Modified Clinch<>Stay Outside slider to allow for controlling distance

[Guest]

Just thinking it might be nice to change the slider to work like so.

 

Try to Clinch< | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | >Stay on the Outside

Stay Close

 

This would allow people to crowd a fighter and limit their kicks ala Chuck Lidell.

[backelie]

I think a slider for distance is a good idea. (I've suggested it before )

It would need to be a separate slider though, you can't put 'do something else' in the middle of a slider, that's not how they work.

 

Stay in pocket <-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-> Get on your bike

[Face Kicker]

I think a slider for distance is a good idea. (I've suggested it before )

It would need to be a separate slider though, you can't put 'do something else' in the middle of a slider, that's not how they work.

 

Stay in pocket <-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-> Get on your bike

 

+1

[Anon]

I think a slider for distance is a good idea. (I've suggested it before )

It would need to be a separate slider though, you can't put 'do something else' in the middle of a slider, that's not how they work.

 

Stay in pocket <-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-> Get on your bike

 

I like this option. It shouldn't be part of the clinch slider, as then you couldn't stay close but not try to clinch. While it should be easier to force someone who's staying close into a clinch, that fighter shouldn't try to clinch unless he's set to do so in the clinch slider.

[Guest]

+1

 

Nice Idea

[Guest]

I agree I understand where your coming from with it needing to be a separate slider, I just associated it with Stay on the Outside and Try to Clinch because in theory staying on the outside is somewhere around far striking range and trying to clinch is close range.

[CardiffWanderer]

I think this is potentially a very good idea but how do you perceive the advantages/disadvantages would be and how would this add to the game.

 

On the outside it would be harder to get clinch and you would be looking to control distance and using kicks would be an advantage but at the same time it would be harder to land shots, especially ones that will knock your opponent out as you won't be in range. On the other side, you are far more likely to be ko'd in the pocket and far more easily clinched however every shot you land will be slightly crisper and it would also incur far higher fight ratings/popularity

 

Also what skills would it involve? Would you need a smart fighter to stay where you fight best? What about skills, speed to close the distance, balance to back peddle out of there?

[Guest]

mike said that this was something that he would like to add one day. i hope he hurries the hell up

[Guest]

VFC your making it more complex then it has to be.

 

IMO it's your fighters general gameplan, staying back a bit would give you room to throw monster head kicks as legs have good reach, but it would make punches less likely to be effective, it would also help you stay out of the clinch/takedowns.

 

IMO getting close would decrease the chance your opponent could pull off kicks, make your punches land better, and leave you more open to clinch/takedowns.

 

You could make balance and all that control how your fighter moves to that position but I'm looking at this more as where he's going to set his positioning in the fight. I'm looking at it as an absolute slider instead of a percentage.

[CardiffWanderer]

VFC your making it more complex then it has to be.

 

IMO it's your fighters general gameplan, staying back a bit would give you room to throw monster head kicks as legs have good reach, but it would make punches less likely to be effective, it would also help you stay out of the clinch/takedowns.

 

IMO getting close would decrease the chance your opponent could pull off kicks, make your punches land better, and leave you more open to clinch/takedowns.

 

You could make balance and all that control how your fighter moves to that position but I'm looking at this more as where he's going to set his positioning in the fight. I'm looking at it as an absolute slider instead of a percentage.

 

I don't think you understand how complicated this game is. Nothing is absolute and everything is interconnected so why would you add something that stood alone?

[Guest]

I don't think you understand how complicated this game is. Nothing is absolute and everything is interconnected so why would you add something that stood alone?

lol i think you might need to type in fight tactics in the wiki search. then take a peek at 1.1

[CardiffWanderer]

lol i think you might need to type in fight tactics in the wiki search. then take a peek at 1.1

 

That is absolute in the terms of a progression tree. It does not absolutely mean you will do what you have put in.

 

So if you set to 100% takedowns, the code will look to takedown and then play that sequence to see if it happens or not. This still depends on wrestling skill, takedown offense, speed, strength etc for it to be successful.

 

If you set the fighter to 100% follow orders you could argue the stay standing/ follow to the floor slider is absolute but this is only determinate on your fighter not both fighters which is the case of distance isn't true.

 

Both fighters will determine where the fight happens and so you will need something to differentiate them otherwise the game will not work.

[Guest]

That is absolute in the terms of a progression tree. It does not absolutely mean you will do what you have put in.

 

So if you set to 100% takedowns, the code will look to takedown and then play that sequence to see if it happens or not. This still depends on wrestling skill, takedown offense, speed, strength etc for it to be successful.

 

If you set the fighter to 100% follow orders you could argue the stay standing/ follow to the floor slider is absolute but this is only determinate on your fighter not both fighters which is the case of distance isn't true.

