In the interest of...

[Guest]

Nietzsche is easily one of the most misunderstood philosophers ever. I blame his whore sister.

[Guest]

I don't really see how Nietzsche reinforces Locke?

 

Locke was about equality of man and their natural state of freedom whereas Nietzsche was saying this natural state of complacency and mediocrity was something to strive against. Nietzsche was never about good/evil being about YOUR perspective but that of the society you exist in at large.

 

OK, you are going to need to subjet Nietzchean philosophy to itself. Let's say murder was legal and commonly accepted in certain circumstances in one particular society. As a result, many people are murdered. Since it is accepted by society, is it then therefore not evil?

[Guest]

OK, you are going to need to subjet Nietzchean philosophy to itself. Let's say murder was legal and commonly accepted in certain circumstances in one particular society. As a result, many people are murdered. Since it is accepted by society, is it then therefore not evil?

 

This doesn't mean that all ideas are equal, though! Nietzsche himself lashed out against Christianity (in particular) because he found the subjugation and supression of people inherent in that and the other Abrahamic, monotheistic religions to be damaging and restricting to the way a person lives his or her life.

 

This would also apply to murder being commonly accepted.

[Guest]

OK, you are going to need to subjet Nietzchean philosophy to itself. Let's say murder was legal and commonly accepted in certain circumstances in one particular society. As a result, many people are murdered. Since it is accepted by society, is it then therefore not evil?

 

"It is improbable that you are not mistaken; but why insist on the truth?"

 

The death penalty in a region where it is supported by its people, a war between peoples who do not know each other and follow the orders they're given (for example the current Iraq conflict) which is supported by its people, or in both cases at the least it is not opposed in any true measure which intends to bring around change. Are these not murders?

[Erik]

could only be held by people with higher education

 

Your borderline obsession with higher education is kind of sad.

[Guest]

To be fair, so is the job market/HR department's.

[Erik]

To be fair, so is the job market/HR department's.

 

If nothing else a degree shows someone was able to stick at something for a few years, fairly important for entry level positions tbh.

[Guest]

Well said. Any higher-ed haters can rage at how university teaches no one nothing about anything yet... you don't see "unqualified" on the advertisements for jobs. You see a list of their expected qualification.

[Guest]

Well said. Any higher-ed haters can rage at how university teaches no one nothing about anything yet... you don't see "unqualified" on the advertisements for jobs. You see a list of their expected qualification.

I don't hate higher education, you are using a Red Herring. I hate quasi-fascistic intellectualism, and, believe it or not, you can still get a job fairly easily even America's economy (it is certainly much easier than in France or Spain). I have never set foot in a philosophy class and I am capable of having deep philosophical conversations with philosophy majors. Now, if I have the same understanding and knowledge of philosophy as someone who has paid THOUSANDS of dollars in philosophy for 4 years, how is that not any kind of a rip-off.

 

I am in college working towards an engineering major, I can guarantee you I wouldn't want to live in a house or drive over a bridge that wasn't built by someone with rigorous higher education.

[Mystery]

I don't hate higher education, you are using a Red Herring. I hate quasi-fascistic intellectualism, and, believe it or not, you can still get a job fairly easily even America's economy (it is certainly much easier than in France or Spain). I have never set foot in a philosophy class and I am capable of having deep philosophical conversations with philosophy majors. Now, if I have the same understanding and knowledge of philosophy as someone who has paid THOUSANDS of dollars in philosophy for 4 years, how is that not any kind of a rip-off.

 

I am in college working towards an engineering major, I can guarantee you I wouldn't want to live in a house or drive over a bridge that wasn't built by someone with rigorous higher education.

 

As for living in a house, many of the best carpenters have never had any 'higher education' at all

[Guest]

As for living in a house, many of the best carpenters have never had any 'higher education' at all

 

Well, there you have it.

[Guest]

And yet, we're not talking about carpentry, we've been talking about economics and philosophy. How many neuro-surgeons are high-school drop outs?

 

Carpenters, being involved in a highly practical field, have apprenticeships which tend to run 3-4 years. Economists, being involved in a highly theoretical field, have tertiary educations which tend to run 3-4 years. Both then continue to build real world experience and expertise through further application of their chosen vocation.

 

I am not sure I have heard anything that sounds more like 'quasi-fascistic intellectualism' than a person who uses the term 'quasi-fascistic intellectualism'. What does this even mean?

 

Quasi: Having some semblance to

Fascistic: Relating to an authoritarian and right-wing system of government

Intellectualism: The theory that knowledge derives from rationality at the expense of emotion

 

So... you hate something that resembles authoritarian and right-wing government (or beliefs/viewpoints) that is derived from pure reason?

