The game has become biased toward sprawl and brawl-fighters

[ajperok]

I briefly thought I had some breakthrough on my mastery of ground sliders today.

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=195964

 

ROUND 1

Almost 5 full minutes of ground control. No standups, lands 7/23 ground strikes.

 

then-

ROUND 2

Noffsinger is looking for a takedown here. He's shot in and has managed to get it, finishing up in Savage's half guard.

Noffsinger prevents Savage from improving his position.

Noffsinger tries to pass to full mount but Savage defends it.

Savage is trying to get back to full guard.

Savage is not content to let Noffsinger control the position.

Noffsinger throwing shots but they're hitting the canvas more than the man.

1

That's one minute gone in the round.

Noffsinger wants to control but Savage is keeping him busy.

REFEREE STANDUP

 

Then I got knocked the fuck out, LOL.

 

My guy actually has a crappy build, he was one of my first and due for retirement. But the point is-

 

Same settings, same fight- drastically different result. Good cardio, so I don't think it was a huge fatigue issue.

What I do think is there is a bit of randomization (luck) involved. Either my sliders were really good and I had shitty luck in the 2nd round, or my sliders were really shitty and I had good luck in the first round.

 

Either way, it's sort of interesting.

 

[Guest]

I briefly thought I had some breakthrough on my mastery of ground sliders today.

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=195964

 

Same settings, same fight- drastically different result. Good cardio, so I don't think it was a huge fatigue issue.

What I do think is there is a bit of randomization (luck) involved. Either my sliders were really good and I had shitty luck in the 2nd round, or my sliders were really shitty and I had good luck in the first round.

 

Either way, it's sort of interesting.

 

I think it's a combination. Of course, there'll always be some randomization, but I think your sliders might've been good in the first. Maybe your opponent has a big heart and got pissed when you whooped his ass?

[Guest]

From the second round, right before you get him in the clinch:

"Both fighters are absolutely exhausted here"

 

I'd assume that both of your energies were pretty low by the beginning of the second, with you trying to land a good amount of strikes and him trying to improve his position in the first, and that is probably why you got stood up. I mean, look at all of the action before the first minute in the first round, and how little there is in the second round in comparison.

 

But, yeah, there is a "luck" factor.

 

You also have to remember, your sliders can look good if your opponent's are even worse. I think your opponent was going highly aggressive on the feet, which was why you were able to take him down so easily at the beginning of each round, and was also probably why he was able to knock you out in the second once you guys got to your feet. I'd also say he was aggressive on the ground, which probably wasn't the greatest idea on his part considering he had the disadvantage in wrestling and is also a white belt.

[ajperok]

From the second round, right before you get him in the clinch:

"Both fighters are absolutely exhausted here"

 

I always sort of took that with a grain of salt, I guess I need to pay that more attention. The fact it said both, made me think both fighters were dropping equally as opposed to "he is gassed".

 

For the record I was 65% aggressive, 70% finish on the ground. I don't think that's an insight worth much. The biggest flaw in my (now retired) fighter was likely the Gn'P of (6) anyway.

[Sutemi]

How about this:

Referees should be introduced to the game. No, they are not introced yet... We only have "The ref"...

 

Referees should be named and everything about them should be hidden. Then players could try to find out how they referee the matches.

We could have Big John who is all image and no skill, and Herb giving early stoppages etc.

[Guest]

How about this:

Referees should be introduced to the game. No, they are not introced yet... We only have "The ref"...

 

Referees should be named and everything about them should be hidden. Then players could try to find out how they referee the matches.

We could have Big John who is all image and no skill, and Herb giving early stoppages etc.

i definately think that there are definately incompetent refs in the game already. but they only make bad decisions on the scorecards i believe. if they could have tendencies like you have stated that would be so awesome in so many ways

[Guest]

i definately think that there are definately incompetent refs in the game already. but they only make bad decisions on the scorecards i believe.

Those are judges.

 

[Italscratch]

He is my 2 cents. Judging critteria at it's best...

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=191054

 

1st round- I dominated

 

2nd round - He lands 1 punch combination, then I took him down, mixed g'n'p with sub attempts(almost brown, he is blue and 0/10 in the end...) for 4 and a half minutes. Ref stood us up, he lands another combo and I'm in knockdown (luckily I have big heart so didn't ended right there, as was case in opponents previous fights), he follows and I control him till the end.

Result - HE dominated ME that round?!? Not close- maybe he gets a nod, no nothing - he dominated with 2 landed combos while I was controling, passing guards, landing shots and trying subs...

 

3rd round - We are exausted, he knock me down again(1 combo), follows(?) and I control him for the rest of round(4 minutes). Again, he gets a nod...

 

So, 3 combos(which needs punches secondary) versus takedown off, subs, g'n'p, grapp def,you can add striking def also and he gets UNANIMOUS DECISION?!? I learned which kind of fighter to create next. As I mentioned before, screw that careful planning, just go for combos and eventually you will land 3 in whole fight and win...

 

Someone can say that I was too agressive which made me to breathe heavily in half of second round, but looking at his previous fights, I had to take it to the mat as soon as possible as guy has high KO power.

[Guest]

Knockdowns score a lot. You whaling on him and punching him was ultimately less effective than him putting you on your ass, and did less damage.