 

Both fighters will determine where the fight happens and so you will need something to differentiate them otherwise the game will not work.

as far as absolute goes. if you put takedowns 100% then you'll try takedowns every time. its absolute. ofcoarse whether you are successful or not has other factors but thats beside the point. the slider is absolute.

 

 

as far as a distance slider on the other hand. how that would be worked is something that would have to be thought about very carefully.

 

if it is absolute then it might would have to work where maybe a fighter only performs moves when he successfully gets within the set range. it would be just like the strike/sub vs advance position slider is on the ground. you try to achieve a certain position or you can set and strike from guard. the higher you go on the hierarchy (closer you get) you get the more dominant it would be. so perhaps you could use a tier system as to where completely inside would be viewed as the most dominant position for a striker. but in order to tie it in with how everything else works, the farther you go up the list of dominant positions the more risky it is for takedowns, clinch, etc.

 

it would certainly add a lot of strategy to the game and add to part of what makes the game tick. which is the better you understand the game engine the better you'll be as a manager

[CardiffWanderer]

as far as absolute goes. if you put takedowns 100% then you'll try takedowns every time. its absolute. ofcoarse whether you are successful or not has other factors but thats beside the point. the slider is absolute.

 

 

as far as a distance slider on the other hand. how that would be worked is something that would have to be thought about very carefully.

 

if it is absolute then it might would have to work where maybe a fighter only performs moves when he successfully gets within the set range. it would be just like the strike/sub vs advance position slider is on the ground. you try to achieve a certain position or you can set and strike from guard. the higher you go on the hierarchy (closer you get) you get the more dominant it would be. so perhaps you could use a tier system as to where completely inside would be viewed as the most dominant position for a striker. but in order to tie it in with how everything else works, the farther you go up the list of dominant positions the more risky it is for takedowns, clinch, etc.

 

it would certainly add a lot of strategy to the game and add to part of what makes the game tick. which is the better you understand the game engine the better you'll be as a manager

 

That would also make a lot of sense. Especially if you do something with power. There is obviously a sweet spot (which is going to be different for punches and kicks) where you can unleash the most power but the closer you are (less swing room) or too far away (where people can move away from the strike).

 

There may even be circumstances where people are coming forward and the further away man is in the sweet spot so maybe there would be a way of making that flexible?

[Guest]

That would also make a lot of sense. Especially if you do something with power. There is obviously a sweet spot (which is going to be different for punches and kicks) where you can unleash the most power but the closer you are (less swing room) or too far away (where people can move away from the strike).

 

There may even be circumstances where people are coming forward and the further away man is in the sweet spot so maybe there would be a way of making that flexible?

yea i agree. i had forgot about kicks in my initial thoughts. but that just adds even more strategy.

 

the sweet spot would definately be there. for a strictly striker the sweet spot [edit] [as far as damage is concerned] would obviously be on the inside. the sweet spot for kicks would obviously be on the outside. the sweet spot for an effective gameplan would have to be determined by the manager and what results he's chasing after.

 

if you intend to work both punches and kicks into your gameplan then you may choose to be more in the middle. just depending on how you feel the fight may play out.

 

 

 

just based off of how my brain is churning right now i'll definately say this is a very interesting idea. kinda makes me feel sorry for mike though. he's the one that has to get all this stuff thought out correctly and then implemented. one job im glad i dont have to do lol

[Guest]

as i think more about it. i see it like this:

 

punches on the inside would generate more power as a whole. so even if you wer 100% accuracy then an accurate punch on the inside would be more powerful than an accurate punch from the outside

 

punches on the outside would generate less power as a whole but be more accurate than an accurate punch on the inside. coining the term " staying on the outside and picking your opponent apart"

 

 

kicks on the other hand would have to be different than the above as i would think that they would be more accurate AND generate more power from the outside.

 

so that could possibly open up another avenue for knees other than just in the clinch. possibly when your in close and a kick just isnt logical then a knee would be the attack of choice. or if your knee skills arent good then you would look to advance position to the outside so you COULD throw kicks again.

 

you could possibly even implement elbows from the inside aswell.

 

 

i feel like i (we) may be traveling down a road that involves too much of an alteration to the current game engine for it to even be feesable without just scrapping the whole thing. which isnt realistic lol

[CardiffWanderer]

as i think more about it. i see it like this:

 

punches on the inside would generate more power as a whole. so even if you wer 100% accuracy then an accurate punch on the inside would be more powerful than an accurate punch from the outside

 

punches on the outside would generate less power as a whole but be more accurate than an accurate punch on the inside. coining the term " staying on the outside and picking your opponent apart"

 

 

kicks on the other hand would have to be different than the above as i would think that they would be more accurate AND generate more power from the outside.

