Jon Fitch Cut from UFC

[Guest]

What point? That Dana forged his Drug test? The "educated fan" [80% of them that still "boo" grappling and just want fighters to bleed]? Or that an eighth of an ounce of hemp per day is medicinal? Dude, thats a lot. Thats "ME GET MUCHO LOCO!" use.

 

Riddle sounds like a fucking idiot

 

Riddle is soundign like a

 

that dave herman also failed two drug tests for weed, has lost several fights in a row, but still has a job. also the fact that riddle usually fought against his strengths to be "entertaining"...and the one time he fought intelligently and won using a good gameplan, he was criticized for being boring and then cut. did you read the whole article?

[barney]

that dave herman also failed two drug tests for weed, has lost several fights in a row, but still has a job. also the fact that riddle usually fought against his strengths to be "entertaining"...and the one time he fought intelligently and won using a good gameplan, he was criticized for being boring and then cut. did you read the whole article?

 

No, I just quote shit he said from different parts of the article cause I have psychic powers.

 

FEAR MY FEEBLE PSYCHIC POWEEEERS

[AK47]

riddle smells like eggs , so good decision by dana

[Guest]

To be fair Herman IS in a way more shallow division.

 

I thought he got cut after Nog armbarred him though?

[Guest]

This is exactly my point. Do you get punished in basketball or hockey or baseball for not putting showmanship and flash into your performances? No. If you win, you get rewarded. If you lose, you don't. It is complete WWE-style garbage to claim that you need to win with flair.

 

I seriously don't understand how you are accusing other people of being fanboys. A lot of the people here are advocating for success to be measured by whether you win or lose. You are the one who worships an unskilled brawler who could only win in an era when most fighters were one-trick ponies. You sound like one of the jacked-up Gino's in an Ed Hardy t-shirt who have no respect for the sport but just want to see a brawl. However, from other things you've said, I know that it is far more likely that you're a toothless redneck sitting on his porch in boxers and a wife beater, shotgun in one hand, bottle of JD in the other.

 

 

How many times you going to keep bring up stupid arguements that dont apply. Maybe you should watch old IFL tapes and jerk off to the Team concept. MMA is an individual sport. The NBA teams have many other players to make up for the shit head boring players. Also people are more fans of the team than individual players. Of course the exciting players are real popular with fans and get voted to All Star games and slam dunk contests and sell tons of jerseys. Yesh they dont get any special treatment. lol But like said the fans follow the teams. When a star player is lost like Lebron on a bad team. The arena is still almost sold out each game. Also the game is set up to prevent Jon Fitch like people for killing the sport. This is why they added a shot clock. The UFC shouldnt have to implement gay rules that hurt the realism of the sport just because Jon Fitch. Much easier and better for everyone just to tell him to fuck off. Do you want everyone to fight under a 30 second time limit on the ground like Gary Shaw tried to use? Im glad they dont let 1 lame ass ruin the sport for everyone.

[Guest]

I find it ironic you dont compare MMA/UFC to other combat sports. Could that be because a boring fighter no one wants to see would never be given a title shot? Champs have declined opponents many times because they were boring or wouldnt sell. Compare apples to apples and stop beign a drama queen. You want Fitch in the UFC. Then you and the other fan boys start paying for his PPVs and buying his merchendise. I buy every UFC so i apparently support Fitch more than most others. But if you and others supported him there would be no reason to release him. You can cry all you want but the UFC and every other sport is a business. Unfortunately for the UFC a boring fighter who is no longer great hurts the business and the sport more than a boring player in another sport. Tim Duncan being boring and emotionless as paint has little impact on the NBA or his teams bottom line. But in the UFC we see first hand how big an effect of a boring fighter has. You see it in the PPV buy rate fluctuations. GSP vs Fitch did 625K buys WITH Brock Lesnar on the card. HE did 750 with Hughes, 920 with Penn, 770 vs Hardy, 800 vs Koscheck, 800 vs Shields, 700 vs Condit. Its clear Fitch was killing business that all the fighters and fans depend on.

[toejam98]

Dana cut him because he wasn't worth to the UFC what he was worth somewhere else. Dana never said he isn't good enough to fight in the UFC.

