Public gyms?

[Guest]

I noticed the spoiler page was asking for more public gyms from the people who have VIPs but do not have a business. I don't think I'm off base when I say some of those folks probably don't want to due to the risk. I know I personally was terrified when I first started by clothing store.

 

So why not just offer up incentive to the folks who have been hip deep in the economy of the game (and who apparently are ok with taking that gamble) and open up a 2nd slot for a gym specifically.

 

You could do something like place slight limitations on it. Something like it can't be private, gym size cannot be lower than 70 or something like that.

 

Just throwing out ideas. I know personally if I could open up a gym as well as keep my clothing store I'd be there in a heartbeat.

[Grey]

I threw this idea out there as well and Mike said that he didn't like it.

[Guest]

I noticed the spoiler page was asking for more public gyms from the people who have VIPs but do not have a business. I don't think I'm off base when I say some of those folks probably don't want to due to the risk. I know I personally was terrified when I first started by clothing store.

 

So why not just offer up incentive to the folks who have been hip deep in the economy of the game (and who apparently are ok with taking that gamble) and open up a 2nd slot for a gym specifically.

 

You could do something like place slight limitations on it. Something like it can't be private, gym size cannot be lower than 70 or something like that.

 

Just throwing out ideas. I know personally if I could open up a gym as well as keep my clothing store I'd be there in a heartbeat.

only way i'd ever be in favor of multiple companies would be if you couldnt have your own fighters in it. but that doesnt really do anything against multi's.

 

i dont think that it would be a terrible idea if gyms HAD to turn a profit. in other words you could not set fighter caps below what it takes to pay the coaches wages. basically cutting out operating at a loss

[Guest]

ahhh well there goes that idea

[Grey]

Yeah, it's too bad. If it were implemented, I'd open up a private gym and run it at even costs or a small loss if that's what the community needed. But like I said, it's not going to happen.

[Guest]

edwardsfan: actually that's a good point. I don't see the problem with having your own fighters in a gym but operating at a loss is a good point. But that's how these uber private gyms survive. So maybe having a secondary gym would have to have those limitations to prevent that and help focus on the new guys.

 

The only other option I could think of would be for Mike to put in CPU gyms like Cozad that worked as a 2nd tier gym for new folks

[Guest]

edwardsfan: actually that's a good point. I don't see the problem with having your own fighters in a gym but operating at a loss is a good point. But that's how these uber private gyms survive. So maybe having a secondary gym would have to have those limitations to prevent that and help focus on the new guys.

 

The only other option I could think of would be for Mike to put in CPU gyms like Cozad that worked as a 2nd tier gym for new folks

i've never been in favor a computer run gyms. it just keeps bussiness away from the players that are actually out there trying to make it.....on that point, i'm still completely stumped how mike still has Cozad gyms still in the game. it's a game with literally *NOTHING* that attempts to draw you in when you first sign up. searching out your very first gym is one of the most optimistic things that you'll ever do in this game. in my opinion it should be one of the very first things you do do. you may only have 1 chance to impress. might as well put your best foot forward

[MMATycoon]

It's all in the new user guide, which was created after your second incarnation. It runs you through a load of steps and gives you money to do stuff, including changing gyms.

 

I just don't like the idea of secondary companies. I would rather try and just make them viable businesses for people who don't want to have to run two companies.

[Guest]

It's all in the new user guide, which was created after your second incarnation. It runs you through a load of steps and gives you money to do stuff, including changing gyms.

 

I just don't like the idea of secondary companies. I would rather try and just make them viable businesses for people who don't want to have to run two companies.

oh i didnt know that you had implemented a user guide. sorry. but that's a good idea. starting a new game even over the internet can be overwhelming, and i'd say that's actually probly the main reason why ppl havent stayed a lot of times. if you've added structure to it then that's very smart.

