Monsieur.Camara Posted May 30, 2020 Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 I am going to answer Matty’s fair fight point. Comparing form, skills etc are good for making matchups, but I don’t think weight should come into it. If the fighters are legitimately in the same weight class then they can fight anyone in that division. Heavyweight has the broadest range of weights, but you can’t expect to only fight people within 10-20lbs of you. When I very first started, about 7 years ago, I remember I rejected a fight for my HW because he weighed 220lbs and was offered a 280lb guy, something like that. I thought it was unfair. The org owner said sure, whatever, and gave me someone else. But I was wrong (and not just in thinking my guy would be at a disadvantage!) Heavyweights should be willing and able to face any other HW. Otherwise you will be missing out on good matchups by having an arbitrary extra condition which is frankly unnecessary. This is a good point. I believe fo rthe HW division the best thing to do is build 265 with any fighter that cuts to 206 until 265. And anyone above that 265+ Of course this is easier said than done and after 10-20k IDs extremely difficult as the super heavies are just not that popular and often an org must merge the divisions into 1. I really wish Mike would fix the speed advantage, it should be more like in real life where fighters want to get to their fights as big as possible and not the opposite 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted May 30, 2020 Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 It might be an energy advantage. Bigger fighters spend more energy per move, and don't recover as much. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted May 30, 2020 Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 It might be an energy advantage. Bigger fighters spend more energy per move, and don't recover as much. I think that is definitely at least part of it. Then eventually when the bigger fighter tires the smaller fighter will starts being more and more active and landing easier and easier. I donys't think there is an easy fix based on how the engine is set up. It's always why heavier fights cut, KO, knockdown more... because they are spending much more energy per move on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Cut more weight:Handcaps Energy, Handcaps CHINIncreases KO powerMost of people rather have more chin than more KO Power. More chin AND energy? Crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Also, the obese midget build is bizarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin10 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 I am going to answer Matty’s fair fight point. Comparing form, skills etc are good for making matchups, but I don’t think weight should come into it. If the fighters are legitimately in the same weight class then they can fight anyone in that division. Heavyweight has the broadest range of weights, but you can’t expect to only fight people within 10-20lbs of you. When I very first started, about 7 years ago, I remember I rejected a fight for my HW because he weighed 220lbs and was offered a 280lb guy, something like that. I thought it was unfair. The org owner said sure, whatever, and gave me someone else. But I was wrong (and not just in thinking my guy would be at a disadvantage!) Heavyweights should be willing and able to face any other HW. Otherwise you will be missing out on good matchups by having an arbitrary extra condition which is frankly unnecessary. Yeah absolutely, you are 100% correct, we will be losing out on good matchups, but my mindset is a little bit like ryan, and i don't want the lighter guy to gain unfair advantages, later in the fight. Then again, this is only applied to the newbies, the guys who are going to be making a debut in this org, so in a way, we are not really loosing out on too many good matchups, cause after newcomers have fough 1-2 times here, then the matches get tougher and everyone can fight everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Can't say that I'm not guilty of pushing the sliders & fight engine to it's knees with the speed hack myself however as all experienced managers know well one can easily counter that strategy with counter KO with a KO Power hidden build anyway. Here is an example of my 350+ 170 fighter Slash Slingin Slasher (11-1) losing by counter KO with the obese midget build. No build is perfect. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=991295 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just like how in the clinch the shorter fighter with muay thai can out % the opponent 60% of the time however the opposing taller fighter can outstrike 60% of the time in the stand up.because of the reach advantage. Remember whenever Mike nerfs something it will just reset the meta. We have to be careful of what we ask for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 I mean HW is HW, 206-265 is not much of an a weight advantage either way. It's all pretty high energy comsumption and knock out power territory. Plenty of my lighter HWs have gotten KTFO over the years. Now 155 vs 200+ and etc the energy advtange becomes VERY apparent as what happened with Alzheimer winning that Open Weight tournament and me once again proving it by winning that KT open weight grand prix with Renato Gracie. But as long as they are above 206 pounds (or at least if you wanna be stricter, make the rule they can't cut to 205) then you should be fine with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin10 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Yeah man, i know about the sliders, but since the Grumpy talked about "fair fights", that's what came to my mind. But now after talking everyone's suggestion, i think in Heavyweight division, everyone should fight everyone, doesn't matter if it is that guys debut or not. And therefore i will be taking that into account from here on Barney, Ryan, Hei long king, thanks guys for the suggestions and help as always. