Fedor Emelinenko: Why he's your favorite fighter's favorite fighter...

[iloveme8]

fighters

 

Really? I considered that for a second, but that didn't really make, you know, any kind of sense.

[Guest]

i hate you

[Guest]

lol

[Guest]

i hate you

 

Free AK47!

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/products/1264474424Free_AK47.png

[Guest]

WANT.

 

How much for the shirt??

[Guest]

http://www.mmatycoon.com/clothingpublic.php?cid=1159

 

For sale, AK is starting to have his own line at my store....

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/products/1262508983PostWhore_XL_Yellow.png

 

Train Hard, choke a dragon. I like it.

[Guest]

Awesome, I've bought some AK merch... good times

[Mexinaco]

He's bigger, stronger, a better striker, better in the clinch, he is almost impossible to take down, almost impossible to submit. On the other side there is the fact that Overeem quits easily when hurt. In Fedor's favor is that he has a lot of heart, one punch KO power, very fast, but he is predictable on the feet and can't fight going backwards. That's going to make it hard against Overeem if Fedor doesn't want to move into the clinch. It's not that I don't like Fedor, I like him a lot more as a fighter than Overeem, but styles make fights and I don't think he can win. I would love to see the fight though and be proven wrong.

What proofs do you have to say that?

[Guest]

Totally agreed. K-1 striking is completely different. Semmy Schilt is a perfect example of that. In fact, I won't even concede Overeem is one of the best fighters in K-1, to be honest. He has a 5-4 record with 3 losses coming via KO, 2 of which were in the last year.

How exactly is Semmy a perfect example? How many fighters won a standup fight with Semmy in MMA? Luckily for his opponents Semmy didn't have takedown defense.

 

And what is that nonsense about Overeem's K-1 record? Just compare Overeem to the other top K-1 fighters in their last five fights against top 10 competition.

 

Alistair Overeem 3-2 (Hari, Aerts, Teixeira) (Bonjaski, Hari)

Semmy Schilt 3-2 (LeBanner, Bonjaski, Hari) (Aerts, Hari)

Badr Hari 3-2 (Schilt, Karaev, Overeem) (Overeem, Schilt)

Remy Bonjaski 4-1 (Saki, Hari, Overeem, Zimmerman) (Schilt)

 

If you are going to look at stats in such a superficial manner than I'm not surprised that you think that Fedor is a better standup fighter.

[Guest]

How exactly is Semmy a perfect example? How many fighters won a standup fight with Semmy in MMA? Luckily for his opponents Semmy didn't have takedown defense.

 

And what is that nonsense about Overeem's K-1 record? Just compare Overeem to the other top K-1 fighters in their last five fights against top 10 competition.

 

Alistair Overeem 3-2 (Hari, Aerts, Teixeira) (Bonjaski, Hari)

Semmy Schilt 3-2 (LeBanner, Bonjaski, Hari) (Aerts, Hari)

Badr Hari 3-2 (Schilt, Karaev, Overeem) (Overeem, Schilt)

Remy Bonjaski 4-1 (Saki, Hari, Overeem, Zimmerman) (Schilt)

 

If you are going to look at stats in such a superficial manner than I'm not surprised that you think that Fedor is a better standup fighter.

 

My whole point is that a brilliant K-1 career does not equal MMA success. I cited Semmy as a perfect example of that. Furthermore, Semmy has a K-1 record of like 33-5, with only 2 losses coming via KO. Regardless, I think it would be a far more superficial to even factor in a K-1 fighters record, as it has proven to be completely meaningless in the MMA world.

 

My own distaste for K-1 aside, I never made the argument that Fedor is a better striker than Overeem. On the contrary, in a pure stand-up match I think Overeem would probably win. Probably. Fedor has a puncher's chance in any fight and has dropped guys with a lotter tougher chins than Overeem. Coincidentally, we were actually discussing MMA, in which case I think Fedor is a far more complete fighter. I actually hope that I am wrong about that, as I think Fedor has been overhyped for years and has kept his p4p title despite fighting sub-par competition. At least if he loses, his legacy could be looked at in less of a fanatic, quasi-religious light.

