Who really deserves the shot at GSP?

[SonnyMuchacho]

Anyone who thinks Diaz doesn't have high level striking is either kidding themselves or just blinded by their hatred of his attitude.

Of course he deserves the title shot, he deserved it before he missed the press conference and he still deserves it now. GSP has a more pure wrestling style but the high level of Gracie Jits Nick posses won't let GSP keep him down. And we all saw what the lackluster hands of Shields dis to GSP when he finally turned them on. Nick will have shredded George beyond recognition before the 5th round.

Lol but to answer the original question it seems like the logical answer would be to give Condit the shot if it's soon, but if it's going to be 4 or more months for GSP to get over his devastating hangnail injury then obviously the fans deserve Condit/Diaz for th true #1 contender.

[ringfinger]

Anyone who thinks Diaz doesn't have high level striking is either kidding themselves or just blinded by their hatred of his attitude.

Of course he deserves the title shot, he deserved it before he missed the press conference and he still deserves it now. GSP has a more pure wrestling style but the high level of Gracie Jits Nick posses won't let GSP keep him down. And we all saw what the lackluster hands of Shields dis to GSP when he finally turned them on. Nick will have shredded George beyond recognition before the 5th round.

Lol but to answer the original question it seems like the logical answer would be to give Condit the shot if it's soon, but if it's going to be 4 or more months for GSP to get over his devastating hangnail injury then obviously the fans deserve Condit/Diaz for th true #1 contender.

 

Hehe emotions are high on this matchup. Can't wait for the forum betting when this goes down.

[Guest]

for the record, diaz has pretty horrible striking defense. he's good at punches-in-bunches and throwing accurate shots, but he gets hit a lot and his reach is a huge reason why he's successful. take away his reach advantage and he's just an above-average striker (if you don't count kicks, since he almost never kicks and when he does it's just to mix things up and not to do any actual damage) with average-to-below-average defense.

 

I wouldn't even give him "above average". Like I say, he does *nothing* right with regards to his boxing, not one single thing, he just has a lot of natural physical gifts that enable him to do damage when he aimlessly flails at his opponents when they stop moving. If you took away his chin then he wouldn't be able to eat counter punches and keep moving forward the way he does, if you take away his his cardio he wouldn't be able to throw the number of flurries he does and if you took away his natural physical strength his strikes wouldn't generate any power at all since he throws punches terribly. He would be absolutely useless on the feet if he wasn't gifted athletically/physically. His entire success as a striker is down to his physical attributes, not at all down to his technique. If he made the move into pro boxing he'd have been exposed within 4 fights.

 

Now all that asside, the physical gifts he does have are absolutely remarkable and its certainly a huge credit to him how much heart, determination and relentlessness he brings to fights. It just bugs me when people accuse him of having "fantastic" boxing when he flat out sucks at it.

[Guest]

-stuff-

 

Pretty much agree.

 

Even if his hands were the best thing since sliced bread his defense is still so atrocious it's impossible to call him a good boxer, let alone a fantastic one.

 

The reason he's so effective is tactics and cardio\genetics. Being completely fearless and having the looming threat of an excellent ground game also helps.

[Guest]

Diaz is a swarmer. It's the philosophy that the best defense is offense. They throw a high volume of punches and even though there's not much power behind them, they add up. It's known that swarmers usually do good against boxers, but poorly against sluggers, who in their turn tend to do poorly against boxers. Margarito beats Cotto, Mosley beats Margarito, Cotto beats Mosley. Penn and Diaz both have good striking. I don't think there's that big of a gap between the two, but stylistically it turned out well for Diaz.

 

It's not the first good striker that Diaz got the better off. He beat Noons. He's a good striker and a lot better than George.

[SonnyMuchacho]

"Nick has good hands, some of the best hands in MMA." -Andre Ward

 

 

I'm gonna go ahead and take his word for it.

[Guest]

"Nick has good hands, some of the best hands in MMA." -Andre Ward

 

 

I'm gonna go ahead and take his word for it.

Let's be honest. Andre Ward is his training buddy so that's means shit. Roach said that Penn has the best boxing in MMA and he got beat decisively 3 times of the last 4 fights on the feet. I agree that Diaz has good hands and only an idiot thinks that he hasn't.

[Guest]

"Nick has good hands, some of the best hands in MMA." -Andre Ward

 

 

I'm gonna go ahead and take his word for it.

 

Nice appeal to authority.

 

Having good hands in a MMA context =/= having good boxing.