 

i agree. secondary companies isnt the best option i dont think. doing things to entice ppl into WANTING to create public gyms as a primary company is probly best long term for the game. i can vouch that running a public gym can be exciting. the funnest time in the game for me ever was building The Beez Nest. i'll never forget that experience...utimately private gyms won out though

[Kronix]

I'm a gym owner, and its private. Simply for the fact that public gyms can never compete with private onces were I can dictate to only have 2-3 persons per coach at the most(ussual 1-2). For some an incentive would be able to make more money of the gyms but for me its simply the training. Even tho the gym changes were made (totaly awesome changes) Public just aint good enough and thats the sad truth

 

I do rent out tho.. basicly just covering the cost and small profit but I help out 2 managers at least

 

a fix for this would be to just take away the coach limit(the decrease of learning) and add a gym limit. Max 30 person / gym but doesnt mather if its 2 or 15 on the same coach. They all get the same training. This would totally eliminate the private gyms and make it competative and with a low max limit there would have to be a greater number of gyms. Naturally you either need to increase the gym fee or decrease the coaches fee if a low limit gym should be able to cover the costs. No one wants to lose money

[Erik]

My suggestion to fix gyms in general would be to allow gym owners to charge the fighters training there a % of their base fight pay (up to 25% perhaps?) in exchange for providing corner men.

 

Perhaps there could be a research outlay for this so gyms could improve certain elements - cut men, game plan coaching, psychological coaching/confidence, energy recovery, I'm sure others can come up with more and a fighter can select any 3 "services" for their corner.

 

 

The problem right now is there's no way for public gyms to both provide *good* training and make money, and there's no way for private gyms to function without laundering money -- no gym can actually provide top quality training without an outside source of cash.

[Guest]

My suggestion to fix gyms in general would be to allow gym owners to charge the fighters training there a % of their base fight pay (up to 25% perhaps?) in exchange for providing corner men.

 

Perhaps there could be a research outlay for this so gyms could improve certain elements - cut men, game plan coaching, psychological coaching/confidence, energy recovery, I'm sure others can come up with more and a fighter can select any 3 "services" for their corner.

 

 

The problem right now is there's no way for public gyms to both provide *good* training and make money, and there's no way for private gyms to function without laundering money -- no gym can actually provide top quality training without an outside source of cash.

yea, it's definately not a profit issue. some ppl will say that it is, but it's obviously the training results that have all the impact.

 

i like your idea about the 3 services. cut men offered by the gym is a very good idea.

 

phsycological/confidence coaching is a good idea if done correctly. you dont ever want to make that the main factor in a fight though. that wouldnt be good for the game. same for cornermen. it's a good idea only if it can be implemented correctly.

 

perhaps confidence coaches could offer a 5% increase in confidence for your fighter? a cornerman can increase you're fighters experience/intelligence by 5%? --- if you choose to use one of those services for a fight then the gym recieves a portion of your pay --- the training quality may never be on the same level as a private gym. but the perks of a public gym through game improvements may be enough to sway a couple ppl over to using/creating public gyms.

 

currently ppl dont create public gyms because ppl dont use public gyms. get ppl wanting to use public gyms and ppl will create public gyms

[Erik]

phsycological/confidence coaching is a good idea if done correctly. you dont ever want to make that the main factor in a fight though. that wouldnt be good for the game. same for cornermen. it's a good idea only if it can be implemented correctly.

 

I was thinking more working to restore a fighter back to his earlier confidence when he has been taking a beating, not necessarily able to recover from getting destroyed or anything but able to regain some lost confidence after losing a round.

 

 

currently ppl dont create public gyms because ppl dont use public gyms. get ppl wanting to use public gyms and ppl will create public gyms

 

I would argue people generally don't use public gyms because there is no such thing as a profitable public gym that offers good training due to simple numbers (iirc you need 5 fighters for a single elite coach to turn a profit, which results in shitty training -- 3 a session isn't great and any more is terrible).

[Guest]

I was thinking more working to restore a fighter back to his earlier confidence when he has been taking a beating, not necessarily able to recover from getting destroyed or anything but able to regain some lost confidence after losing a round.

 

oh. yea, that's actually better than the way i thought of it. it's kind of like they would help you keep your composure which i think is realistic.

 

I would argue people generally don't use public gyms because there is no such thing as a profitable public gym that offers good training due to simple numbers (iirc you need 5 fighters for a single elite coach to turn a profit, which results in shitty training -- 3 a session isn't great and any more is terrible).

i think we are pretty much saying the same thing...and yes, 3+ sessions isnt good. i've got guys that are 4 months old and only have around 33 or 34% secondaries from training public gyms. but they all have around 39 to 43% primaries. which is a little uplifting i guess

[MMATycoon]

How about people paying to use a sauna to cut more weight? Maybe if people miss that normal weight so they're on that message "X struggled to make weight and had to go to the sauna" they have to go to a random public gym in that city and use their sauna for ~$50? Would be very easy to program.