[Guest]

My whole point is that a brilliant K-1 career does not equal MMA success. I cited Semmy as a perfect example of that. Furthermore, Semmy has a K-1 record of 40-5, with only 2 losses coming via KO. Regardless, I think it would be a far more superficial to even factor in a K-1 fighters record, as it has proven to be completely meaningless in the MMA world..

What are you talking about? K-1 credentials are huge in MMA. Although it means nothing more than an ability to fight standing up, Overeem has shown a lot more than that. He has shown good takedown defense and has shown good submission defense. Those go along great with his improved standup game. Fedor is certainly a more complete fighter, but Overeem is good enough in all the areas needed to beat him. There are also far more complete fighters than Brock in the heavyweight division and most of them wouldn't last 30 seconds with him.

[Guest]

What are you talking about? K-1 credentials are huge in MMA.

 

According to whom? With the exception of CroCop (who had 40 amateur boxing matches) tell me one successful K-1 fighter who was successful in MMA...

 

Schilt? Nope. Never could win a match against a top opponent.

Mark Hunt? Had two amazing decision wins and has looked like a bitch ever since, losing his last 5 in a row.

Hari? Had one match totalling 22 seconds teach him he doesn't belong in MMA ever again.

Aerts? LOL.

Le Banner? Fought to a draw with BOB SAPP.

Mighty Mo? Was actually submitted by Semmy!

[Guest]

How can you write that and still be serious? About all of those fighters had their MMA debut in a major organization. Half of them fought in Pride. Of all the fighters you mentioned, only three of them committed themselves to the sport after their K-1 success and one of them became the second best heavyweight in the world at one point.

 

Being a successful K-1 fighter, an olympic wrestler or BJJ world champion doesn't automatically make you a great MMA fighter, but to say that such achievements are "meaningless in MMA" is absolutely ridiculous.

 

 

Great new Fedor highlight btw:

[Guest]

Being a successful K-1 fighter, an olympic wrestler or BJJ world champion doesn't automatically make you a great MMA fighter, but to say that such achievements are "meaningless in MMA" is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Yet you still haven't explained how they are meaningful. "Ridiculous" (I love that your arguments always seem to return to juvenile weasel words instead of reinforcing your position) as I may sound to you, at least I've stated my case. A K-1 pedigree in MMA has never amounted to a damn thing. We are talking about the absolute best kickboxers in the world and not a single one of them have risen above the level of mediocrity in the sport, obviously showing that all the K-1 titles in the world don't mean anything in MMA. Does it show you have striking skills? Absolutely. Does it imply you have an improved chance of success? No, not at all and statistically it's quite the opposite.

 

I consider this thread dead, as the purpose of it split ten pages ago. Feel free to start a new thread on the legitimacy of K-1 as a true combat sport or stay in this one forever, if it pleases ya. In any case, I tip my hat and turn the floor over to you...

[Guest]

You named six K-1 fighters and three of them have wins in Pride, two of them wins in the UFC and one of them was considered to be a top 3 heavyweight in the sport. Whatever, if proving your merit as a striker and being able to hold your MMA debut in a major organization isn't considered meaningful than i guess nothing is.

 

I find it funny how you first engage me in a discussion and then try to downgrade it because you didn't find yourself winning the argument.

[scabscar]

Yes. Game over, you win.

 

I find it funny how you first engage me in a discussion and then try to downgrade it because you didn't find yourself winning the argument.

 

 

Earlier in this very thread. Steeve, ladies and gentlemen. Hypocrisy and stupidity in one little package.

 

You did basically the same thing in our little Aoki argument in the Dynamite! thread, except there you made the questionable logical leap that because my 2nd last post was too long for you to bother to read (it wasnt, especially coming from the guy with 1000+ posts), it couldn't be correct. You start arguments, lose them, and then pretend you never cared while using petty insults like "laughable" and "ridiculous". You called my posts "babbling nonsense". I'm a big boy and can take grade-school insults like that, but everyone can see that you're just wrong.

 

Would you also mind explaining how making a debut on a major organisation, like MMA luminaries Bob Sapp and Bobby Ologun (read up on him, its a funny story) did automatically makes you a good fighter?

 

 

And finally, your last post to me questioned the Penn thing. You asked what I wanted you to say.