[Guest]

To be fair Herman IS in a way more shallow division.

 

I thought he got cut after Nog armbarred him though?

 

no...he got busted for weed again and they suspended him for like 6 or 9 months...and made him go to "rehab"...

 

dont think the division is really relevant in this case. i actually kind of like dave herman but he has proven he really cant hang in the ufc at this point in time, and it wasnt like he was ultra exciting to watch. riddle was exciting and showed he was becoming a pretty competent fighter. the guy started his career in the ufc for gods sake, and the moment he actually fought with anything resembling a gameplan...he got bashed for it.

[Guest]

Where the hell did i ever say he wasnt good enough for the UFC? Actually i plainly said he was good enough many times. Above, i said he was no longer great. Which he isnt. Like you said he isnt winning and he sure as hell isnt the #2 guy in the division anymore. So he isnt great. But lets be honest. There is lots of guys who are good enough to be in the UFC. But are not given an equal chance. Lets look at Jorge Santiago. The guy kills everyone outside the UFC(24-6). But gets his ass kicked in the UFC going 1-5. He has a suspect chin and everyone including the UFC know it. So who does he get to fight? Stann, Belcher, Leben. Then he gets a highly regarded prospect in Nelson and top ranked Maia. He will never even get a chance to stay in the UFC. No matter how good he is and how many of the top guys he does match up good with. He will never be allowed to win enough fights to even keep his job. I can many many other examples.

 

As much as we would love to just throw the best guys in and let them fight. It can never work like that. We would get a cluster fuck of everyone winning every other fight. Look at Dustin Hazelette. He beat some decent fights and went toe to toe with Koscheck and foguht the top guys. He would rape Leonard Garcia 6 ways from Sunday. But he got released and he retired from MMA at 25 years old and is/was working as an EMS.

 

Because like i said. IF you are the best or one of the best(possible champs) then you are valuable. If you are not then you are just one of 1000 guys who the UFC uses to entertain and test each other to find other champs or future champs. Dustin had a suspect chin and poor wrestling to ever be consistant and a champ. But he was a threat to spoil a lot of better fighters. Just like Santiago was. To run the UFC or any top promotion imo. You cant have to many of those second tier guys like a Santiago or Fitch. Imo they cut off the supply of fresh talent to the Champ. With these career contenders. You can either wait for them to age out and have a stagnant division for 5-6 years and lose promising prospects like Erick Silva. Or when they start to decline you can get them out of the way. Erick Silva might be a average fighter or he could be a beast. We dont know yet. But we do know his style and if he didnt catch Fitch early like Hendricks did(and i assume the UFC expected) then he got controled for a decision. The same thing a Fitch would do to many other great fighters. Simply due to styles. If he doesnt have much of a future why allow him to play spoiler to others who might? As i have shown "Because he is good enough doesnt cut it. Lots of people are good enough for the UFC. I can make anyone look good enough with some selective match making. But in the end it just doesnt make any sense. The UFC doesnt need a 6 figure gate keeper to the belt. It needs to contenders for the belt. Not someone prevent new fighters from getting to the belt. And personally i think one of the reasons the tough decision to let him go was made is Koscheck is in the same boat and has been for a while. Koscheck is better than Fitch in every way from selling fights to entertaining to the competion he has beat. The UFC has to many top ranked guys who have already fought GSP. From Fitch, Kos, Alves, Shields, etc that noone wants to see again. So someone has to go. I think more big names are on the way out too. I wouldnt be surprised if Jake Shields wasnt next. Maybe that win over has been Akiyama will save him. Wee will see.

[Guest]

Where the hell did i ever say he wasnt good enough for the UFC? Actually i plainly said he was good enough many times. Above, i said he was no longer great. Which he isnt. Like you said he isnt winning and he sure as hell isnt the #2 guy in the division anymore. So he isnt great. But lets be honest. There is lots of guys who are good enough to be in the UFC. But are not given an equal chance. Lets look at Jorge Santiago. The guy kills everyone outside the UFC(24-6). But gets his ass kicked in the UFC going 1-5. He has a suspect chin and everyone including the UFC know it. So who does he get to fight? Stann, Belcher, Leben. Then he gets a highly regarded prospect in Nelson and top ranked Maia. He will never even get a chance to stay in the UFC. No matter how good he is and how many of the top guys he does match up good with. He will never be allowed to win enough fights to even keep his job. I can many many other examples.