 

so that could possibly open up another avenue for knees other than just in the clinch. possibly when your in close and a kick just isnt logical then a knee would be the attack of choice. or if your knee skills arent good then you would look to advance position to the outside so you COULD throw kicks again.

 

you could possibly even implement elbows from the inside aswell.

 

 

i feel like i (we) may be traveling down a road that involves too much of an alteration to the current game engine for it to even be feesable without just scrapping the whole thing. which isnt realistic lol

 

On the whole, if your too close (in real life) you cannot generate as much power as being in the pocket but there are other advantages of being in that position however we are going into the realms of difficultly.

 

For these advances to work, I do believe it would need to come with a package of changes rather than on there own otherwise it could really mess with the game balance.

 

[Guest]

On the whole, if your too close (in real life) you cannot generate as much power as being in the pocket but there are other advantages of being in that position however we are going into the realms of difficultly.

 

For these advances to work, I do believe it would need to come with a package of changes rather than on there own otherwise it could really mess with the game balance.

honestly logically i dont see where your coming from by saying "too close"? why would that be an option? who would put there slider to go too close? it just doesnt make sense to me to be that way. if your too close then your probly clinching, wouldnt you say? i dont think that ppl are gonna actually try to have there fighters standing chest to chest trying to box.

 

 

imagine if two fighters had there tactics set to get in "too close" and there avoid clinch slider set to 100%. can you see that happening? they would literally be stepping on each others feet yet trying there hardest to avoid getting tangled up in a clinch.

 

for simplicity i would think that on one side of the slider it would be "fight on the outside" and on the other side it would be "fight on the inside". inside being considered the prime punching distance. by having it that way it would allow for two fighters to meet in the center of the cage and slug it out. ive never seen two fighters meet in the middle of the cage and be "too" close to fight?

 

fight on the outside would have pro's and con's

 

fight on the inside would have pro's and con's.

[CardiffWanderer]

honestly logically i dont see where your coming from by saying "too close"? why would that be an option? who would put there slider to go too close? it just doesnt make sense to me to be that way. if your too close then your probly clinching, wouldnt you say? i dont think that ppl are gonna actually try to have there fighters standing chest to chest trying to box.

 

 

imagine if two fighters had there tactics set to get in "too close" and there avoid clinch slider set to 100%. can you see that happening? they would literally be stepping on each others feet yet trying there hardest to avoid getting tangled up in a clinch.

 

for simplicity i would think that on one side of the slider it would be "fight on the outside" and on the other side it would be "fight on the inside". inside being considered the prime punching distance. by having it that way it would allow for two fighters to meet in the center of the cage and slug it out. ive never seen two fighters meet in the middle of the cage and be "too" close to fight?

 

fight on the outside would have pro's and con's

 

fight on the inside would have pro's and con's.

 

Crowding a fighter is primarily a boxing thing but I predict that it will be used more and more against high level Muay Thai guys. The idea is mainly when you are the shorter fighter, getting inside the other fighters range, using the shorter arms to punish the body with the occasional upper cut. Big key difference is that the fighter doing it well should be moving wither to the left or right to avoid the clinch. Then it is a case of disengaging, circle and re-engage.

 

The difference from dirty boxing is that you cannot be over powered as easily. Think of something like Frankie Edgar stepping in on BJ Penn and disengaging.

 

As I said before, its not really viable but it is a genuine tactic in a fight.

[backelie]

honestly logically i dont see where your coming from by saying "too close"? why would that be an option? who would put there slider to go too close?

 

Too aggressive, too passive (too much counter), too many clinch attempts, too one sided striking etc are already options.

And just like some of those what's too much would depend both on your fighter's skillset, but also on the other fighter's sliders.

Eg, if the other fighter is set to very far away (too far away ) then you'll want to set your slider to "too" close to get as close as you need.

[Guest]

Crowding a fighter is primarily a boxing thing but I predict that it will be used more and more against high level Muay Thai guys. The idea is mainly when you are the shorter fighter, getting inside the other fighters range, using the shorter arms to punish the body with the occasional upper cut. Big key difference is that the fighter doing it well should be moving wither to the left or right to avoid the clinch. Then it is a case of disengaging, circle and re-engage.

 

The difference from dirty boxing is that you cannot be over powered as easily. Think of something like Frankie Edgar stepping in on BJ Penn and disengaging.

 

As I said before, its not really viable but it is a genuine tactic in a fight.

yea i can see where your coming from. at first i wasnt too clear on what you wer shooting for. im still not 100% sure that im on board with it vs my own idea but i guess thats only natural