man5616 Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 it has been stated before that gym fees r 600 max...we have been stuck on 500 for to long in my view...i know it was in place to try and make gyms specialize..but all its done is make private spar gyms all the rage, and why not? when it makes it a safe bet and quality training...ppl that r trying to create coached gyms seem to draw the short straw in terms of company growth and wealth...u can start a org or clothing company and be a high rollar within a month....the fees at the moment mean it makes it very hard to save for your next signing fee...u say things like 'have more members'..but do u really think top guys are gonna train with a maxed out gym when they can get elite sparring at a private gym....c'mon mike give gym owners a little more wriggle room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santa Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Being a gym owner myself, i hope the sparring training gets revised. Then we can keep the 500 dollar max fees, which is a very good idea.i think the 500 dollar helps balancing out things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man5616 Posted October 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 haha because 600 is so extreme......why in a mma game is training so undervalued..i mean if your playing a fighting game, u expect training to be your biggest expense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveme8 Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 I never understood Mike's argument for why increasing gym fees past $500 would make every gym the same--I understood the complete other side of that argument, that eventually gym fees would get huge and only a few fighters (and I'm talking less than 50 here) would be able to be in really, really top line gyms. Each gym would find its own right price as it progresses up the inverse curve between gym fees and the number of fighters who could afford to train there. Cons, it would widen the gap between the haves and have-nots. Everyone whose fighter had $50k or above would be able to set them up with their own gym with fees of $5000 to pay for a double elite coach. Pros, it would allow fighters to find their own niches and top-line gyms wouldn't be so crowded or have to deliberately set capacities to keep fighters interested, plus it would curtail the inflation going on in the Tycoon economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfire200 Posted October 4, 2009 Report Share Posted October 4, 2009 Actually i would not mind gym fees being raised by $100 as it would help the other gyms that are not funded by a organization to be able to maintain 12 coaches at a decent rate of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Actually i would not mind gym fees being raised by $100 as it would help the other gyms that are not funded by a organization to be able to maintain 12 coaches at a decent rate of people. The whole point of the $500 limit is so that gyms can't afford 12 elites. With a $500 limit a top gym can have... let's say 12 "strong" coaches, 5 "elite" coaches, or maybe 2-3 double elites. So either a general purpose gym, a specialized gym or a very specialized gym. Sure there are some gyms with alternative funding, but the AVERAGE top gym is not supposed to pull that off. I don't know if $500 is the optimal limit (it was probably chosen arbitrarily), but if your argument for raising it to $600 is to be able to afford 12 elites then I say: no, do not raise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfire200 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Actually already with the $500 cap and a membership of 110 members you can support the gym of 12 top notch coaches, just takes time to afford to bring in those coaches. It would however give some gyms the opportunity to make 75-90 member, 12 coach gyms without needing to own an org also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 So what you're saying is that fees should be raised so that given time every gym should eventually be able to provide 12 elite/double elite coaches and low membership. Even though this is exactly what the fee cap is meant to prevent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveme8 Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 So what you're saying is that fees should be raised so that given time every gym should eventually be able to provide 12 elite/double elite coaches and low membership. Even though this is exactly what the fee cap is meant to prevent. I think it would eventually provide more variety than what we've got now. I think it's much more common for gyms nowadays to be stacked with every kind of coach (elite and double elite) and have a hundred-some members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think it would eventually provide more variety than what we've got now. I think it's much more common for gyms nowadays to be stacked with every kind of coach (elite and double elite) and have a hundred-some members. More variety? How would lowering the number of members needed to sustain an all elite gym increase variety? It would just let you (and everyone else) make full elite gyms with lower class sizes. You want variety, then force top-tier gyms into deciding whether to have 12 pretty-good coaches or 8 elite coaches. Or to have 12 elites but class sizes so large that it is pointless to use the elite coaches. Force gyms into deciding whether to specialize in one aspect of MMA (and which aspect) or to be a general purpose gym. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man5616 Posted October 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 its always about orgs funding...fighters r the rich ones that will support gyms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 what better way to spend it than on better training Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveme8 Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 More variety? How would lowering the number of members needed to sustain an all elite gym increase variety? It would just let you (and everyone else) make full elite gyms with lower class sizes. Well, I don't think that's necessarily a problem. I'm a believer in the free market, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonkey Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I think the cap is fine. I got probably the most elite gym in St Pete's up and running in a week, and at full capacity in about 3 weeks. We might implement changes later, but we don't have to. And I agree that the cap is good for providing different ways of making excellent gyms, instead of only 1 way. The fact that sparring gyms found such a way is a good thing. Remember that you're saying that top fighters can afford to pay more for sparring. And a sparring gym can never be as good as the same gym with low membership and good coaches, which will draw top fighters to gyms with coaches, making even the sparring better. If it's even an issue now, and I don't really think it is, sparring gyms is a self-correcting issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 My only gripe is that as a gym owner Ill never have the chance to have the best gym in the world because I don't have an org to fund my gym. Sparring gyms are not anywhere close to the advantage a fighter gets by being a member of a gym that gives you one on one or at the most three fighters per session with their elite coaches. So Im in favor of whatever allows me to compete on the same playing field as an org funded gym. With all due respect take a look at Damage in Tokyo. http://www.mmatycoon.com/gympublic.php?gmid=55. Those are the fighters you should be afraid of not some fighter in a sparring gym with no individual skills. Again nothing against Damage. Hes not doing anything outside the rules but without an org. he couldn't have that small a cap. I just think its funny how the sparring gyms are causing everyone to get their panties in wad and when the real advantage is a low cap gym like this. Will raising the gym fees put everyone on more equal footing? I think it could. So as a gym owner Im all for the raise to $600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 The whole point of the $500 limit is so that gyms can't afford 12 elites.Oh really? http://www.mmatycoon.com/gympublic.php?gmid=220 http://www.mmatycoon.com/gympublic.php?gmid=119 http://www.mmatycoon.com/gympublic.php?gmid=63 http://www.mmatycoon.com/gympublic.php?gmid=373 And none of them charge 500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveme8 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 That third one has nine coaches, not twelve. It's beside the point, though. Plenty of gyms not even close to $500 could have 12 elites. Heck, a $500 could have twelve double elites without being funded by another company if its cap were high enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jls.monster Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Invictus, the thing with those gyms that seperate them from the 500 dollar elite gyms, is the truely elite gyms limit at 60-75 ppl thus small classes, so another 50 dollars is nothing for a smaller class size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yeah I could charge $10 and have 10,000 members and afford 12 elites too. Doesn't mean it provides good training. With the upcoming changes to training, an increased fee will be even less needed. Fighters will need to do sparring, some physical workouts and some skills training in order to keep their training efficiency high and not have a morale drop. So on average you'll see fewer people using coaches which means a 110 person 12-elite gym will be able to provide training similar in quality to what a 50 person 12-elite gym does right now. Might even need to lower the gym fee cap if that happens ;o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iloveme8 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 With the upcoming changes to training, an increased fee will be even less needed. Fighters will need to do sparring, some physical workouts and some skills training in order to keep their training efficiency high and not have a morale drop. So on average you'll see fewer people using coaches What makes you say that? I find surprisingly low training percentages (total sessions filled/(total fighters * 12)) in most gyms. It's not like training percentages are topping 80% in most gyms. I think there's just as much sparring in a lot of gyms as training. I think more people will be forced out of sparring into training, requiring a cap fee increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzunami Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I never understood Mike's argument for why increasing gym fees past $500 would make every gym the same--I understood the complete other side of that argument, that eventually gym fees would get huge and only a few fighters (and I'm talking less than 50 here) would be able to be in really, really top line gyms. Each gym would find its own right price as it progresses up the inverse curve between gym fees and the number of fighters who could afford to train there. Cons, it would widen the gap between the haves and have-nots. Everyone whose fighter had $50k or above would be able to set them up with their own gym with fees of $5000 to pay for a double elite coach. Pros, it would allow fighters to find their own niches and top-line gyms wouldn't be so crowded or have to deliberately set capacities to keep fighters interested, plus it would curtail the inflation going on in the Tycoon economy. I like this argument. I would also like to see the gym fee cap increased, though to something more than $600/week. This would act as a very effective money sink and would prevent all the money build-up that's causing such high rates of inflation. In fact, I can see all gyms charging $500/week soon as orgs continue to develop and progress, and the net amount of hype/pop within MMA tycoon increases. This leads to more money entering the economy, but just as much going out, and this is the biggest problem at the moment with the economy. I'm all for limitless gym fees as long as proper measures are in place to prevent abuse. This will allow the economy to adjust itself to the