 

As much as we would love to just throw the best guys in and let them fight. It can never work like that. We would get a cluster fuck of everyone winning every other fight. Look at Dustin Hazelette. He beat some decent fights and went toe to toe with Koscheck and foguht the top guys. He would rape Leonard Garcia 6 ways from Sunday. But he got released and he retired from MMA at 25 years old and is/was working as an EMS.

 

Because like i said. IF you are the best or one of the best(possible champs) then you are valuable. If you are not then you are just one of 1000 guys who the UFC uses to entertain and test each other to find other champs or future champs. Dustin had a suspect chin and poor wrestling to ever be consistant and a champ. But he was a threat to spoil a lot of better fighters. Just like Santiago was. To run the UFC or any top promotion imo. You cant have to many of those second tier guys like a Santiago or Fitch. Imo they cut off the supply of fresh talent to the Champ. With these career contenders. You can either wait for them to age out and have a stagnant division for 5-6 years and lose promising prospects like Erick Silva. Or when they start to decline you can get them out of the way. Erick Silva might be a average fighter or he could be a beast. We dont know yet. But we do know his style and if he didnt catch Fitch early like Hendricks did(and i assume the UFC expected) then he got controled for a decision. The same thing a Fitch would do to many other great fighters. Simply due to styles. If he doesnt have much of a future why allow him to play spoiler to others who might? As i have shown "Because he is good enough doesnt cut it. Lots of people are good enough for the UFC. I can make anyone look good enough with some selective match making. But in the end it just doesnt make any sense. The UFC doesnt need a 6 figure gate keeper to the belt. It needs to contenders for the belt. Not someone prevent new fighters from getting to the belt. And personally i think one of the reasons the tough decision to let him go was made is Koscheck is in the same boat and has been for a while. Koscheck is better than Fitch in every way from selling fights to entertaining to the competion he has beat. The UFC has to many top ranked guys who have already fought GSP. From Fitch, Kos, Alves, Shields, etc that noone wants to see again. So someone has to go. I think more big names are on the way out too. I wouldnt be surprised if Jake Shields wasnt next. Maybe that win over has been Akiyama will save him. Wee will see.

 

Dude, can you ever make a point without writing a LOTR novel everytime you have an argument to make? At the very least make a paragraph or two. That wall of text is too much to bother with. Anyone got cliff notes?

[Guest]

I find it ironic you dont compare MMA/UFC to other combat sports. Could that be because a boring fighter no one wants to see would never be given a title shot? Champs have declined opponents many times because they were boring or wouldnt sell. Compare apples to apples and stop beign a drama queen.

 

Why would I compare to boxing? Boxing is a dead sport because they allowed corruption and greed to destroy the credibility of the sport. Is that what you want MMA to become? You jerk off to Tank Abbott and the original days of the UFC, but the original days of the UFC didn't have matchmakers. They had tournaments. The better fighter advanced regardless of his marketability or whether he fought with flair.

 

Bellator also follows a tournament format. It doesn't matter if you win by KO, submission, or decision. If you win, you advance. If you win three times, you get a title shot.

 

You can cry all you want but the UFC and every other sport is a business. Unfortunately for the UFC a boring fighter who is no longer great hurts the business and the sport more than a boring player in another sport. Tim Duncan being boring and emotionless as paint has little impact on the NBA or his teams bottom line.

 

The Spurs are a boring team. Their style is slow and defensive. The NBA absolutely HATES having them in the Finals. The last time they were in the Finals, they scored an average of 6.2 in the Neilson ratings. Since then, the Lakers or the Heat have been in the Finals every year and the ratings have all been over 10.

 

Even when you break it down by players, Jordan's 3peat before his retirement in 96-98 scored 16.7, 16.8, and 18.7. The next year, with the Spurs in the Finals, it dropped to 11.3. However, despite these massive ratings differences, the NBA allows winners to advance and losers to drop out, even when it costs the league millions of dollars.