[Guest]

GSP's striking is head and shoulders above Noons and Penn, he's just been uber cautious for so long people have forgot how effective he can be when he lets stuff go. GSP is a mirror opposite to Diaz on the feet. Superb technique, very well rounded striker but very, very cautious. GSP has comparable cardio and even better natural athleticism than Diaz, but nowhere near Diaz's punch resistance. I think GSP outclasses Diaz anywhere the fight goes but he wont hurt him or come close to finishing him. Diaz faces GSP with little more than a punchers chance, and given how wild he is I'd be extremely suprised if he can find GSP over 25 minutes. I guess we'll find out in the next 3/4 months so I'll say no more on it for now and be back with either a very smug "I told you so" or a large helping of humble pie when it is all said and done!!!

[SonnyMuchacho]

GSP's striking is head and shoulders above Noons and Penn, he's just been uber cautious for so long people have forgot how effective he can be when he lets stuff go. GSP is a mirror opposite to Diaz on the feet. Superb technique, very well rounded striker...

What?? Gsp's striking is greater thane Noons and BJ?? Well rounded?? I'm going to LOL and leave it that.

 

Nice appeal to authority.

 

Having good hands in a MMA context =/= having good boxing.

 

my bad. Thought we were in a MMA forum talking about an MMA fight.

[Guest]

GSP's striking is head and shoulders above Noons and Penn

He's a better basketball player than LeBron James too.

[Guest]

diaz, hes my favourite fighter, I.love how he fails to turn up to the press, interviews extent

 

and I love how he has a really bad attitude problem, like as hes pounding some guy he will say "you like that motherfucker?"

 

hes just an all round bad ass, I love it!

[SonnyMuchacho]

diaz, hes my favourite fighter, I.love how he fails to turn up to the press, interviews extent

 

and I love how he has a really bad attitude problem, like as hes pounding some guy he will say "you like that motherfucker?"

 

hes just an all round bad ass, I love it!

 

Totally. I hate it when fighters show up to fight. I'd waaaaay rather see great linguists who can spar safely for 25 minutes.

 

 

Edit: yes I was joking (for those of us who haven't had enough coffee yet)

[Guest]

Diaz is a top fighter, but I do get what everyone is saying against him. His technique is sloppy at best, but it works. Diaz wins because his exceptional cardio and chin let him throw punch after punch for the whole fight once he has backed his opponent against the cage, always staying in the pocket. People say he has the best boxing due to the use of the varied strikes and body shots which MMA fighters rarely utilise

 

Technically is his boxing great? No

 

Is he the best technical striker in MMA? No

 

Is it one of the most exciting styles to watch and is it very effective for him? Yes

 

There are far technically superior strikers in the fight world, but there are very few that are as effective as him standing when you take all his attributes into account

 

Oh and for the record, I can't stand Diaz. I think he is a whining douche who needs to shut up about 'being paid' and get on with it. Again just my personal opinion, and both him and his brother should fight until both their jaws break permanently, but there is no denying that no matter how technically imperfect his striking is it works and works very very well

[AlexiZaitev]

Diaz is a top fighter, but I do get what everyone is saying against him. His technique is sloppy at best, but it works. Diaz wins because his exceptional cardio and chin let him throw punch after punch for the whole fight once he has backed his opponent against the cage, always staying in the pocket. People say he has the best boxing due to the use of the varied strikes and body shots which MMA fighters rarely utilise

 

Technically is his boxing great? No

 

Is he the best technical striker in MMA? No

 

Is it one of the most exciting styles to watch and is it very effective for him? Yes

 

There are far technically superior strikers in the fight world, but there are very few that are as effective as him standing when you take all his attributes into account

 

Oh and for the record, I can't stand Diaz. I think he is a whining douche who needs to shut up about 'being paid' and get on with it. Again just my personal opinion, and both him and his brother should fight until both their jaws break permanently, but there is no denying that no matter how technically imperfect his striking is it works and works very very well

I agree 100% with this, and in reference to what other people said about MMA fighters who have good hands but they wouldnt be good boxers, thats because boxing requires ridiculous head movement

(ala Silva), lots of movement (ala Edgar), tight crisp punches (BJ and maybe rampage) usually all in one package for the creme de la creme of boxing. But then again i know nothing about boxers and very little about MMA so my opinion is almost useless

[Guest]

What?? Gsp's striking is greater thane Noons and BJ?? Well rounded?? I'm going to LOL and leave it that.

 

 

 

my bad. Thought we were in a MMA forum talking about an MMA fight.

 

Watch some of GSP's older fights, watch him train with Freddie Roach in boxing as well as his regular camp work on muay thai and tae kwon do, learn a little bit about boxing and other striking sports and why there's a lot more to the MMA striking game than the 100mph brawling that Nick Diaz brings to the table (as effective as it may look against lesser opponents and for 2 rounds against a blown up on the way legend), then maybe I will take your attempts to condescend to me a little more seriously.

