MTV2, Spike, Showtime, and Versus. It's mostly Zuffa promoted, but they do a damn fine job most of the time. MMA has never been as accessable as it is now.

 

What is the alternative? Eighty different promoters like M-1 and GG who all control good fighters, but none of them can come to an agreement on anything from purse to location to rules? We wouldn't see half as many ranked fights as we see now.

 

Bellator , strikeforce , pride ... was alternative .

[Guest]

Unfortunately, MMA fans don't typically understand the business of the business of MMA.

 

First, the UFC does not hold a "Monopoly". The last sports monopoly was Major League Baseball, and their monopoly was lifted in 1993 when Congress ended the organization's anti-trust exemption. This opened the doors for independent baseball teams to operate inside the traditional territories of existing MLB teams.

 

UFC does not have a monopoly because they are not preventing other MMA organizations from running events. So just because the UFC has totally engulfed mainstream attention does not mean they are a monopoly.

 

That said, to whoever thinks money for MMA fighters at the lower level is better than boxing doesn't know what pay days are. It is unusual for a regional MMA show to have more than 2 or 3 fighters making north of 1500/1500. Most fighters start at the $250/$250 ball park and graduate up to $500/$500 and then float somewhere between there and $1k/$1k. Promoters that pay more than that without even a local TV deal or a building that seats more than 3,000 fans are generally losing their asses on shows. Boxers, from what I understand, make considerably more than that, though I've never worked for a boxing promoter, so I can't say for certain.

 

As far as the "best guys fighting". You don't see that in boxing. Fighters and managers dodge fights at all levels. It's harder to dodge at the UFC level, because they are one of the few organizations that pay close to a living wage (but a prelim card fighter for UFC will make ~$5k/~$5k and fight twice a year, very difficult to make a living on maybe $20k/yr). The other thing to consider is that the UFC is very domineering in how they handle their fighters. Fighters have been known to give up likeness rights for toys and video games, their sponsors have to pay a $2500 tithe to the UFC, and the UFC also very rarely allows their fighters to fight in smaller organizations (Anthony Morrison is the last one I was aware of, and that was 2010 when he was under contract with WEC). The business of MMA usually prevents the top guys from fighting. Ideally we see the top guys fight, but the UFC is like any other sport. They have *generally* the best guys at the top of the pyramid. Guys fight their way up to that. Just like baseball players play their way up through the minors to play in the Major Leagues. But just like in the UFC, the top baseball teams don't always play in the World Series. There's also the argument that "Your favorite fighters aren't necessarily the best fighters". For instance, I personally think that Frankie Edgar smashes Gil Melendez, and I know he would beat Frankie Edgar 5 times out of 10. But depending on the ranking system, Ed's usually between 3 and 5 with Shinya Aoki in the mix somewhere. The problem is, that when the UFC approached Ed, he didn't like the contract. Why take a paycut just to fight for "the big show" when you can make a better living fighting for other companies?

 

Since the Strikeforce buyout a lot of people have been bitching and moaning about the UFC "monopoly". I live in Philly, and in any month I can go see 3 to 5 MMA shows. And that's not counting the UFC's biannual visit to the Wells Fargo. So how about instead of complaining about the UFC, you get out and support local MMA?

[Guest]

Unfortunately, MMA fans don't typically understand the business of the business of MMA.

 

First, the UFC does not hold a "Monopoly". The last sports monopoly was Major League Baseball, and their monopoly was lifted in 1993 when Congress ended the organization's anti-trust exemption. This opened the doors for independent baseball teams to operate inside the traditional territories of existing MLB teams.

 

UFC does not have a monopoly because they are not preventing other MMA organizations from running events. So just because the UFC has totally engulfed mainstream attention does not mean they are a monopoly.

 

That said, to whoever thinks money for MMA fighters at the lower level is better than boxing doesn't know what pay days are. It is unusual for a regional MMA show to have more than 2 or 3 fighters making north of 1500/1500. Most fighters start at the $250/$250 ball park and graduate up to $500/$500 and then float somewhere between there and $1k/$1k. Promoters that pay more than that without even a local TV deal or a building that seats more than 3,000 fans are generally losing their asses on shows. Boxers, from what I understand, make considerably more than that, though I've never worked for a boxing promoter, so I can't say for certain.

