WhisperingDeath Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Quite simply, I don't think takedowns cost enough energy. One of my fighters recently had a fight in which the opponent shot TWENTY-FOUR takedowns on my fighter. All of these takedowns were wrestling shots from standing. That is one takedown attempt every 30 seconds for the duration of our fight. I have been noticing this in other fights too, fighters who are able to just constantly shoot takedowns as the only thing they do in the entire fight and not run out of energy. To give you an idea of how crazy twenty-four takedown attemtps is. I went and tried to find the MMA match that was basically just a wrestling contest. The match I thought probobly had the most takedown attempts of any match I've ever seen is Tito Ortiz vs. Rashad Evans. In Ortiz vs. Evans there were only 20 takedown attempts between both of them COMBINED! I can't think of a match in which I've seen even the best conditioned wrestler attempt more than 12 takedown attempts without completely gassing out. By way of comparison here are the stats for Matt Hughes vs. Sean Sherk, a 25-minute fight between two wrestlers. Over the course of 25 minutes Matt Hughes attempted 7 takedowns, Sean Sherk attempted 6. 25 minutes. So please, please make takedowns expend more energy. It is completely unrealistic to watch a fighter shoot a double-leg takedown once every 30 seconds. Not even the best conditioned MMA athlete could shoot one perfect takedown evry 30 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 pffft you only faced 24 take down attempts? 15 minute fight with 36 take down attempts lol It's how my fighter got the nickname "Stuffer" though I did kick him in the leg 69 times and many more kicks and strikes as well. So from the fight I had, the ratio of strikes to take downs looks pretty good to me /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Overall I agree, additionally- I think takedowns performed consecutively should exponentially cost more energy. That also brings about the issue of conditioning applied to how quick that energy is recovered after the fact in a fight- the fighter's strategy of energy usage applied to their overall energy ability (base amount + recovery time). In noting the latter, I don't even want to think of how much coding would have to be done to incorporate that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Takedowns do already take about twice as much energy as any other move, but I'll have another look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Takedowns do already take about twice as much energy as any other move, but I'll have another look. I look at it on the same level as the submission attempts issue recently brought up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 In general I need to set aside a good week or so to have a proper look at the fight engine. I want to finish off the bookies, the stats and the trophies, then I'll move on to the fight engine and do a lot of work on it, both on actual functionality like this and also improving the color commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drm.2008 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 yeah I definitely agree, there are wayyy too many takedown attempts going on in some matches. hell in a single match I read the play by play on, thats all they did, back and forth, takedown attempt after takedown attempt. I actually quit reading it because I didn't care who won anymore, I already knew if I fought either fighter, just up my takedown def. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhisperingDeath Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Takedowns do already take about twice as much energy as any other move, but I'll have another look. If I were you, I would make a standing takedown attempts very taxing. I obviously don't know how everything relates to everything else but standing takedown single and double-leg shots are universally recognized as being by far and away the most exhausing manuevers in MMA. A second thing is that you might want to think about adding in the increased cardio drain of failing a takedown. When one successfully completes a takedown, he uses physics on his side to make his opponent's mass go to the ground. When one fails a takedown, the opposite happens. The opponent sprawls out on him, shoving his face into the ground and making his use all his strength against an impossible-to-move object. Then, the guy on bottom has to work his way out from under the mass of the guy sprawled out on top of him so as not to get his back taken. That all takes significantly more energy than completing a takedown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceTempleton Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Yeah I had a fight once where the announcer said, "Thats his third failed takedown. Thats going to take a lot out of him" like three times in the first round alone. Then bam finally he got the takedown. It was kind of frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I look at it on the same level as the submission attempts issue recently brought up. I agree wholeheartedly. I'm glad Mike realizes that both are a bit out of whack and is going to give them the proper attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redos Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I think this guy holds the record http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=2103 in a 15 min fight against my guy he shot in for 50 takedowns. But then again it also shows that it's not rewarding to just shoot in for takedowns cause you will most likley lose a decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dushira Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I did kick him in the leg 69 times Leg kicks should decrease the rate of successful take downs. When a fighter get kicked a lot in the legs he has a lot more difficulty to spring forward explosively for a take down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Leg kicks should decrease the rate of successful take downs. When a fighter get kicked a lot in the legs he has a lot more difficulty to spring forward explosively for a take down. Wasn't a single successful take down in that fight. Though that was the plan to help me keep it standing or to turn his legs into pudding so I could smash his face in. Have to work on punches with him first though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 My opinion, a stuffed takedown can be very taxing, but a successful one generally isn't as much. A take down from the clinch or standing is generally about the same amount of energy I feel I know you don't want to give away exact numbers, but just to possbily help how we feel, here is a break down of how I feel energy per move would go: A punch -1 A kick - 1.25 Initiating a clinch - 2 Being in the clinch per tick, not counting other movements - .5 Knee or elbow in a clinch - 1 Stuffing a take down - 1.5 A successful takedown - 2 A stuffed takedown - 3 Position improvement - 1 Sweep - 2 Sub attempt (in real life this varies a great deal, but just a guess) - 1.5 Like I said this is just in my mind. I, and I am sure Mike, would welcome what your opinions on this would be to help best tweak the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanfu Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 My opinion, a stuffed takedown can be very taxing, but a successful one generally isn't as much. A take down from the clinch or standing is generally about the same amount of energy I feel I know you don't want to give away exact numbers, but just to possbily help how we feel, here is a break down of how I feel energy per move would go: A punch -1 A kick - 1.25 Initiating a clinch - 2 Being in the clinch per tick, not counting other movements - .5 Knee or elbow in a clinch - 1 Stuffing a take down - 1.5 A successful takedown - 2 A stuffed takedown - 3 Position improvement - 1 Sweep - 2 Sub attempt (in real life this varies a great deal, but just a guess) - 1.5 Like I said this is just in my mind. I, and I am sure Mike, would welcome what your opinions on this would be to help best tweak the engine. if a punch is a 1 a kick is definantly a 3 and sweeps are all technique- definantly a 1 Kicks should do more damage, they should take more out, and the less technique you have toward a skill you;re using should take more out of you. For intance a BJJ Standup specialist going for a double leg. Or a wrestler just being on his back. Or a BJJ/ Boxer in the clinch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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