 

BJ is a very good boxer but a limited striker. Noons is 2 levels below being even a contender in the UFC's 170 division.

[Guest]

There are far technically superior strikers in the fight world, but there are very few that are as effective as him standing when you take all his attributes into account

 

Now that I agree with, though I think you'll see him exposed when he goes against a legit top level and well rounded Welterweight. I could be wrong, but I'll bet my mortgage on GSP miping the floor with him.

[SonnyMuchacho]

Watch some of GSP's older fights, watch him train with Freddie Roach in boxing as well as his regular camp work on muay thai and tae kwon do, learn a little bit about boxing and other striking sports and why there's a lot more to the MMA striking game than the 100mph brawling that Nick Diaz brings to the table (as effective as it may look against lesser opponents and for 2 rounds against a blown up on the way legend), then maybe I will take your attempts to condescend to me a little more seriously.

 

BJ is a very good boxer but a limited striker. Noons is 2 levels below being even a contender in the UFC's 170 division.

 

please give a fight example of gsp's wondrous standup. He is not a standup artist. Please stop trying to sell him as such.

 

And I'd LOVE to see gsp box with Noons. Highly doubt he'd last 3 rounds with headgear and pillow gloves.

[HumanGoing]

please give a fight example of gsp's wondrous standup. He is not a standup artist. Please stop trying to sell him as such.

 

And I'd LOVE to see gsp box with Noons. Highly doubt he'd last 3 rounds with headgear and pillow gloves.

 

His jab was pretty effective against Koschek...

[Guest]

GSP is pretty much the premier example of a complete martial artist. He holds black belts in multiple arts of both stand up and ground fighting and works extensively on several stand up combat sports encorperating as much as possible into his style. His plan A is not stand up (especially since the first fight with Serra) but he is trained in such a way that he is prepared for any instnace in any position. The way he wins each fight is testament to how well rounded he is. He always finds an area to not just win but totally dominate a fight in. With Hardy and Alves it was his wrestling, with Koscheck and Sheilds it was his boxing/kickboxing. To answer your question GSP absolutely bombardred Mayhem, Sherk and Hughes (2nd fight) in all areas including very notably on the feet.

[Erik]

His jab was pretty effective against Koschek...

 

Yes but Koscheck only seems to know how to throw one punch, and even then he doesn't throw it very well.

[Eveas]

GSP is pretty much the premier example of a complete martial artist. He holds black belts in multiple arts of both stand up and ground fighting and works extensively on several stand up combat sports encorperating as much as possible into his style. His plan A is not stand up (especially since the first fight with Serra) but he is trained in such a way that he is prepared for any instnace in any position. The way he wins each fight is testament to how well rounded he is. He always finds an area to not just win but totally dominate a fight in. With Hardy and Alves it was his wrestling, with Koscheck and Sheilds it was his boxing/kickboxing. To answer your question GSP absolutely bombardred Mayhem, Sherk and Hughes (2nd fight) in all areas including very notably on the feet.

This pretty much says it all.

[DeadlyDirk]

Condit deserves it because the fight might be vaguely competitive, hell I'd say he even has a chance, Diaz while impressing me against Penn won't even take a round of GSP. GSP will take him down at will and is too well vexed in submissions to be caught out by the ground game of Diaz so he'll simply control him, pound on him and earn a comfortable decision win.

 

Diaz's only chance is to goad him into his kind of fight and it might be an interesting standup battle but GSP I'm sure will take the safest and most sensible option.

 

Part of me wants Diaz to get inside GSP's head, throw him off his gameplan and try and drag GSP into a war which I think could bring the very best out of GSP but if a few months of doing a show with Kosheck didn't effect his gameplan then I don't see Diaz doing it either.

 

As much as I don't find GSP the most entertaining fighter at the moment compared to some of his earlier fights I do really admire how he can identify an opponent's weakness, come up with a game plan and completely dominate people.

[Guest]

While I hate Diaz outside the cage I like watching him fight and would love to see him beat GSP. I doubt it will happen though, GSP can control him on the ground and if he had to he could probably decision him on the feet with some careful gameplanning. If GSP decides he doesn't want to take Diaz down I think he makes the wrong move though, I'd say the chances of him getting caught standing are much greater. Condit is probably much more capable of taking GSP out with one big shot but on the other hand he poses less of a threat from his back so I think GSP using his wrestling is a given in that fight and therefore Condit has less of a chance at an upset than Diaz.

[Eveas]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/776229/Akiyama_welterweight_medium.jpg

170 is not a very sexy weight for Akiyama.