[Guest]

Weird. Today I was watching Bellator Season 2 today and I came across an interview with Bjorn Rebney where he basically said exactly what I've been saying. I put it on Youtube

 

http://youtu.be/1DLlCh41GjU

[Guest]

Weird. Today I was watching Bellator Season 2 today and I came across an interview with Bjorn Rebney where he basically said exactly what I've been saying. I put it on Youtube

 

http://youtu.be/1DLlCh41GjU

Baldy has no idea of what he is talking about. He just goes mumbo jumbo.

[Eveas]

I have one word for all you guys in here trashing the Spurs.

 

 

cbombs.

 

 

 

That is all.

[JLP]

Why would I compare to boxing? Boxing is a dead sport because they allowed corruption and greed to destroy the credibility of the sport. Is that what you want MMA to become? You jerk off to Tank Abbott and the original days of the UFC, but the original days of the UFC didn't have matchmakers. They had tournaments. The better fighter advanced regardless of his marketability or whether he fought with flair.

 

Bellator also follows a tournament format. It doesn't matter if you win by KO, submission, or decision. If you win, you advance. If you win three times, you get a title shot.

 

 

 

The Spurs are a boring team. Their style is slow and defensive. The NBA absolutely HATES having them in the Finals. The last time they were in the Finals, they scored an average of 6.2 in the Neilson ratings. Since then, the Lakers or the Heat have been in the Finals every year and the ratings have all been over 10.

 

Even when you break it down by players, Jordan's 3peat before his retirement in 96-98 scored 16.7, 16.8, and 18.7. The next year, with the Spurs in the Finals, it dropped to 11.3. However, despite these massive ratings differences, the NBA allows winners to advance and losers to drop out, even when it costs the league millions of dollars.

Totally off subject, but I just wanted to point out that the NBA does everything possible to keep boring or small market teams out of the Finals, with out being overt about it. I used to bet on the NBA playoffs by basically betting on ref assignments, I won pretty big money 3 out of the 4 years I did it. The NBA has a "hit crew" of referees that are assigned to high stakes games where they are trying to effect the game in favor of big market or superstar laden teams. NBA is shady as it comes.

The NBA posts the ref assignments before the game: http://www.nba.us/news/referee.html

Dick Bavetta, Danny Crawford, Ken Mauer are some of the names I kept an eye on. I didnt do it last year because my online book folded and stole all my money, but I would have made bank betting on the Heat and Celtics series for sure.

[toejam98]

Where the hell did i ever say he wasnt good enough for the UFC? Actually i plainly said he was good enough many times. Above, i said he was no longer great. Which he isnt. Like you said he isnt winning and he sure as hell isnt the #2 guy in the division anymore. So he isnt great. But lets be honest. There is lots of guys who are good enough to be in the UFC. But are not given an equal chance. Lets look at Jorge Santiago. The guy kills everyone outside the UFC(24-6). But gets his ass kicked in the UFC going 1-5. He has a suspect chin and everyone including the UFC know it. So who does he get to fight? Stann, Belcher, Leben. Then he gets a highly regarded prospect in Nelson and top ranked Maia. He will never even get a chance to stay in the UFC. No matter how good he is and how many of the top guys he does match up good with. He will never be allowed to win enough fights to even keep his job. I can many many other examples.

 

As much as we would love to just throw the best guys in and let them fight. It can never work like that. We would get a cluster fuck of everyone winning every other fight. Look at Dustin Hazelette. He beat some decent fights and went toe to toe with Koscheck and foguht the top guys. He would rape Leonard Garcia 6 ways from Sunday. But he got released and he retired from MMA at 25 years old and is/was working as an EMS.

