Mentoring should there be!!!

[TK]

Sliders are everything. I've won fights I'd lost on paper before due to superior slider-work. Of course, you'll have to build your sliders around your build and (as you learn more about your fighter) hiddens, This is why I always ask people about specific stats while helping them. That's just me, though.

 

 

I respectfully disagree. Sliders won't allow a poorly built fighter to beat someone who is better than him in the key areas very often.

Of course, anyone who helps someone else with tactics would ask how their guys secondaries are, so no, it's not just you.

 

Anyway, you've missed my point, as I'm not saying that slider tactics aren't important.

 

What I'm saying is, when a manager asks for help with his sliders for a fight in a day or two, even by giving them the sort of advice which has carried me to a few wins, it won't always do them any good.

 

For example, if a guy has built a crappy boxer, with mediocre strike defense and abysmal agility, and has accepted a fight against a well built boxer, the best slider advice in the world isn't going to magic up his ability to stand and bang.

 

I've learned this the hard way, hence me saying that leaving it to fight time to plan for victory is often times too late, especially with a poor build.

Even after clearly, and compassionately, suggesting to them that perhaps they shouldn't get their hopes for victory up as on paper the other guy looks better hasn't been enough to prevent the, "fat lot of good you did", comments after his guy got pasted.

 

 

[Guest]

A few months and you've only had 7 fights?

 

An idea would be to actually get out there and fight, instead of just keeping guys in training. Until you break 950 skill points your guaranteed a relatively fair fight in the QFC.

 

Absolutely not true.

 

There is no guarantee that you will get a fair fight in the QFC. And you can only do so much with sliders when you are heavily out matched.

 

See this Fight. Check out each fighters primaries and tell me if this is a fair fight. The fight went the distance, which I think is about all one could have asked of my guy.

 

I made a thread about it but it didn't say much about the implications (I was conscious of not making excuses):

 

QFC Mismatch

 

I don't think this is good for Tycoon. It's going to shut out new comers. QFC matches need to be modified.

[Guest]

Absolutely not true.

 

There is no guarantee that you will get a fair fight in the QFC. And you can only do so much with sliders when you are heavily out matched.

 

See this Fight. Check out each fighters primaries and tell me if this is a fair fight. The fight went the distance, which I think is about all one could have asked of my guy.

 

I made a thread about it but it didn't say much about the implications (I was conscious of not making excuses):

 

QFC Mismatch

 

I don't think this is good for Tycoon. It's going to shut out new comers. QFC matches need to be modified.

It is likely that your fighter was already over the 950 total skill point limit for Tier I of QFC, which is why you ended up with this mismatch. Perhaps the 950 limit needs to be looked at, as if someone builds a 22 year-old, as you did, it really doesn't take much to move from the 814 at creation to the 950 which kicks you into Tier II. Especially is someone does the standard build of strength=1 & conditioning=10, as a those can quickly be trained up. Getting conditioning up to Wonderful & strength up to Mediocre means you are in Tier II. That can be done in a month. Joshua has two months between his first QFC and this one, so I'd be surprised if he was still below 950 total skill points.

[Guest]

It is likely that your fighter was already over the 950 total skill point limit for Tier I of QFC, which is why you ended up with this mismatch. Perhaps the 950 limit needs to be looked at, as if someone builds a 22 year-old, as you did, it really doesn't take much to move from the 814 at creation to the 950 which kicks you into Tier II. Especially is someone does the standard build of strength=1 & conditioning=10, as a those can quickly be trained up. Getting conditioning up to Wonderful & strength up to Mediocre means you are in Tier II. That can be done in a month. Joshua has two months between his first QFC and this one, so I'd be surprised if he was still below 950 total skill points.

 

Still it's a significant disparity either way.

 

What's the alternative? Clearly my fighter will not fare well if he's to go against fighters built by experienced managers.

 

Should I discard him?

 

And then how are even greener noobs supposed deal with this. Even after reading the Wiki and everything else, noobs are still going to be wayyy behind the curve do to the complexities involved.

 

I think you're right. The 950 limit should be reviewed.

[Guest]

Still it's a significant disparity either way.

 

What's the alternative? Clearly my fighter will not fare well if he's to go against fighters built by experienced managers.

 

Should I discard him?

How about signing with an org where you most likely will be able to face competition that is at a similar level as he is?