 

As far as the "best guys fighting". You don't see that in boxing. Fighters and managers dodge fights at all levels. It's harder to dodge at the UFC level, because they are one of the few organizations that pay close to a living wage (but a prelim card fighter for UFC will make ~$5k/~$5k and fight twice a year, very difficult to make a living on maybe $20k/yr). The other thing to consider is that the UFC is very domineering in how they handle their fighters. Fighters have been known to give up likeness rights for toys and video games, their sponsors have to pay a $2500 tithe to the UFC, and the UFC also very rarely allows their fighters to fight in smaller organizations (Anthony Morrison is the last one I was aware of, and that was 2010 when he was under contract with WEC). The business of MMA usually prevents the top guys from fighting. Ideally we see the top guys fight, but the UFC is like any other sport. They have *generally* the best guys at the top of the pyramid. Guys fight their way up to that. Just like baseball players play their way up through the minors to play in the Major Leagues. But just like in the UFC, the top baseball teams don't always play in the World Series. There's also the argument that "Your favorite fighters aren't necessarily the best fighters". For instance, I personally think that Frankie Edgar smashes Gil Melendez, and I know he would beat Frankie Edgar 5 times out of 10. But depending on the ranking system, Ed's usually between 3 and 5 with Shinya Aoki in the mix somewhere. The problem is, that when the UFC approached Ed, he didn't like the contract. Why take a paycut just to fight for "the big show" when you can make a better living fighting for other companies?

 

Since the Strikeforce buyout a lot of people have been bitching and moaning about the UFC "monopoly". I live in Philly, and in any month I can go see 3 to 5 MMA shows. And that's not counting the UFC's biannual visit to the Wells Fargo. So how about instead of complaining about the UFC, you get out and support local MMA?

 

"That said, to whoever thinks money for MMA fighters at the lower level is better than boxing doesn't know what pay days are." - " I've never worked for a boxing promoter, so I can't say for certain"

 

Which means neither do you, what you are conveying is your opinion and because you write more for longer its should be listened to?

 

 

"As far as the "best guys fighting". You don't see that in boxing." - Thats what people are complaining about, Boxing is not dying! Its having stroke after stroke, developing sports related injuries and suffering from pity! None of its title are relevant anymore because #1 CHOSE to fight #10 and #2 doesn't get a look in.

 

Although in defence of ..... Thats because there are 3/4/5 different governing bodies.

 

Other than that I agree with you

[Guest]

Which means neither do you, what you are conveying is your opinion and because you write more for longer its should be listened to?

 

Actually, I'm a matchmaker for an MMA promotion, so I've drafted contracts, and I'm aware of what fighters fighters are getting paid, because I talk with fighters and other promoters for a living. So it's not really an opinion, but an observation from someone who's actually inside the industry. Listen to it or not, I'm just trying to help educate people who obviously want to be more intelligent fans.

[DougSupreme]

Actually, I'm a matchmaker for an MMA promotion, so I've drafted contracts, and I'm aware of what fighters fighters are getting paid, because I talk with fighters and other promoters for a living. So it's not really an opinion, but an observation from someone who's actually inside the industry. Listen to it or not, I'm just trying to help educate people who obviously want to be more intelligent fans.

 

 

I think his point was, you are trying to compare boxing pay to MMA pay, and you only have (by your own admission) knowledge of one side of the argument.

[Guest]

Lemme try and find the figures for you all, on ppv cards in boxing the guys at the start of the card are getting as little as $500 for the fight. Now you're saying MMA fighters only get that on the local circuit, well some boxers get that on televised events!

 

That was merely my point, I've seen first hand aswell as with the figures that I'll find when I have chance, that boxers in general get payed worse than MMA fighters until they hit huge popularity

[Guest]

I think i have seen in the past numbers that show the UFC lower guys make more than boxings. No one is claiming local MMA shows pay more than boxing.

[Guest]

Mike - obviously there are going to be guys who fight for shitty paychecks in all sports. I know of fighters who have fought for %50/%50 to pay back a debt owed to the promoter. But you can't use low paydays as a barometer. You have to use main eventer pay days. And from what my conversations are, boxers typically advance to higher pay checks quicker. It could be a "grass is greener" situation, though.