fluctuations in the rate that money is being supplied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 As a fairly new gym owner im opposed to the raise , in fact i would go the other way and set the cap to $300 ???? and yes it is possible to have 12 elite coaches it just takes a long time to build up a good gym with the new sparing changes about to take effect i have acted sooner rather than later and come up with a biusness plan that will work provided its given time the way i have gone is 160 members $130 a week now im not going to lay it on a plate for you here but i can add an elite coach every two weeks considering the signing fees , and extra wages its totaly possible , the problem is with people , they are afraid to sit down with a pen and paper and do a bit of work you dont need $600 gym fees you just need to be a good manager this isnt a pop at anyone so please dont take offence i was just stating a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzunami Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 As a fairly new gym owner im opposed to the raise , in fact i would go the other way and set the cap to $300 ???? and yes it is possible to have 12 elite coaches it just takes a long time to build up a good gym with the new sparing changes about to take effect i have acted sooner rather than later and come up with a biusness plan that will work provided its given time the way i have gone is 160 members $130 a week now im not going to lay it on a plate for you here but i can add an elite coach every two weeks considering the signing fees , and extra wages its totaly possible , the problem is with people , they are afraid to sit down with a pen and paper and do a bit of work you dont need $600 gym fees you just need to be a good manager this isnt a pop at anyone so please dont take offence i was just stating a fact Your forgetting that quality of training goes down with more people training in each session. The fact is, at equilibrium state, your gym will still have lots and lots of people in it. The purpose of higher gym fees isn't to obtain 12 elite coaches (this is easy to do). The purpose of higher gym fees is so that gym owners can cap the max amount of fighters at 40-ish so that the quality of training will increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Your forgetting that quality of training goes down with more people training in each session. The fact is, at equilibrium state, your gym will still have lots and lots of people in it. The purpose of higher gym fees isn't to obtain 12 elite coaches (this is easy to do). The purpose of higher gym fees is so that gym owners can cap the max amount of fighters at 40-ish so that the quality of training will increase. i didnt realy forget about the equilibrium of gyms and i totaly understand your statement but what could happen is give the game 12 months and all gyms will move to the higher level of less fighters more coaches. so all gyms will be equal in the end , you still will have starter gyms for the newer fighters , but its totaly possible to have a fighter and after 3 months for that fighter to have more than 6 thousand in the bank , so more than lightly his owner will place him in one of the uber gyms , it just seems like a riddle that theres no answer to , unless of course one day the game will develop into a tier system where there are divisions div1 div2 div3 etc , when a fighter reaches say 10 wins he moves up a division , there by leaving his gym and org to move to a higher division , by doing this , the players , fighters , gyms , companies that have been in the game from the begining (who have the most money) will be in top division , thay then retire after a certain time , to start at the bottom again , by doing this the game is always being played with fellow players at the same level as each other dunno hummmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzunami Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 i didnt realy forget about the equilibrium of gyms and i totaly understand your statement but what could happen is give the game 12 months and all gyms will move to the higher level of less fighters more coaches. so all gyms will be equal in the end , you still will have starter gyms for the newer fighters , but its totaly possible to have a fighter and after 3 months for that fighter to have more than 6 thousand in the bank , so more than lightly his owner will place him in one of the uber gyms , it just seems like a riddle that theres no answer to , unless of course one day the game will develop into a tier system where there are divisions div1 div2 div3 etc , when a fighter reaches say 10 wins he moves up a division , there by leaving his gym and org to move to a higher division , by doing this , the players , fighters , gyms , companies that have been in the game from the begining (who have the most money) will be in top division , thay then retire after a certain time , to start at the bottom again , by doing this the game is always being played with fellow players at the same level as each other dunno hummmmm Lol. There are managers with over 1 million in their banks right now. There's probably over 30 managers (mostly org owners) who can afford gyms with 12 elite coaches and only 20 member limits right now. The problem I had with your suggestion is that with the fees capped at $300/week... There won't be any good gyms anymore... So what your suggesting is to eliminate "good" gyms until all gyms catch up? What I suggested before is to eliminate the monetary build-up and reduce inflation to create a more stable system, where managers with inefficient business plans would become "stuck" as lesser gyms serving the lower-tiered fighters. The managers with more efficient business plans would be able to turn larger profits and would turn their gyms into the "elite" ones. Right now, $300/week would not only increase the problem of inflation in MMA Tycoon, but it would also force good gyms to raise their limit on fighters and thereby, decrease quality of training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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