ChrisPartridge Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Now I'm not one who likes to bitch about fights. I've won and lost in ways that potentially I don't agree with. But I had a fight today that is still leaving me scratching my head. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=473051 Essentially what you can see is my fighter gets clocked instantly by Manhoef. He stands up and takes a leg kick that lead to the text "Peck looks gassed" . Obviously very quickly afterwards he gets fully knocked out, I punch a few holes in a wall, and we move down to the fight stats. What stood out to me is that in an 11 second fight, my fighter with Elite + conditioning, coming into the fight with full energy was reduced to essentially nothing. Now I've lost fights quickly before but never have I seen an energy loss this significant so I figured I'd at least bring it up to the community and see if anyone had any knowledge that I may be overlooking. Have a good evening ladies and gents. -Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJones Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 A big part of the fight engine works on random numbers so it looks to me like your opponent just got a couple extremely good rolls back to back before you were able to do anything. Not much you can do about that, just bad luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPartridge Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I can understand the quick ko. Randomness happens. But no randomness should result in a fighter to be near 100% depleted of energy after 11 seconds and 5 total strikes. I don't expect perfect realism, it is a game at the end of the day. But the resulting energy loss is just ludicrous to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I think that when the engine says you are gassed after a leg kick it implies an injury. I have a fighter with a horrible injury hidden who gassed after a leg kick a few times. He always had a 16 day injury later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPartridge Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Perhaps. Again I'm not discounting that there could be a legitimate part of the engine that lead to this. More than anything I just wanted to get some community feedback on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topologies Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I think it's because of the leg kicks followed by "Peck looks gassed!" line which means he has been injured or his energy might have gone to 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp61503 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 i have had energy issues of similiar situations, i recently had an elite cardio guy fight a non elite cardio guy, throw fewer strikes, defend no takedowns, and he had a much bigger energy loss and very very quick he had no energy after like 2 mins, its not like he was aggressive he was set to be quite the opposite too.... i have felt a few times like there may be something wrong with energy that has led to losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 It's because your guy was rocked I think. Energy does decay way too fast in this game at high levels of cardio though. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 The way i look at it and relate it to real life is body shots. Most of the time they dont do much but accumulate over the course of the fight and gradually tire you out. But every now and again someone gets dropped like Scott Smith vs Pete Sell or McCarthy vs The Crow and tons of other times. When this happens lots of times they are incompacitated and often finished very soon after. I dont have no problem with this but i believe it should be a hidden. Some people are weak to the body in real life and some are not. I dont believe this should be something that randomly pops up in every fighters fights. It shoul dbe like the chin Hidden. Remember Cody Mackenzie last fight where he was dropped with a body shot and finished? I think it would be misleading to refer to that as "Rocked". His equalibrium was fine. His head was clear. But that shot took everything out of him and he was in trouble like someone who got rocked. He needed time to recover. Maybe this is what that is. Lets just hope it is something in the fighters because 90% of fighters are not weak to the body. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 i'd put money on that guy swinging huge damage look at his previous fights he fights the exact same way Melvin actually fights lol. Nothing you could really do about it you got caught early with big shots and it was all downhill after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I think that when the engine says you are gassed after a leg kick it implies an injury. I have a fighter with a horrible injury hidden who gassed after a leg kick a few times. He always had a 16 day injury later. I think it's because of the leg kicks followed by "Peck looks gassed!" line which means he has been injured or his energy might have gone to 0. Injuries are calculated after the fight and has no bearing on the fight itself. i'd put money on that guy swinging huge damage Bingo. Melvin Manhoef could well score a knockout today. He has the power to get to Templeton Peck's chin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Totally appears to be damage related. Another thing to keep in mind, I think getting rocked takes a bunch of energy too. Couple that with brutal leg kicks and your fighter had nothing left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topologies Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Injuries are calculated after the fight and has no bearing on the fight itself. I'm not saying it's the injury that's counted as days after the fight. I have seen fighters get gassed and just get beaten like dummies. It was a very big issue before but it has been toned down now. He may not have recovered from the powerful leg kick he has received. I'm just saying that having an "injury" caused by a body shot or leg kick = 0 energy in the fight engine. Getting injured by leg kicks or getting a broken rib from a body shot in fights will make you sit out and not train for certain number days or even months irl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 So by "injury", you don't actually mean "injury" but "loss of energy"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topologies Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 