 

As I understand Mike's intention with QFC (and I've never done one, so I really don't care too much about them one way or another) is that they can provide a quick early fight for the newly created fighter before signing with a proper organization. They really aren't intended to be used by experienced fighters, but at times some people want to go back to them because they aren't getting fights and need to make some money or try to improve their record, or there is the situation of the project fighters who have been training for a long time without any fighting. The second tier of QFC was added specifically for those types of fighters, so they wouldn't be beating up on the newly created fighter. So yes, there is going to be a risk whenever you take a QFC with a fighter who has been around for a while that you'll end up in a mismatch. Don't see why that would mean you should discard a fighter; but I also don't see a strong reason why you should really need to be putting such a fighter in a QFC either.

[Guest]

How about signing with an org where you most likely will be able to face competition that is at a similar level as he is?

 

As I understand Mike's intention with QFC (and I've never done one, so I really don't care too much about them one way or another) is that they can provide a quick early fight for the newly created fighter before signing with a proper organization. They really aren't intended to be used by experienced fighters, but at times some people want to go back to them because they aren't getting fights and need to make some money or try to improve their record, or there is the situation of the project fighters who have been training for a long time without any fighting. The second tier of QFC was added specifically for those types of fighters, so they wouldn't be beating up on the newly created fighter. So yes, there is going to be a risk whenever you take a QFC with a fighter who has been around for a while that you'll end up in a mismatch. Don't see why that would mean you should discard a fighter; but I also don't see a strong reason why you should really need to be putting such a fighter in a QFC either.

 

Well my fighter is screwed then.

 

The org he was with folded. He had a record of 1-1, winning his last fight. He was getting on track. I thought in order to get a better contract I'd do a QFC fight or two. Now he's 1-2, not very appealing. It's one thing if he were lost to another crappy fighter but he was completely outmatched.

 

As his money dwindles waiting for a contract is he supposed to wait? or do another QFC? Where there's a decent chance for another mismatch and consequently a 1-3 record. I think I should just sack him and make a more competitive fighter, though he is improving a lot.

[Guest]

I respectfully disagree. Sliders won't allow a poorly built fighter to beat someone who is better than him in the key areas very often.

Of course, anyone who helps someone else with tactics would ask how their guys secondaries are, so no, it's not just you.

 

Anyway, you've missed my point, as I'm not saying that slider tactics aren't important.

 

What I'm saying is, when a manager asks for help with his sliders for a fight in a day or two, even by giving them the sort of advice which has carried me to a few wins, it won't always do them any good.

 

For example, if a guy has built a crappy boxer, with mediocre strike defense and abysmal agility, and has accepted a fight against a well built boxer, the best slider advice in the world isn't going to magic up his ability to stand and bang.

 

I've learned this the hard way, hence me saying that leaving it to fight time to plan for victory is often times too late, especially with a poor build.

Even after clearly, and compassionately, suggesting to them that perhaps they shouldn't get their hopes for victory up as on paper the other guy looks better hasn't been enough to prevent the, "fat lot of good you did", comments after his guy got pasted.

 

Sliders might. I've done it myself.

 

If you know about his boxer having abysmal agility and mediocre striking defense, you tell him not to stand and bang. Crappy boxer usually have their points somewhere else. Sure, the fight isn't exactly in his favor, but trying to stand with a much better striker is usually a dumb thing anyways.

 

 

People might be stupid or dicks, but that doesn't lessen the value of sliders. You already informed the person about his chances of winning, and most people I've helped seem to understand that. I might just have gotten lucky, I don't know.

[TK]

Sliders might. I've done it myself.

 

If you know about his boxer having abysmal agility and mediocre striking defense, you tell him not to stand and bang. Crappy boxer usually have their points somewhere else. Sure, the fight isn't exactly in his favor, but trying to stand with a much better striker is usually a dumb thing anyways.

 

 

People might be stupid or dicks, but that doesn't lessen the value of sliders. You already informed the person about his chances of winning, and most people I've helped seem to understand that. I might just have gotten lucky, I don't know.

 

 

Mate, the first time you singled out one of my comments, you did so with the opening line, "sliders are everything".

I believe this is an untrue comment, and explained why, with my thinking being based on this premise:

 

1. Managers who ask for help usually do so because they don't know what they are doing.

2. Managers who don't know what they are doing usually allocate their skill points incongruously.

3. Managers who allocate their skill points incongruously usually have little chance of winning against a good manager even with good sliders.