[Italscratch]

Knockdowns score a lot. You whaling on him and punching him was ultimately less effective than him putting you on your ass, and did less damage.

 

It is 10 point must system, so I reckon forcing opponent to play your game, trying to finish and poop in some g'n'p from good positions should be more relevant then knockdown in the end of the round due to 1 combo, but that's just me. As I said, I've learned the lesson.

 

Also, "my whailing" on him was not less effective, as if that fight was fought more in the stand up, I would get KOed badly, so I dictated where it was fought and avoided his primary weapon to the best of my ability (his KO hidden is badass). All in all, in 3 rounds we had about 1 and a half minute of standup...I didn't end fight via sub but niether did he via KO. Why? Because he didn't manage to make it stand and was dominated while on the ground (most of fight time) .

[Guest]

It is 10 point must system, so I reckon controling opponent in your game, trying to finish and poop in some g'n'p from good positions should be more relevant then knockdown in the end of the round due to 1 combo, but that's just me. As I said, I've learned the lesson.

 

Also, "my whailing" on him was not less effective, as if that fight was fought more in the stand up, I would get KOed badly, so I dictated where it was fought and avoided his primary weapon. All in all, in 3 rounds we had about 1 and a half minute of standup...I didn't ended fight via sub but niether did he via KO. Why? Because he didn't manage to make it stand and was dominated while on the ground(most of fight time . (nevermind his crappy follow to the ground after knockdown slider)

 

I'm talking about the way things like this are calculated in this game. A knockdown will steal the round most of the time, even if you're controlling the pace.

[Italscratch]

I'm talking about the way things like this are calculated in this game. A knockdown will steal the round most of the time, even if you're controlling the pace.

 

Didn't knew that before this fight, but learned it hard way (fast learner iRL? )

 

If I didn't have big heart hidden, it would ended sooner so I would not have material to moan about...Be careful what you wish for

[Guest]

Also, he got a nice bit of points for shutting down all your sub attempts and allowing just 2 out of 7 TDs.

[Guest]

One of my most excellent projects did get subbed the other day but that still leaves me at a grand total of 4 sub losses.

 

I was shocked by it of course, but that simply speaks to the incredible rarity of the occurance.

[Guest]

is it a possibility that subs have been stunted because yoga for so long has been such a useless training excercise?

 

this is strictly speculation, but is it safe to assume that most fighters dont have very high flexibility?

 

i would assume that most fighters do have high defensive grappling though

[Italscratch]

Also, he got a nice bit of points for shutting down all your sub attempts and allowing just 2 out of 7 TDs.

 

Can work the other way : he didn't land any single strikes and only 3 of 11 combos? And that's all he did in whole fight.

 

I landed only 2 takedowns as later I was gassed (breathing heavily in the middle of 2nd round?!?), still don't know how because I was on top of him, landing strikes and he was missing badly in standup, conditioning is at exceptional...Yes, I was aggressive but still, when someone is lying on top of you it should drain you more. Subs take lot of energy, but I supposed I could submit blue belt as I'm near brown, yet it didn't happened even while I was holding his back or from side position. Maybe physicals or secondaries but who knows...

 

I hope it doesn't sounds like whining, still learning as I said.

[RodrigoMachado]

I'm not sure that the refs are standing them up too early. I think the criteria for activity is too stringent. Ineffective actions are still actions, and I'm not sure the sim engine recognizes them as such

 

THIS is true. Missing strikes should NOT count as sucessful strikes, but should be taken into consideration!!!

[Guest]

Can work the other way : he didn't land any single strikes and only 3 of 11 combos? And that's all he did in whole fight

You get far more points from stuffing a TD than avoiding a strike.

[Guest]

THIS is true. Missing strikes should NOT count as sucessful strikes, but should be taken into consideration!!!

 

This. A ref wouldnt stand guys up just because the very active/aggressive fighter cannot land all his hits.

[Guest]

is it a possibility that subs have been stunted because yoga for so long has been such a useless training excercise?

 

this is strictly speculation, but is it safe to assume that most fighters dont have very high flexibility?

Most fighters don't have very high anything except cardio and strength and in some cases, not even that.

 

[Guest]

Most fighters don't have very high anything except cardio and strength and in some cases, not even that.

well i dont know. you may be right. but i think that its safe to assume that CT which effects agility and speed gets used a great deal more than yoga which effects flexibility

[Guest]

CT boosts flexibility too though.

[Guest]

CT boosts flexibility too though.

yea but i think its kind of a secondary gain isnt it? maybe not, im not sure. im not a numbers guy. but my point is, if everything that it takes to defend subs is easier to increase and the main stat for landing a sub is hard to increase then naturally you'll see more subs defended than landed. especially when you also consider that landing a sub is harder than defending a sub obviously anyways.

[Guest]

I have 15 fighters, one is a sub guy, nuff said

[Guest]

You have hit the nail on the head here. Those stats are not quite illustrative of the submission drought since most fighters seem to get the bulk of their real submissions in the beginning of their career. Laer on more of the "subs" are strike subs and fewer are real subs.

 

 

I would wager that at the top, there is probably about a 10-15% win by actual submission rate. Maybe less. If I get some time I will research it.

I just won a fight by someone tapping to strikes and it still counted as a tko..... so im guessing those sub wins are actually sub wins and not submissions due to strikes