 

Because like i said. IF you are the best or one of the best(possible champs) then you are valuable. If you are not then you are just one of 1000 guys who the UFC uses to entertain and test each other to find other champs or future champs. Dustin had a suspect chin and poor wrestling to ever be consistant and a champ. But he was a threat to spoil a lot of better fighters. Just like Santiago was. To run the UFC or any top promotion imo. You cant have to many of those second tier guys like a Santiago or Fitch. Imo they cut off the supply of fresh talent to the Champ. With these career contenders. You can either wait for them to age out and have a stagnant division for 5-6 years and lose promising prospects like Erick Silva. Or when they start to decline you can get them out of the way. Erick Silva might be a average fighter or he could be a beast. We dont know yet. But we do know his style and if he didnt catch Fitch early like Hendricks did(and i assume the UFC expected) then he got controled for a decision. The same thing a Fitch would do to many other great fighters. Simply due to styles. If he doesnt have much of a future why allow him to play spoiler to others who might? As i have shown "Because he is good enough doesnt cut it. Lots of people are good enough for the UFC. I can make anyone look good enough with some selective match making. But in the end it just doesnt make any sense. The UFC doesnt need a 6 figure gate keeper to the belt. It needs to contenders for the belt. Not someone prevent new fighters from getting to the belt. And personally i think one of the reasons the tough decision to let him go was made is Koscheck is in the same boat and has been for a while. Koscheck is better than Fitch in every way from selling fights to entertaining to the competion he has beat. The UFC has to many top ranked guys who have already fought GSP. From Fitch, Kos, Alves, Shields, etc that noone wants to see again. So someone has to go. I think more big names are on the way out too. I wouldnt be surprised if Jake Shields wasnt next. Maybe that win over has been Akiyama will save him. Wee will see.

 

Hey, was your quote behind my post? No I think not, I wasn't even responding to you. I was responding to the other guys saying that ufc shouldn't be about in ring style. You are the god given genius to the world, you should be able to comprehend that I'm actually agreeing with you with almost everything.

[toejam98]

Why would I compare to boxing? Boxing is a dead sport because they allowed corruption and greed to destroy the credibility of the sport. Is that what you want MMA to become? You jerk off to Tank Abbott and the original days of the UFC, but the original days of the UFC didn't have matchmakers. They had tournaments. The better fighter advanced regardless of his marketability or whether he fought with flair.

 

Bellator also follows a tournament format. It doesn't matter if you win by KO, submission, or decision. If you win, you advance. If you win three times, you get a title shot.

 

 

 

The Spurs are a boring team. Their style is slow and defensive. The NBA absolutely HATES having them in the Finals. The last time they were in the Finals, they scored an average of 6.2 in the Neilson ratings. Since then, the Lakers or the Heat have been in the Finals every year and the ratings have all been over 10.

 

Even when you break it down by players, Jordan's 3peat before his retirement in 96-98 scored 16.7, 16.8, and 18.7. The next year, with the Spurs in the Finals, it dropped to 11.3. However, despite these massive ratings differences, the NBA allows winners to advance and losers to drop out, even when it costs the league millions of dollars.

 

Your making the wrong comparison though, your comparing a team to a fighter, compare the players to the fighters. Whenever Tim Duncans contract is up, (if he doesnt retire) he's going to get paid significantly less than he's making now if he wants to stay in the NBA. His value isn't as high to his team anymore. Just like Fitches value isn't as high to the UFC anymore. If Tim Duncan wants to go over seas, he can make a lot more than he would get paid in the NBA anymore. Difference is Tim Duncan wont do that because hes already got enough moeny and he wants his legacy to be in the NBA.. However for a fighter, who doesn't get paid as much, they will take that oppurtunity to go elsewhere and get paid more rather then get a restructured contract to make prelim cash.

[Guest]

Nexus

 

There was always match making in the old UFC. Just because you were clueless to it doesnt change it. Why do you think it was considered a infomercial for Gracie BJJ? Because every spot in the tourney was hand picked. Also they only did tournaments until like UFC 8 or so. Do you know why? Because it was harder to protect their stars. Once the attraction went for a tourney to a specific fighter. They had to make sure that fighter was around for a while. It was around this time they brought in their match maker, John Perretti.