[Guest]

I think his point was, you are trying to compare boxing pay to MMA pay, and you only have (by your own admission) knowledge of one side of the argument.

Nah, his point was that he didn't think I knew what I was talking about.

[Guest]

Like I said, these figures were low card fighters on a ppv, the ppv fighters in MMA make at least 5 times more on average

 

As I said though, once you hit top tier then its different. Brock Lesnar and Anderson Silva combined don't get close to a popular world champion in boxing, was just pointing out that at the absolute bottom levels its no worse in MMA than boxing and when you get to televised events the bottom of the card guys earn WAY more in MMA

 

In essence, MMA in general is on par or above in terms of pay for combat sports until you reach the pinnacle. Plus don't forget that boxing has been mainstream for 100 years, MMA only for 10 or so (I know MMA has been about longer but I'm talking widely accepted) so you have to give it chance

 

I'd take up MMA professionally any day before boxing though, the promoters rule boxing and its not a nice world. I have several friends who box, and several more that chose to stick to other forms of combat rather than turn pro boxing due to it all

[Guest]

Well then. This certainly went in a different direction to what i expected.

 

[Guest]

It is always going to be hard to compare Boxing and MMA pay. There is extremes at each level. Rich Franklin was champ and only getting like 34/34 while lessor guys were getting much more. But when you compare the low levels of a UFC PPV to the low levels of big boxing PPV. The UFC is often more. Not all the times Im sure "Locked in the Cage" see's guys who make the 50/50 you talked about as well as a couple grand per fight. But i think we, or at least i, were referring to UFC events compared to well known boxing cards. Not every boxing event is De la hoya vs Mayweather but every UFC is UFC 100. But the UFC compares in pay to boxing very with out competition forcing them. Also i agree 100%. People need to support their local MMA promotion. You get to see fights up close. I enjoy it equally as i do a big UFC event but in a different way. Unfortunately too many people are fans of a specific fighter and not so much of the sport and they are missing out on much of what the sport has to offer. Good luck with your promotion.

[Guest]

"I'm Chael Sonnen and I support this message."

Seems legit.

[Guest]

Like I said, these figures were low card fighters on a ppv, the ppv fighters in MMA make at least 5 times more on average

 

As I said though, once you hit top tier then its different. Brock Lesnar and Anderson Silva combined don't get close to a popular world champion in boxing, was just pointing out that at the absolute bottom levels its no worse in MMA than boxing and when you get to televised events the bottom of the card guys earn WAY more in MMA

 

In essence, MMA in general is on par or above in terms of pay for combat sports until you reach the pinnacle. Plus don't forget that boxing has been mainstream for 100 years, MMA only for 10 or so (I know MMA has been about longer but I'm talking widely accepted) so you have to give it chance

 

I'd take up MMA professionally any day before boxing though, the promoters rule boxing and its not a nice world. I have several friends who box, and several more that chose to stick to other forms of combat rather than turn pro boxing due to it all

 

MMA really only get popular 2206 after the first TUF. So really 5 years.

 

Funny how boxing works. There is a guy in my area who was Golden Gloven champ and the best boxer around here. HE put off going pro for ever. Then when he does he runs his record to like 6-0. His first 5 fights were all guys with no wins. Then he fights a guy with 5-0 record. I was like "nice to see he is finally fighting someone". Then i check his record. That was got his 5 wins verses all guys with no wins. It just goes to show how screwed up boxing is. Im sure someone will be the guy from my area when he gets his fake record up to 15/20-0 and they will promote it like he was a meaningful win. It is really just a big joke. One fake was built on another fake. You dont have to wonder to hard why these guys duck fights when they get to the top. They got there by getting the perfect match up each time out.

[jacky67]

Then he fights a guy with 5-0 record. I was like "nice to see he is finally fighting someone". Then i check his record. That was got his 5 wins verses all guys with no wins. Im sure someone will be the guy from my area when he gets his fake record up to 15/20-0 and they will promote it like he was a meaningful win. It is really just a big joke. One fake was built on another fake.

 

It looks like MMA too .