[Showdown]

How about people paying to use a sauna to cut more weight? Maybe if people miss that normal weight so they're on that message "X struggled to make weight and had to go to the sauna" they have to go to a random public gym in that city and use their sauna for ~$50? Would be very easy to program.

 

 

I think that would be cool, but I don't see a lot of people struggling to make weight, so I don't know if it would actually add any incentive for gym owners. It would be cool as far as just an added thing to the game, though. You probably have better data, since I'm just going by what I've seen.

 

By the way, I believe the overwhelming majority of us still love this game and think you have been doing a great job with it. Not everyone always agrees on changes, and some people will complain about anything, but don't let negativity get you down too much. A lot of the happy players don't voice opinions all that much, so it might give you the impression that EVERYBODY is upset.

[Guest]

How about people paying to use a sauna to cut more weight? Maybe if people miss that normal weight so they're on that message "X struggled to make weight and had to go to the sauna" they have to go to a random public gym in that city and use their sauna for ~$50? Would be very easy to program.

yea that sounds like a good idea and if it's easy to program then why not? the only hurdle i see with it is that most public gyms have a cap on fighters so that they can keep the lowest possible fighter to coach ratio, and sometimes they are full. so maybe if there was some way that ppl could use the sauna at a public gym and not actually count towards the members cap? if they forget to hit the sauna then when the game sees that they arent gonna make weight then it automatically sends them to a public sauna randomly? --- would prevent some NC's too. which would be good

[MMATycoon]

Thanks Showdown. I know most people aren't complaining so I can just about keep sane It's actually more seeing the enormous workload of about 4 months of work that different people think all needs doing right now, that gets overwhelming

 

I was just thinking about this idea a bit more. How about this;

 

1. If you need to cut weight at all, you do that at your own gym if you're in the right city and they have a sauna built. For that you would pay a small fee. $10.

2. If you are in the wrong city or don't have a gym at all, you do this in a random public gym and pay a day pass which has nothing to do with the cap. $50.

 

Problems:

- If you're doing a QFC that's your whole wage. We could just increase the pay for QFCs by doubling it. People doing QFCs won't be travelling though and would probably be in a gym with a sauna anyway.

- People would have to build a sauna in their gyms. Possible issues with cost and capacity? Maybe we have different capacity saunas then if they're full people would just use Cozad.

 

Other options:

No fee for #1 above. That might mean small private gyms don't build a sauna and just use the ones at the public gyms because that works out as more cost effective.

[Guest]

Thanks Showdown. I know most people aren't complaining so I can just about keep sane It's actually more seeing the enormous workload of about 4 months of work that different people think all needs doing right now, that gets overwhelming

 

I was just thinking about this idea a bit more. How about this;

 

- If you need to cut weight at all, you do that at your own gym if you're in the right city and they have a sauna built. For that you would pay a small fee. $10.

- If you are in the wrong city or don't have a gym at all, you do this in a random public gym and pay a day pass which has nothing to do with the cap. $50.

 

yea that sounds cool. but in the local rec center where im at they only charge $5 for a day pass . but i guess this game operates under condenced time. so im convinced --- would this be something that would be a repeated process over a few days? or just a one time deal where you can cut so much weight in a sauna and that's it

Problems:

- If you're doing a QFC that's your whole wage. We could just increase the pay for QFCs by doubling it.

- People would have to build a sauna in their gyms. Possible issues with capacity? Maybe we have different capacity saunas then if they're full people would just use Cozad.

the increase in qfc pay would be awesome whether sauna's come in or not. really, i'd just like to see the starting out wage for LV fighters be raised in general anyways. it would take some of the stress off of the new org owners in that city. without writing out a bunch of explanation i can tell you it's really imbalanced right now...the other day i got a 300/300/300 offer. i wanted to tell the guy that he couldnt do that. i felt so bad for him because i knew that he didnt have the money to offer more, but really has no choice. if fighters came in with a little more money in there pockets then they could support some of these smaller upstart bussiness like a brand new org or a $150-$200 gym. currently they just start out in a $25 gym and then jump to a $600 gym completely skipping everything in between

[MMATycoon]

currently they just start out in a $25 gym and then jump to a $600 gym completely skipping everything in between

That's a lack of decent mid range gyms, I think. I tried to run a $350 a week gym just to see if I could. It's turning a $3500 a week profit without vending, so it can totally be done and the training on offer is a prefectly good level. What I'm saying is people shouldn't be scared to make a gym even now

 

If we increase the wage for QFCs, would people just do QFCs instead of fighting in the orgs at all?

