What if we dropped the ID Ranges?

[jjsquirrel]

The idea of id orgs is a pretty nice one to have fighters compete at their current level. But looking at how slow we are moving towards 360K I think the whole thing also hurts the game.

 

A fighter created now (359K) will be slaughtered by anyone from the 355K range. It's practically a noob trap with everyone sitting around waiting and new players who happen to join now just out of luck with a bad experience trying to get QFC fights, joining an org or whatever they do really.

This got me thinking about how the id:s progress at different pace. A 358 and 359K might as well have been in different id ranges considering the training time difference while a 360 and 361K will be practically the same after the 360K frenzy hits.

 

Id orgs are by definition stuck with a decreasing pool of fighters and doomed to eventually close or try to handle a difficult transition into a lower range.

 

What if we had orgs based on something else, like total skill points of fighters?

We would have the orgs tiered for different levels with the top ones being unlimited rather than open id. It would mean a constant influx of new fighters, but also that you lose some when they move on to compete for shinier belts. And eventually you may get them back as they are getting old but still want to keep on fighting.

 

You would have some problems with having to strip belts (if you decide to give them out). But I think fighter progression between orgs would be more natural. What BuffMinion is doing with his teen org is basically this on the lowest possible tier.

 

A fast learner private gym beast would compete against similar level fighters instead of crushing id cans. He would just make it faster into the big orgs and spend more of his career fighting at higher level. Slow learners or public gym fighters would still be perfectly viable to keep for a whole career if you don't mind spending most of it in less glamorous orgs.

 

I imagine some orgs would want to try and move up the food chain, increasing their cap over time to move with their fighters (practically as id org but not locked to the id). Some would stay static and let fighters come and go. Just an idea which I'm sure someone will soon come by and shoot down with reasons how it wouldn't work. But thinking about it I imagine a more alive & realistic game world. The id thing always felt artificial to me and I know it is not intuitive for new players.

[JakeF]

Hmm, what comes to my mind is to have two types of orgs:

 

• skill points restricted org
• skill points unrestricted org

The type of org should be chosen at creation by the org owner. There should be a tick "skill points restricted org" with a drop-down menu next to it, determining the range of skill points that will be allowed to sign for that org:

 

• 661 to 1200
• 1201 to 1800
• 1801 to 2200
• 2201 to 2600

These are example values and could be revised and changed. I prefer to have a floor value, not only a ceiling one, to avoid or decrease the possibilities for can-crushing.

 

If the owner picks the option for skill points restricted org, he must chose the skill point range of the restriction. That restriction should be listed on the org's page. Org owners of such orgs shouldn't be able to sign fighters out of the chosen restriction. If a fighter who has already been signed to such org goes out of the restriction rating(improved his skills from training), then the org owner shouldn't be able to book fights for that fighter anymore. If such fighter is a champion, then the org owner should be able to strip him without losing hype. Also, the org owner should be able to get a partial refund for the signing bonus he has paid to such fighter:

 

refund amount = (signing bonus) / (total number of fights of the contract) * (remaining number of fights of the contract)

 

Example: Org signs a fighter to a 5-fight contract and pays 10 000 signing bonus. After getting 3 fights, that fighter is already over the skill point restriction limit of the org, so the contract gets terminated.

 

refund amount = (10 000 / 5) * 2 = 4 000

 

This refund amount should be withdrawn from the fighter's balance. If there isn't enough money in the fighter's bank, then it should be withdrawn from the manager's balance.

 

An option for the game to automatically terminate the contract and strip the belt should be thought of by Mike and implemented if possible.

 

Going back to org creation page, if the org owner decides not to tick "skill points restricted org" at org creation, then everything continues as it is now - you can do an ID-restricted org, an unrestricted org, etc.

 

Also there should be an option to change an org's status from "skill points restricted org" to "skill points unrestricted org" or vice-versa. Changing from unrestricted to restricted should automatically terminate the contracts of fighters who are already outside of the picked restriction range.

 

Also I am pretty sure that org owners would ask for the opportunity to run only some weight divisions as restricted and the rest as unrestricted.