So by "injury", you don't actually mean "injury" but "loss of energy"? yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrash Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I can understand the quick ko. Randomness happens. But no randomness should result in a fighter to be near 100% depleted of energy after 11 seconds and 5 total strikes. I don't expect perfect realism, it is a game at the end of the day. But the resulting energy loss is just ludicrous to me. Could just be a liver kick. One good liver kick and it doesn't matter how good your conditioning is, you're going to be gassed That goes for any random lucky punch/kick. You could have great conditioning but if your opponent lands that one body punch/kick at the perfect time in the perfect spot, that 100% energy is going to go to 0% energy really quickly. The question is how often does this happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPartridge Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 A body kick for sure. But a leg kick? I don't care how high damage he was, I'd like to think that a combination of his conditioning/kick skill/muay thai would help mitigate the energy loss or affect from the kick. I just don't think I've ever seen a situation where so few strikes ; completely devoid of body strikes caused such a massive drop in energy. The fact that I was rocked was certainly a factor but I haven't seen another example of being rocked or an early ko resulting in what happened here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topologies Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 See urijah faber vs. Jose aldo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 A body kick for sure. But a leg kick? I don't care how high damage he was, I'd like to think that a combination of his conditioning/kick skill/muay thai would help mitigate the energy loss or affect from the kick. I just don't think I've ever seen a situation where so few strikes ; completely devoid of body strikes caused such a massive drop in energy. The fact that I was rocked was certainly a factor but I haven't seen another example of being rocked or an early ko resulting in what happened here. Could well be that it was a straw breaking the camel's back issue. Whatever threshold is necessary to bring up the 'gassed' comment was nearly reached by the knockdown/rock/cut strike, and the leg kick just pushed it across the threshold. Anecdotal-ly, I think I've seen a couple times after a knockdown/rocked strike, that the first strike to land after that brings up the 'gassed' 'breathing heavily' type comment. So it might just be a bit of lag in the text being spit out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPartridge Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Urijah Faber vs Aldo isn't exactly a stunning example. That was a high level Muay Thai guy decimating Fabers legs with heavy but accumulative leg kicks. This fight was a high level MT guy losing a fair amount of energy from one kick by a lesser MT fighter (or potentially a lagged comment from being dropped/rocked). NotwaInc I've seen similar situations when it happens early but the fighter who gets finished early still is usually around the 75-50% energy range. Not dropped to next to nothing. Sadly its leaning more and more to this was just perhaps the worst roll of the dice I've suffered in this game. Only made a point of it because I've been here over 3 years and never seen an past example of this. See something new every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Leg kicks in this game engine basically translate to sapping energy. It was the way that Mike coded this to simulate the effect of leg kicks. Personally I think that leg kicks should sap speed more than energy, but without a major rewrite there is little that can be done to change that. The opponent was swinging for huge amounts of damage and he landed a few early on. That was just too much for your boy. Up your SD and make some changes in the slider settings, like maybe going less aggressive and you would probably see the other guy missing a lot more and you being able to capitalize on the increased missed shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I wonder with a fighter rocked if ensuing damage gains some sort of multiplier? So a leg kick to a rocked opponent is doing significantly more damage than a leg kick to an opponent who is fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPartridge Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Very little Peck can go with his striking defence unless the skill cap is raised. Hard to really pin it on slider issues in an 11 second fight. Peck just seems to be rather chinny and got caught early. There's perhaps a chance that leg/body strikes do have more impact directly after someone is rocked but who knows. *For the record as far as slider settings go I was 55% counter which is low for what I typically run. So it wasn't a case of being aggressive and getting caught. It was just a huge combo landing early and it being game over* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I wonder with a fighter rocked if ensuing damage gains some sort of multiplier? So a leg kick to a rocked opponent is doing significantly more damage than a leg kick to an opponent who is fine? I don't think it multiplies damage, but as your energy drops off you get less accurate and throw with less power etc. You are also slower and less effective at defense. Meaning that you are opened up to a shot landing cleaner on you and ending the fight. It's the same reason you don't want to go into a fight at less than 100% energy. Basically (this may not be the exact formula but it would be the most logical one) if your energy is at 90% then your all your skills are multiplied by .9 to determine their effective number. So when the guy got gassed early on and his energy dropped to say 40% then he was operating at only 40% effectiveness and therefor was taking more and more damage, more shots landing etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp61503 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 what about something like this, my guys today did the same training, they sparred together, my elite cardio guy lost more energy then the ones with less good cardio.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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