 

I believe, as I said, that the best way is to build a fighter correctly, train him correctly, and then fight him correctly.

Asking for slider help on a lot of these poorly built fighters is akin to doing f*ck all college work all year, then cramming the night before the big test.

 

I understand what you are saying and totally agree that a good manager can use the sliders to such an advantage that he may reasonably expect to beat somebody far superior on paper and in past accomplishments.

 

As I said in my previous post, I respectfully disagree that, "sliders are everything", and am not for swaying, unless it involves bribery, in which case sway away

 

 

[Guest]

Mate, the first time you singled out one of my comments, you did so with the opening line, "sliders are everything".

I believe this is an untrue comment, and explained why, with my thinking being based on this premise:

 

1. Managers who ask for help usually do so because they don't know what they are doing.

2. Managers who don't know what they are doing usually allocate their skill points incongruously.

3. Managers who allocate their skill points incongruously usually have little chance of winning against a good manager even with good sliders.

 

I believe, as I said, that the best way is to build a fighter correctly, train him correctly, and then fight him correctly.

Asking for slider help on a lot of these poorly built fighters is akin to doing f*ck all college work all year, then cramming the night before the big test.

 

I understand what you are saying and totally agree that a good manager can use the sliders to such an advantage that he may reasonably expect to beat somebody far superior on paper and in past accomplishments.

 

As I said in my previous post, I respectfully disagree that, "sliders are everything", and am not for swaying, unless it involves bribery, in which case sway away

 

5 of my wons were because of sliding. Poor trained 18 years fighters, only str and cardio trained... But, again, IMO, because it was against bad sliders or crappy builds [like full BJJ with useless boxing, mt and wrestling]. In this cases... Yeah, slide is everything.

 

When fighting against a average manager. Both good managers... Slides can of course do the diference, but they just aren't everything, gotta go with TK.

 

IMO, sliding was everything in my fights and will still be for some time. But I'm not completely out of the noob sphere yet, and my fighters... well... still are crappy...

[Guest]

Mate, the first time you singled out one of my comments, you did so with the opening line, "sliders are everything".

I believe this is an untrue comment, and explained why, with my thinking being based on this premise:

 

1. Managers who ask for help usually do so because they don't know what they are doing.

2. Managers who don't know what they are doing usually allocate their skill points incongruously.

3. Managers who allocate their skill points incongruously usually have little chance of winning against a good manager even with good sliders.

 

I believe, as I said, that the best way is to build a fighter correctly, train him correctly, and then fight him correctly.

Asking for slider help on a lot of these poorly built fighters is akin to doing f*ck all college work all year, then cramming the night before the big test.

 

I understand what you are saying and totally agree that a good manager can use the sliders to such an advantage that he may reasonably expect to beat somebody far superior on paper and in past accomplishments.

 

As I said in my previous post, I respectfully disagree that, "sliders are everything", and am not for swaying, unless it involves bribery, in which case sway away

 

Of course, all the sliders in the world won't help a uselessx4 beat anyone, but I'm assuming that people asking for help have fighters that have one strong point. Guess I'm spoiled by chat.

 

1. Slider proficiency =/= decent builds, but I see what you're getting at.

2. As I said, I'm spoiled by chat. I usually throw them a few guides on the basics.

3. If he has something that is an advantage, he can possibly grind out a win. A good manager will usually have good sliders too, though.

 

As I said, I've helped poor fighters pull through and have had poor fighters of my own pull through with the help of sliders. It is purely anecdotal, and I can't back it up with anything else than my word.

 

I admit, I was kinda pushing it to the extreme claiming that you can win anything with just sliders and sliders alone. That was just because I was too lazy to reply properly, but still wanted to get my point across; I see people go like "holy shit I can't beat this guy" based on primaries and primaries alone, when I can see gaping hole in them based on their age, previous fights and size.

[MattyBlayze]

I never even used Chat.

 

Why not? All the cool kids are doing it...

[man5616]

every fighter is different...what works slider wise on one, might not on another with the same skill set..ie some r slow starters, others go straight into 'berserker mode'...only way to tell is to fight and get a feel for him...a mentor prob wont look thru it with the love and detail it needs to be addressed with.......so my advice is 'fuck worrying about rank, wins, losses..and just try some shit, and see how each individual fighter reacts to it'

[Guest]

Chat,forum and alliance help a lot.