 

Are you trolling? You posted something that wasn't true. I would say you were lying but you clearly didn't know what you were talking about.

 

Penn is 3-3 as a Welterweight, possibly 4-3 if you count the Ludwig fight (I don't know what weight it was fought at). He is 1-3 as a UFC welterweight, but that wasn't what you posted. Acknowledging that would have been a good start.

 

[Guest]

Are you sure that makes me a hypocrite?

 

Yes, I like to label comments as laughable and nonsense when I think they are. I never had a girl accusing me of using "weasel words" for calling her beautiful. Don't be so bitter towards me. The problem I have with you is that you have a tendency to manipulate statements or actual events in your favor. An argument with you never seems to get anywhere. The same with that Penn thing. You call me out for ignoring your correction on my Penn statement when it had no bearing whatsoever on what I was trying to say.

 

So Penn has more than four fights as a welterweight. I didn't catch that by "He's 1-3 as a UFC welterweight". I was wrong about that, I'm sorry. You are right, Ludwig usually a lightweight fought Penn as a welterweight. That makes it 2-3. Sorry!

[Guest]

i wouldnt go and say k-1 credentials are meaningless. anyone in mma would want to be a k-1 level striker, but not every guy from k-1 can transfer over. overeem's style of defense is much more suited for k-1 i think. of course in mma, overeem has a lot of other good skills too. he has good ground skills and a good clinch game. so it isnt like overeem is just some k-1 guy who hasnt trained in the other styles. he's good in other areas, he isnt someone like JLB who came in and basically had no ground skills.

 

also...ludwig just started fighting at lightweight. most of his career was at 170 until recently. i think his first lightweight fight was against gomi, or that was one of the first ones at least.

[Guest]

Fman knows what he's talking about here. Couldn't really catch him on anything about his earlier criticism of Overeem either. No need to kick me when I'm down already. All of Ludwigs UFC fights are at 155 right? He also fought Pulver and Genki Sudo right before he fought Penn.

[Guest]

he fought goulet at 170. i'm honestly not sure about genki sudo...was ufc even running 155 at that point? i'd have to look. also not so sure about pulver, but it'd make sense. wouldnt be surprised if pulder fought him at a higher weight class though. i saw that fight but dont know the weight..i do remember ludwig knocking pulver out though and pulver like rolling out of the ring, heh.

 

ufc was running 155 at the time...just looked. i guess he mightve fought there a bit earlier than i thought. he has jumped around a bit between that and 170 though. i thought he only started to cut to 155 because everytime he makes the weight he looks sickly and looks like he hasnt gone down that much. so yeah...he has been down to 155 quite a bit more than i thought.

 

he did fight bj penn at 170 though, heh.

[scabscar]

Are you sure that makes me a hypocrite?

 

Yes, I like to label comments as laughable and nonsense when I think they are. I never had a girl accusing me of using "weasel words" for calling her beautiful. Don't be so bitter towards me. The problem I have with you is that you have a tendency to manipulate statements or actual events in your favor. An argument with you never seems to get anywhere. The same with that Penn thing. You call me out for ignoring your correction on my Penn statement when it had no bearing whatsoever on what I was trying to say.

 

So Penn has more than four fights as a welterweight. I didn't catch that by "He's 1-3 as a UFC welterweight". I was wrong about that, I'm sorry. You are right, Ludwig usually a lightweight fought Penn as a welterweight. That makes it 2-3. Sorry!

 

 

Ah, so its a problem of debating technique - I see. Here's a protip: you can quickly swing an argument in your favour by being right.

 

Yes, i do think that makes you hypocritical. You ran away from a debate both in this thread earlier, and in the Dynamite! thread (and I don't for a second believe that you actually didn't read my post there) when it seemed you were losing. You then accused someone else of "downgrading it because you didn't find yourself winning the argument." The only difference I can spot is that you posted a smiley face when "downgrading" the argument.

 

Your problem, grasshopper, is that you seem to confuse someone stating an opinion and then posting facts that back it up to be "manipulating statements or actual events in your favour". That's the point of facts, kiddo - they are independent of opinion. If they prove your opinions right, then you say them. "Manipulating" suggests that I am somehow falsifying my facts, and if I'm doing this, please tell me. This is why i called you out on Penn - If you post a fact that is incorrect, it casts suspicion on everything else you say, even when it's not directly related. I'm just looking out for you, really.