 

There is something to be said for just throwing fights out there without any plan and letting chips fall where they may. But it doesn't work and Bellator is finding that out the hard way. Styles makes fights. So wether a guy wins because he was given a good match up or he got a good match up by luck of the draw. What is the difference? We still don't see the better man win. That's if you believe a tournament is random. Bellator is selling the idea of a tournament rather than selling it's fighters. What they are slowly seeing is very few people care about an idea of meaningless guys fighting in a tournament. They will need names to have any future and be able to sell PPVs one day. Although you still have some control in tournaments it is t as much and harder to control. So you end up with random results. Bellator recently lost Kingo Mo's hype before ever getting anything out of him. You can't be a success when the people who can bring ratings are getting beat in fights no one watches. If he loses it needs to be against other top fighters. Instead it was in a fight he had nothing to gain from. So his hype was wasted. So Bellator is stuck drawing lower rating than some reruns of UFC Unleashed. No fighter anyone cares to see will last long without proper match making. Recently Bellator decided not to force everyone to win a tournament to get a title shot. Alverez wanted a rematch and it was against the rules. They both knew they would lose this big hype fight forcing him back into a random tournament. This was the first step I. Them admit their success is dependabt on controlin the match ups. The reality of fighting is no one is better than everyone. So even the best will lose regularly. That's why many Bellator champs drop like flies. Their match maker sucks when he does make the fights and that's why Travis Wuiff come in in a non title fight and beat their champ. You can't set fights up like that and still have stars. It seems you forget what the crowds were like when it was just fighting. Very few people watched. To be a sport that has more than a few thousand fans. You need stars. You can't have them if they lose every other fight.

[Guest]

Bellator's problem is not the format, it is the fact that they are a minor league. If the UFC ran tournaments like that, they would be very successful. The problem with matchmaking is that it is very short sighted. You book the fights that make the most money now instead of remaining objective and building the credibility of the sport.

 

The reason that UFC is doing what they are doing now is because there is no real threat to their dominance. Back when EliteXC riding the Kimbo hype train and Affliction was throwing Fedor against over the hill former champs to sell big, the UFC turned down the quick and easy money, knowing that remaining credible in the eyes of fans would pay off in the long run.

 

However, ever since they bought Strikeforce and there is no real challenger breathing down their necks, UFC is able to throw out bullshit undeserved fights like GSP-Diaz, Aldo-Edgar, and Jones-Sonnen just to make money. They know full well that by the time another promotion establishes themselves, everyone will have forgotten that there was a stretch when every other title shot was going to a guy with a big name coming off of a loss instead of a guy who earned it.

 

If WSOF or Bellator manage to mount a serious challenge, UFC will fall back into playing the role of "credible" promotion, knowing full well that other promotions need to book the "money" fights to raise enough capital to sign UFC-level stars.

[Cadillac]

We were talking about this at work..seems like yesterday if you lost three in a row..you're out. Now it seems like as long as you come out and brawl, put on a show..you're guaranteed safe. If this is the case then watch out for Phil Baroni to be back in the UFC.

[Guest]

Bellator's problem is not the format, it is the fact that they are a minor league. If the UFC ran tournaments like that, they would be very successful. The problem with matchmaking is that it is very short sighted. You book the fights that make the most money now instead of remaining objective and building the credibility of the sport.

 

The reason that UFC is doing what they are doing now is because there is no real threat to their dominance. Back when EliteXC riding the Kimbo hype train and Affliction was throwing Fedor against over the hill former champs to sell big, the UFC turned down the quick and easy money, knowing that remaining credible in the eyes of fans would pay off in the long run.

 

However, ever since they bought Strikeforce and there is no real challenger breathing down their necks, UFC is able to throw out bullshit undeserved fights like GSP-Diaz, Aldo-Edgar, and Jones-Sonnen just to make money. They know full well that by the time another promotion establishes themselves, everyone will have forgotten that there was a stretch when every other title shot was going to a guy with a big name coming off of a loss instead of a guy who earned it.

 

If WSOF or Bellator manage to mount a serious challenge, UFC will fall back into playing the role of "credible" promotion, knowing full well that other promotions need to book the "money" fights to raise enough capital to sign UFC-level stars.

 

 

A tournament in the UFC would kill it in the long term. It would be huge at first and this inside 5 years they dont have anything but everyone with a pile of losses and nothing left but rematches. Pride completely ran out of fights. The early UFC abandomed them. You would have to be a moron to think it is smart to do a tournament when you have dozens of guys who can sell 300-500K PPVs. If there was tournaments. And GSP won. Hendricks, Diaz, Ellanburger, Condit, Kampman, etc would all already be derailed. Instead they can all be b uolt back up. Bellator runs tournaments for one reason and one reason only. Its the same reason other local promotions run them. They are great when you dont have fighters with name value. Fighters hate them and you lose the ability to make stars or build credible contenders.