 

If you're trying to say "Higher education doesn't make someone a genius or more capable than another", in terms of "the clothes don't make the man", then I think that's something we can all get behind. If you're trying to say "higher education is worthless" then that would just be stupid. Philosophy (sorry philosophy majors!) has no practical value in society. It is a hobby. Anyone spending a fortune on this hobby is a bit silly in my opinion, but its their choice. Anyone spending a fortune on this hobby and then expecting that, a) they are going to get a job (that isn't as a philosophy lecturer, thus continuing the cycle of silly) out of it, or that they're superior intellects to anyone else, are obviously morons.

 

As to your getting a job in general easily. Absolutely, I could get a job flipping burgers for minimum wage with no health insurance easy as hell. But why would I? A university degree, or apprenticeship, shows potential employers you have the ability to stick to something and see it successfully through to the end by virtue of having devoted 3-4+ years of your life to it. The design of tertiary syllabus also aims to ensure general literacy skills and communication skills, written and verbal as well as help to develop social and professional networks.

 

Your engineering example is a good one, just like neuro-science, the reality there is you don't NEED higher education, but you do need access to a large variety of learning resources and experts with long experience who can share their knowledge, ensure you understand the core aspects, give you practice tasks, etc, and in terms of viability based on economy of scale, the ancient Greek 'mentor' system just doesn't cut it, that's why we have universities and colleges which centralise it all and share overhead and property, plant and equipment.

[Guest]

And yet, we're not talking about carpentry, we've been talking about economics and philosophy. How many neuro-surgeons are high-school drop outs?

 

Carpenters, being involved in a highly practical field, have apprenticeships which tend to run 3-4 years. Economists, being involved in a highly theoretical field, have tertiary educations which tend to run 3-4 years. Both then continue to build real world experience and expertise through further application of their chosen vocation.

 

I am not sure I have heard anything that sounds more like 'quasi-fascistic intellectualism' than a person who uses the term 'quasi-fascistic intellectualism'. What does this even mean?

 

Quasi: Having some semblance to

Fascistic: Relating to an authoritarian and right-wing system of government

Intellectualism: The theory that knowledge derives from rationality at the expense of emotion

 

So... you hate something that resembles authoritarian and right-wing government (or beliefs/viewpoints) that is derived from pure reason?

 

If you're trying to say "Higher education doesn't make someone a genius or more capable than another", in terms of "the clothes don't make the man", then I think that's something we can all get behind. If you're trying to say "higher education is worthless" then that would just be stupid. Philosophy (sorry philosophy majors!) has no practical value in society. It is a hobby. Anyone spending a fortune on this hobby is a bit silly in my opinion, but its their choice. Anyone spending a fortune on this hobby and then expecting that, a) they are going to get a job (that isn't as a philosophy lecturer, thus continuing the cycle of silly) out of it, or that they're superior intellects to anyone else, are obviously morons.

 

As to your getting a job in general easily. Absolutely, I could get a job flipping burgers for minimum wage with no health insurance easy as hell. But why would I? A university degree, or apprenticeship, shows potential employers you have the ability to stick to something and see it successfully through to the end by virtue of having devoted 3-4+ years of your life to it. The design of tertiary syllabus also aims to ensure general literacy skills and communication skills, written and verbal as well as help to develop social and professional networks.

 

Your engineering example is a good one, just like neuro-science, the reality there is you don't NEED higher education, but you do need access to a large variety of learning resources and experts with long experience who can share their knowledge, ensure you understand the core aspects, give you practice tasks, etc, and in terms of viability based on economy of scale, the ancient Greek 'mentor' system just doesn't cut it, that's why we have universities and colleges which centralise it all and share overhead and property, plant and equipment.

 

Calm down and slow down. You're again putting words in my mouth. I am in college now. I have nothing against "higher education." I have a problem with the way the elites are saying people HAVE to go to college.

I will admit quasi was the wrong word. But the intelligentsia is part of a fascist class/ladder system. America is the most fascist country in the modern world. It has nothing to do with right-wing ideology. It is simply authoritarianism combined with nationalism.

[Guest]

Communism is also authoritarianism combined with nationalism, yet it is not fascism. They are different things, which is why we have different words to describe them.

 

Fascism is inextricably linked to the extreme right. Communism to the extreme left.

 

The USA has a very strong legal system and social freedoms along with free press and the right to vote. It may be that most of the press is owned/run by various interest groups of wealthy people. It may be that the mainstream political candidates are these same people. This doesn't change that the country is run as a democracy at a level that involves far more citizen involvement than most other developed democracies across the world.

 

As far as elites saying what people have to do, this is an inherent flaw in capitalism in that the people with the capital are the ones who are doing the job hiring and as such they decide who to hire and the requisite skills, knowledge, qualifications, clothes, school tie and secret handshakes that are needed.