 

Generally, I like the idea, but it requires a deep thought process about a lot of stuff and I guess a lot of programming by Mike. The idea is impossible to happen without programming the restrictions, first because org owners can't see the actual total skill points of a fighter(even the fighter owner can see the correct value only on Sunday if he is a VIP) and second, even if org owners are able to see the total skill points, there could be exploits by booking easy fights if none restrictions were coded.

[poraan]

Honestly i think the problem is that some people dont know how to build or train fighter.

We got orgs between big numbers and instead of focusing into 360k, maybe some one should have already done 357/8 org.

Actually seems like we have four 355 orgs and one 358 org.

 

Bigger problem is that why do orgs sign fighters that belong to higher ID-orgs? For example there is 358k id fighter at 340k org, wich is quite sad.

 

 

Total skill org wouldnt work, because people wont know each other total skills and it would be quite hard to keep asking total skills etc.

 

Honestly org with primary skill points could work.

110 point limited org would allow to have 119boxing, 119 myaithai, 119 wrestling and bjj brown belt. Or it could be total 300 point org, wich would allow differend builds like 13 boxing, 5 myathai,11 wrestling and blue belt bjj.

In this kind of org again you could make super fighter, but it would be differend kind of org, kind of something between normal and no training orgs.

 

[jjsquirrel]

That would be one way of doing it JakeF, but I was thinking of something less strict and more player managed. Having Mike support it with some coding would be great and not necessarily a lot of work since the only real showstopper is as you say seeing a fighters current level. Org owners can already see a star rating when booking fights. Not sure how that is calculated, but just showing a star rating for total skills visible to everyone could solve most of that. Maybe the orgs would rather be called 3-star, 4-star etc then.

 

I would prefer if the game has a few hard limits as possible, like how it is technically possible for id orgs to sign outside of their range today (but also clearly visible to everyone when they do). I actually don't mind leaving room for some shady business and mismatches from a game design perspective, we need something to argue and point fingers about on the forums after all. And It does also open up for more player creativity, weird tournaments etc.

[Shards]

Problem is most people do not want to lose their best fighters because their primaries are too high or he's too skilled. I'm pretty sure the goal for most people creating these orgs is to grow with the fighters, I suspect not nearly as many people would be fine with just being the low level org forever.

[Monsieur.Camara]

thats gonna be a NO Dawg

[XxxtremeT13]

Just because the skills of the fighters signed to an org, doesn't mean it has to be considered a low level org....all you need are fighters with high hype/pop ratings and an org can flourish with great success and make good money still..If you are insuring that all the fighters signed are within a certain skill point set, then that means less chance of uneven fights...I ran into issues a number of times where I couldn't pair my top 2 hyped fighters do to the obvious skill level difference, which sucks for the lower total skill point fighter because he should have a crack at the title, but in doing so is nearly certain to get crushed..having this option would insure that all the fighters are within a reasonable total skill point set to be successful. This also means that those who don't have access to the greatest of training will always be in the same skill level, even if there is a large gap in ID range...Not to mention this would allow those who want to fight more often to be able to do so and still be able to win fights...Currently, this isn't viable as if these fighters don't training often enough to increase skills they will be overtaken and unable to win fights and eventually sack the fighters or the manager may lose interest and stop playing (basically newer users).

[jjsquirrel]

Good points XxxtremeT13.

 

And yes Shards you are probably right, but you still have that option, probably even more so than before. You could let your skill range increase with the growth of your fighters if you want. But you will get into competing range with higher level orgs who probably have higher hyped fighters, are earning more money and can offer better contracts. And you may also lose some in the other end going to lower level orgs if they feel they cannot keep up. So won't be easy and I could see how some orgs would decide to stay for a long time at a certain range and make it their thing.

 

There are both good and bad things about it, but I think one of the best things that could happen for the game as a whole is if there was always an entry level org (or several) available for new fighters. That would make more new managers stay around.

[Monsieur.Camara]

still a big no

 

(did not read by the way)

[10thPlanetKT]

no