 

Them being minor league doesnt have anything to do with it. They have money and they have had fighters who if handled right could have been a top ranked fighter and a huge draw. King Mo was a top prospect. All they had to do was give him a few easy fights to built him set up by a good match maker. Instead he was wasted before he contributed anything to a guy who cant do anything with it. Likey lthat guy will lose in the next round. Because fights are random. They will never have a GSP or Silva. when you get someone who has the it factor to sell. Like a Chael or Jones. You dont have to make them champ. But you have to make them credible to have the ability to sell fights. Do you think Jon Jones just happen to blow through everyone as a rookie? He was protected at first. They knew he was special and they protected him until he got to a contender level. The UFC knew he was younger and faster and more athletic so they matched him verses slow flat footed guys mostly slow wrestlers so he couldnt get "Caught" or people with no power. Gusmao, Hamill, Obrien, Vladdy, etc. It wasnt until his 8th or 10th fight he faced anyone who was a threat athletically when he foguht Rua and Machida. They didnt just throw him random people. It would be a huge injustice if he ran into a few bad match ups that stamped him out before he ever got started and built the confidence we see in him today.

[toejam98]

A tournament in the UFC would kill it in the long term. It would be huge at first and this inside 5 years they dont have anything but everyone with a pile of losses and nothing left but rematches. Pride completely ran out of fights. The early UFC abandomed them. You would have to be a moron to think it is smart to do a tournament when you have dozens of guys who can sell 300-500K PPVs. If there was tournaments. And GSP won. Hendricks, Diaz, Ellanburger, Condit, Kampman, etc would all already be derailed. Instead they can all be b uolt back up. Bellator runs tournaments for one reason and one reason only. Its the same reason other local promotions run them. They are great when you dont have fighters with name value. Fighters hate them and you lose the ability to make stars or build credible contenders.

 

Them being minor league doesnt have anything to do with it. They have money and they have had fighters who if handled right could have been a top ranked fighter and a huge draw. King Mo was a top prospect. All they had to do was give him a few easy fights to built him set up by a good match maker. Instead he was wasted before he contributed anything to a guy who cant do anything with it. Likey lthat guy will lose in the next round. Because fights are random. They will never have a GSP or Silva. when you get someone who has the it factor to sell. Like a Chael or Jones. You dont have to make them champ. But you have to make them credible to have the ability to sell fights. Do you think Jon Jones just happen to blow through everyone as a rookie? He was protected at first. They knew he was special and they protected him until he got to a contender level. The UFC knew he was younger and faster and more athletic so they matched him verses slow flat footed guys mostly slow wrestlers so he couldnt get "Caught" or people with no power. Gusmao, Hamill, Obrien, Vladdy, etc. It wasnt until his 8th or 10th fight he faced anyone who was a threat athletically when he foguht Rua and Machida. They didnt just throw him random people. It would be a huge injustice if he ran into a few bad match ups that stamped him out before he ever got started and built the confidence we see in him today.

 

The Bellator Tournaments only determine the #1 Contendor not the champion ....

 

A guy has to win 3 fights to win the tournament.....

 

Bellator Champions fight about as often as the UFC champions........

 

So why if they ran a tournament you could never see a GSP or A Silva?

 

The tournaments are great and give guys the oppurtunity to go out and get a title shot when they may be one of those guys who go overlooked. You know, one of those guys who put together like 6, 7 fight win streaks in the UFC and never get a shot at the title and then lose a fight and end up at the bottem. You win that many fights in bellator your the champ and have just blown your name up.

[Guest]

We were talking about this at work..seems like yesterday if you lost three in a row..you're out. Now it seems like as long as you come out and brawl, put on a show..you're guaranteed safe. If this is the case then watch out for Phil Baroni to be back in the UFC.