 

 

As for the pass, I just meant a one time thing. Programming wise it would be paid at fight time.

[Showdown]

if fighters came in with a little more money in there pockets then they could support some of these smaller upstart bussiness like a brand new org or a $150-$200 gym. currently they just start out in a $25 gym and then jump to a $600 gym completely skipping everything in between

 

 

Part of this problem is there doesn't seem to be a lot of in-between gyms at all, which kinda stems from the original problem of there not being enough public gyms in the first place, I guess. But also, one thing I have noticed is that there aren't many gym owners taking Mike Tycoon's original advice of hiring coaches at less than Elite. One of the reasons he changed gym training was so that people could afford to hire lower-level coaches, while providing just as much benefit to lower-skilled fighters as Elites would. I think I might be one of the few people who even caught on to how that works.

[Guest]

That's a lack of decent mid range gyms, I think. I tried to run a $350 a week gym just to see if I could. It's turning a $3500 a week profit without vending, so it can totally be done and the training on offer is a prefectly good level. What I'm saying is people shouldn't be scared to make a gym even now

did you run it under MMATycoon or an alias? because that makes a difference. Joe Hickorysmoke just doesnt have the same drawing power as you do, ya know --- i have to refer back to my remarks earlier in the thread. if ppl used mid level gyms then ppl would create mid level gyms. i actually tried to make a go at a mid level gym myself after i restarted. because i thought that all that the game needed was an example. then it'd latch on. so i was gonna go with the stair step approach. having a new coach each 20%. i figured that if i could be enthusiastic enough to get ppl to set there schedules with the appropriate coaches then it'd work like a charm. i never got the chance. waiting on members to join is like being in a ghost town

 

 

 

If we increase the wage for QFCs, would people just do QFCs instead of fighting in the orgs at all?

im not certain. it's a tricky thing. i personally like the idea of raising the initial starting money. but thinking about it, that kind of takes away the thrill of getting that first contract. which should be the first time that a fighter really gets any kind of sniff at actual living money. so maybe what i'd like to see more than anything is the maximum loan money be increased a bit? in all honesty, i think that fear of losing it all keeps a lot of ppl from trying new things

[Kronix]

First of I want to say we do appreciate all of your work mike and belive that when ppl try to air their thoughts its not to critize your work but more to try and help the game to become even better. Some just dont know how to write it without being offensive and making everyone completely miss the point. (and there is an asswhole every now and then as well ofc)

 

So I hope you do bare with us as this is a fantastic game but it is in need of some tweaking here and there.

 

From reading the forums there are some good ideas out there but I'm not sure how a sauna would make anything better at all. I dont know about the rest of you guys but not once have I had trouble making weight for a fight. I always go in a 100% energy and becouse I'm in the right weight class I have no issue with this. So this would not make any difference for me and I would still keep my training private. Why? cuz I dont benefit at all from having it public I loose out on it. I have to find another private gym to have my fighters in becouse having a public one would suck so much more. Again the gym changes that were made are really awesome and the training is even better now. But this is only to the private gyms. As another person stated before, It takes 5 person JUST to cover the coaches fee and then your training is already declining and you also have to cover cleaning cost and gym equipment aswell after that its not a whole lot left as a profit. So for every coach you have you need 5 fighters (5x12 = 60). There for a low cap gym is not possible unless you get funding from some where else.

 

The profit is not really the issue either. As long as I break even and can have my guys get the best training I can afford then I'm happy. But what I dont want to do is go minus, have bad training and nothing to benefit from letting others train at my gym.

 

Before the changes were made I came up with an idea of maybe adding some sort of vip sections to the gyms where a small number of clients could train in a packed gym, say one hour before or later... heck even the same time. They might have to pay more but they get to use the VIP area (using the same coaches for simplicity) And getting the lower fighter to coach ratio. This would make me take my gym public. I dont lose out on getting the best training for my own fighters as well as being able to keep the gym open for the public without it hurting me financialy or in the form of worse work out for my fighters.