 

As to your "girl" metaphor (You do seem to like metaphors, don't you), the same girl probably would take offense if you said she was "ridiculous" and "laughable", which are the equally unprovable words you actually used and I (and emericuh) objected to.

 

Oh, and Penn fought Rodrigo and Renzo Gracie at WW - they were both small middleweights at the time, and Penn fought at 170. He won both times, making his record 4-3. At WW. Overall. As far as I know. Anyone know what weight he fought Goulet at?

 

You think I'm bitter and snarky? You're right. Sorry, just the way I am. I compensate by being right.

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Oh, and Penn fought Rodrigo and Renzo Gracie at WW - they were both small middleweights at the time, and Penn fought at 170. He won both times, making his record 4-3. At WW. Overall. As far as I know. Anyone know what weight he fought Goulet at?

See this is an example of twisting actual events in your favor. Those fights were not at welterweight, they were at middleweight. I'm pretty sure that you know this, but you are so stubborn that you rather twist the actual events than admit that you are wrong. In this case you do it with your "small middleweight" nonsense. BJ Penn was far above 170 in both fights.

 

So no, I can not swing an argument in my favor by being right, not when arguing with you anyway. So don't be surprised when I get the feeling that arguing with you isn't going anywhere.

 

Penn didn't fight Goulet.

[Guest]

those fights were at middleweight...pretty sure anyway. i was off with ludwig so who knows, heh.

[scabscar]

See this is an example of twisting actual events in your favor. Those fights were not at welterweight, they were at middleweight. I'm pretty sure that you know this, but you are so stubborn that you rather twist the actual events than admit that you are wrong. In this case you do it with your "small middleweight" nonsense. BJ Penn was far above 170 in both fights.

 

So no, I can not swing an argument in my favor by being right, not when arguing with you anyway. So don't be surprised when I get the feeling that arguing with you isn't going anywhere.

 

Penn didn't fight Goulet.

 

You are applying UFC weight classes to fights outside the UFC. Penn was at 190lbs when he fought Machida, who weighed 220lbs in the same promotion - these fights for K-1/ Rumble on the Rock were technically openweight fights, but I count them because Penn fought at 170 against Renzo and Rodrigo. I mentioned that they were small middleweights to show that it wasn't a crappy show of matchmaking. Not everything that I post is an attempted burn on you, jeez.

 

here is a link to the official results of the Rodrigo fight: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go...4c-5b280f771d92

 

and to the K-1 website that shows the fighters weights for Renzo: http://k-1sport.de/en/database/head2head.p...mp;fighter2=362

 

Note that for the Rodrigo fight, he was at 170. Turns out I was wrong about Renzo, though - he was at 155 for that (70kg, as the link says).

 

This is another problem I have with your posts, kid - you say things like "Penn was far above 170 for both fights" like you actually know it for a fact. Even if my sources are completely lying to me, and I really doubt they are, at least i have them, and show them.

 

So, I guess Penn stands at 3-3 at WW. I'm open to corrections.

[Guest]

In his first fight for FEG, Penn fought again at welterweight (170 pounds) and defeated Duane Ludwig at the 2004 K-1 MMA Romanex show in under five minutes by arm triangle choke.[1] Following the Ludwig fight, Penn moved up in weight class to face the undefeated Rodrigo Gracie at middleweight (185 pounds).[15] Penn won by decision, extending his winning streak to four fights.[8]

On March 26, 2005, at the inaugural event of FEG's new MMA promotion Hero's, Penn faced light heavyweight Lyoto Machida, losing by unanimous decision at K-1 Hero's 1. The fight happened at an open weight class with Penn weighing in at 86.5 kilograms (191 lb) and Machida 102 kilograms (220 lb).[16] Later that year at K-1 World Grand Prix Hawaii, Penn returned to middleweight to face Renzo Gracie and won by unanimous decision.[1]

 

from wikipedia...so take it anyway you want. i dont think that k-1 link you gave is all that legit though. they probably just put in bj's usual weight class.