 

 

Well you have to look at the land scape. 3 losses used to get you cut. But that was before the UFC's larger tv presence that it has today. It is running events all over the world and have dozens of free shows. It needs fighters to fills those positions. It cant keep releasing name guys and replacing them with unknown guys from minors when it needs them and needs them to bring in fans. I like Baroni even though he is past his prime. He is still better business putting him on a card than a no name guy from Wild Bills fight night. Now you cant keep old names forever and every time. But you can give them a few more fights than you would have before. While at the same time bringing in new guys looking for the best fighters of the future. The reason we see cuts now is they bought SF and have to many fighters now. Just like they did after they bought Pride and WFA. They have to cut the fat. So now they will have to get strict until the numbers come down and they get the numbers of fighters they can handle.

 

Remember Gerald Harris was the Jon Fitch of the last round of cuts. He was 3-1 in the UFC with 3 KO's. He lost a boring fight to future Bellator champ Flacao and was released with a 17-3 record. The MMA community went bat shit crazy. But it wasnt the end of the world. Harris is 4-2 since in smaller shows. The UFC isnt in the business of releasing great fighters to go to the compeition. In 12 months people wont give a shit about Fitch. He will run into a quick young guy with power in a small show and get his ass kicked and people will stop caring about him.

[Guest]

maiquel falcao isnt a bellator champ...

[Guest]

The Bellator Tournaments only determine the #1 Contendor not the champion ....

 

A guy has to win 3 fights to win the tournament.....

 

Bellator Champions fight about as often as the UFC champions........

 

So why if they ran a tournament you could never see a GSP or A Silva?

 

The tournaments are great and give guys the oppurtunity to go out and get a title shot when they may be one of those guys who go overlooked. You know, one of those guys who put together like 6, 7 fight win streaks in the UFC and never get a shot at the title and then lose a fight and end up at the bottem. You win that many fights in bellator your the champ and have just blown your name up.

 

Because the guy they face is often random. To be the champ you have to be the best or should be. That doesnt mean you cant be beaten by someone. But Bellators gives their title shots based on who is the best of 8 guys they put in a tournament. Not nearly the same thing. The winner of that small tournament doesnt have to be the second best guy in the world or the promotion. He just has to win a crap shoot. I hope you dont think no one in the world canbeat Silva or GSP. If you do buy into that we are wasting out time. Everyone has someone who has their number.

 

Wiuff got a fight vs their champ and beat him. But he lost in the finals of the tournament. So he never got a shot at the champ he knew he could beat. Their champ won a tournament. But it didnt mean anything. He still got waxed by a journeyman. When your match making is chaos so are your results.

 

Look at the revolving door they ahve with their belts. These guys are not champs because they are anything special. They got hot and lucky and then ran into someone else who was hot and lucky. There is no way to reward the fighters who match up better verses more styles. The guys in the UFC are the best because they proven in verses all styles and all fighters. Not just because they might have avoided a wrestler or BJJ guy for 3-4 fights.

 

 

Bellator has had 15 Champions in its History. Only Ben Askren has successfully defended his title more than 1 once.

 

BTW, their champs are not fighting as often as UFC champs. They are waiting forever for these tournaments to end and are doing meaningless non title fights or sitting on the shelf forever. UFC champs are fighting top guys for the belt 1-3 times per year. Zack Makovski had his belt almost 2 years and never defended it, Soto and Warren never defended in 454 and 554 days, Lyman Good no defense in 485 days, Christian M'Pumbu 650 days.

 

These guys had 1 defense. Konrad 700 days, Lombard 1040 days, Alvarez 883 days, Chandler 472 days, Curran 361 days.

 

That is a shit system anyway you slice it. The UFC has a champ here and there who will fight 1 defense per year because they get hurt or something. But not every single champ they have. Bellator has guys who dont defend for over a year and sometimes 2 years. Jon Jones has 4 defense in 700 days and coming up on his 5th. Bendo is about to have his 3rd in 400 days. Aldo has 4 in 837 days.

 

Even these huge names are much more active than these no names in Bellator. So how can these guys ever become a big name like a Jones or Aldo defending every 2 years? especially when they dont have the luxuary of being big name before they became champ?

 

Its a system that promote a gimmick rather than the fighters. Bellator thinks if it can get people to buy into a tournament that it dont be subject to high priced fighters and their demands because people will tune in to see anyone fight in this format. But as fighters become known. They demand out of the system. Alvarez didnt want to fight in a tournament anymore and threatened to leave because of it.