 

The sauna might be a great addition to the whole gym concept but its not going to make me as a gym owner want to make it public.

 

The problem with mid range gyms is that it only works for early stage fighters. Most of us that run gyms have fighters that are older and are in the upper echelon in their skills. Now why would I want to have a gym with competent coaches when my guys are around exceptional and needs an elite coach? hiring coaches is expensive & I wouldnt want to change them that often. Elite coaches can traing useless fighters as well as exceptional while as competent coaches only can teach useless fighters.

 

Sorry for the long post and that it might sound negative. I assure you that is not my intensions I'm just trying to make the point clear why there is no public gyms. Its not benefital to anyone that owns the gym. I'm not going to scratch some one elses back unless I too can benefit from it. Only way to get that at the moment is to stay private. Rent out the remaining spots to managers who can afford it. You earn money & you get the best training. Why go public? I just dont see the benefits from it

[Guest]

He ran it as his current name. The cleanliness was lacking and I think the equipment was deteriorated last time I was in it. That seems to be fixed now. If the skills you want to train are below strong it is probably a pretty good gym, other than the ratio not being that great with about 5.5 per coach.

 

If QFC profits were doubled, I don't see it making any difference. Contracts given out to new fighters should be probably 10x what that is, but I guess if the org will only give them a fight once a month, qfcs might bring in more money at that point if they can somehow get the 10 fights in during that time.

 

Although, using 106456 as the number of qfc fights booked, that would be nearly $16 million extra if it were doubled since the beginning. Sounds like a bit, but that is after 106456 fights. (This does not account for draws.)

 

About the Sauna, does a higher weight really even help much? I have a fighter that weighs 202 and he seems to be doing alright at 205. Although he used to be 207. He won 100% of his fights by KO at 207 and he is a little over 50% on stoppages at 202. This disparity could be due to the low sample size since he only did the 1 fight at 207.

 

 

I'm not going to scratch some one elses back unless I too can benefit from it. Only way to get that at the moment is to stay private. Rent out the remaining spots to managers who can afford it. You earn money & you get the best training. Why go public? I just dont see the benefits from it

Think I have said this a couple times. Running a public gym is basically throwing away 1 month of VIP (per year) to help others.

[Kronix]

Lets put it in a different prespective that most people understand. Money!

 

When I started out my gym business I started in sydney and back then it was public and sydney was screaming for a public gym. I made good profit from the gym about $4000-6000 a week and this was not a 12 gym coach with $600 weekly fee. I had about 3-4 coaches and a few sparbots as the sparbots was really my thing in sydney. This was great in the begining cuz the gym payed for my other fighters being able to go to the $600 gyms around the globe.

 

After a while I decided I wanted to move base to New york cuz that was the majority of were my fighters were (I wanted my fighters to benefit from me owning a gym and paying to myself instead of paying to others) and I learned about private gyms and thought. Hey why not see if I can do that too... and I haven't looked back since.

 

Now for the figures.

 

My sydney gym earned me around $4000-6000 a week. That was very good income for a gym.

 

Now I have my private gym. I have 2 clients that rent coaches from me but I own 5 of the coaches myself.

 

Now my total coach pay each week is $18250 to be able to have those coaches. I earn virtual nothing from my 2 costumers as all they pay is the fee for their own coaches (no extra charge) and the $250 gym fee I have. So my earning depends on how many of their fighters are training. Now if I wanted to I could earn a lot more but I dont need to. I can cover my own bills and I'm happy with that. Training is all that mathers, money in mmatycoon has no real worth.

 

So instead of earning $4000-6000 each week in profit I'm losing $18250 out of my own free will. I'm freely losing money to be able to provide good training for my 11 fighters (I have 4 sparbots so they do not train there for 11 not 15). You might be wondering how I can afford this and its simply from my fighters winning and being able to get good contracts that's all there is to it. I win my fights, I get payed and I can get the best training I want.

 

So clearly the issue is not about earning money from gyms it's about getting the best training and it always has been. Why do you guys think there are so many private gyms and ALL the top managers are using private gyms? It's not cuz of the freaking money, its becouse of the training. That all there is to it. Why else on earth would anyone freely be willing to loose $18250 each week if it was not for the training?