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin10 Posted May 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 I mean HW is HW, 206-265 is not much of an a weight advantage either way. It's all pretty high energy comsumption and knock out power territory. Plenty of my lighter HWs have gotten KTFO over the years. Now 155 vs 200+ and etc the energy advtange becomes VERY apparent as what happened with Alzheimer winning that Open Weight tournament and me once again proving it by winning that KT open weight grand prix with Renato Gracie. But as long as they are above 206 pounds (or at least if you wanna be stricter, make the rule they can't cut to 205) then you should be fine with it. Yeah, i will be making the changes asap bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Its not like you dont set your weight at fighter creation and you cant change weights with supps.If you screw up with shit fighter build thats on you tho. Dont do 220cm lightweights, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 I, for example, work better with KO power but shit chin than shit power with Granite Chin.So i tend to cut a little weight rather than "speed hack". In the end is all about knowing how to you use your particular set of sliders, the Mythical land of the slider fu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damndaniel Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Cut more weight: Handcaps Energy, Handcaps CHIN Increases KO power Most of people rather have more chin than more KO Power. More chin AND energy? Crazy. You have made me want to move my project fighter up in weight lol, he cuts 14 lbs to make 145 right now. Does this weight stuff matter AS much at the lower weight classes? or is this more for HW and LHW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 O for sure it matters at every weight class. It is just more magnified at heavyweight because of the broader weight diference. Miss a takedown or a clinch as a grappler at heavyweight you are going to sleep however miss a punch or kick at heavyweight vs a small heavyweight you are getting takedown subbed or gnped 100%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 O for sure it matters at every weight class. It is just more magnified at heavyweight because of the broader weight diference. Miss a takedown or a clinch as a grappler at heavyweight you are going to sleep however miss a punch or kick at heavyweight vs a small heavyweight you are getting takedown subbed or gnped 100%. Hence, the obese midget build with gnp. That just should not happen 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damndaniel Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Hence, the obese midget build with gnp. That just should not happen I have a few of those lmao. I make them about 5'7" to 5'9" and 265-275. Here was one who won a QFC tourney. Fatty McFatass was his name lmao. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=363232 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Hence, the obese midget build with gnp. That just should not happen What is your solution then? if it just gets patched then we will see more stand up only counter KO tall builds will be the new meta that everyone will want to be patched.There is a reason why Mike nerfed the 7 footers in the fight engine of the pass. This is MMA Tycoon not Boxing Tycoon. If I have to dodge bombs for 3-5 rounds straight I think it is only fair that I have a chance through speed or energy to survive the storm. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 What is your solution then? if it just gets patched then we will see more stand up only counter KO tall builds will be the new meta that everyone will want to be patched.There is a reason why Mike nerfed the 7 footers a fight engine of the pass. This is MMA Tycoon not Boxing Tycoon. If I have to dodge bombs for 3-5 rounds straight I think it is only fair that I have a chance through speed or energy to survive the storm. I actually am writing a suggestion thread about it. Thanks for asking and I hope I see you there. Its both an answer to this issue and the "lack of build diversity" issue. It would involve creating a new mechanic in the game called "unique charateristics", would be similar to the hidden skills but its a yes-or-no instead of 0-to-150 and you can have only one of these (hence, unique). Height affecting striking would be nerf a bit and would be used to calculate BMI and put handicap in strength. A really strong 150lb guy is not as strong as a really strong 250lb guy. It just means he is strong for his size. Too high or too low BMI => Strength handicap (Ngannou, for instance, has a BMI of around 29.98, so around 'overweight zone' 25-30 would be the desirable). Things like "long limbs" (Gilberts is taller than Wodley but still has 4 inch disadvantage. A Silva, Jones, Ngannou, Cucuy, they all have long limbs compared to fighters with same height), south paw... These things would give you some bonus in one area but handicap you a bit on others. Long limbs make you better at counter striking (rather than just being tall) but make you more prone to submissions (I kinda disagree with this, anyone that rolls with a long arm mofo knows how annoying it is to face a guillotine spammer with those long thing forearms, it also makes hard to pass those weird worm/squid/lapel guards etc, but hey you gotta give some balance to the game), southpaw makes you more efficient at striking offence, but you also take a hit at striking D (the famous liver hook against southpaws).... You could have about 8 or 10 of these, maybe even as a hidden skill, to give new TotT flavors... "South paw" shows your fighter is left handed, "Big Left Hand" also shows Ko power. EDIT: Yeah, I know muscle mass index is way better than BMI, athletes and trained people totally screw the BMI curve, etc... But thats a realistic detail thats not really going to improve the game mechanics in this, so... BMI 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10thPlanetKT Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Rambo had a good guide on Optional Primaries as well about diverse builds and physical caps. Looking forward to reading your thread. http://www.mmatycoon.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20193 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted May 31, 2020 Report Share Posted May 31, 2020 Yeah weight difference (rather than different energy consumption/power/speed at each weight class) is really only noticable when there is a massive weight difference between two fighter... Like 50 pounds for example. (HWs are a little different as anything over 210 has a lot power and big energy consumption regardless). It's why fighters fighting massively underweight is an issue but when you have fighters 15 pounds or so apart because one cut weight you don't really see a difference. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.