Project Builds

[Guest]

nice thread

the only thing that i found suprising is you mention the MT build as your favourite , i suppose current game trends suits this build

but you gave your fighter nothing in flexability ? i have found this the slowest physical to train up and its essential for a MT fighter who kicks.

 

also how long would you train these builds before thy fight?

i would assume around 22 years old

 

I have fighters who have done over 100 CT sessions small class sizes , and all physicals exept flexability are above wonderfull ,

i havnt tried yoga since the game changes so i dont know how effective it is on fleaxability

 

anyone have any info on this please

 

Flexibility is easy because of yoga.

[Guest]

One Thing is certain, I wouldn't be throwing 110 points into conditioning and rest strength for any build, that's dumb

 

More like 110 agility and rest speed to begin, get that cardio to superb in a cheap gym, then hit the cts untill at superb++, by then my fighter has sensational agility and wonderful speed

 

And waste your fastest learning time on physicals? Hmm...

[Guest]

Skill learning is not the only thing that slows with age you know.

[Guest]

Skill learning is not the only thing that slows with age you know.

 

I thought that it's been fairly well-documented that physicals train pretty much the same at any age.

[XtremeT13]

I know that each year a fighter's learning ability slows...the difference between 18 and 19 isn't huge, but noticeable..same as with 19 to 20 and 20 to 21. From what I've understood, a fighters ability to learn doesn't really take a halt until they hit maybe 23 or 24 and for sure 25.... Basically you'll want to have the blunt of your training done when you reach 25; if you're still have to train major secondaries such as strike defense or clinch work or whatever and you're over 23, it's likely you'll never reach a suitable level.

 

Remember 1 thing with Physicals: Conditioning, Strength and Flexibility can all be trained without a coach, which means you can gain the same amount in these areas whether you're 18 or 28. Factor in the fact that you do gain in all areas slightly when you train secondaries.

 

Remember that these builds we speak of are "PROJECT" Builds and are not intended to fight until they are 22 or older...Maybe 21 depending on how impatient the manager is. The typical builds that are used for fighters who'll fight early on are thrown out the window.

 

For instance: 1 of my project builds is geared toward being more of a boxer type: however I put no points into his boxing or MT primary, rather I put them all in Wrestling and BJJ. Then I put all his points into Clinch Work, Grappling Defense, and Take Down Defense. For his physicals I put 109 into conditioning and the rest into balance. All his training has been with coaches; Starting with Punch Technique, then a little of clinch and now strike defense. Depending on how that training goes I'll do CT's when he turns like 20 or 21...maybe 22 if I feel more training is needed in secondaries. If he begins to slow down to much for my liking with CT's then I'll train yogo, strength and cardio to get those 3 physicals higher.

 

It's a project build; It is all about your plan, vision and direction.... It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or feels...If you think that his build is going good and the way you planned, then that is all that matters. You'll find out when you start fighting him if it was the correct decision.

[marioufc420]

I have a question about training projects. Is it better to train Physicals (CT) or Secondaries at the start?

[Guest]

I have a question about training projects. Is it better to train Physicals (CT) or Secondaries at the start?

IMO it is best to start on seconaries first then move onto physicals/primaries because secondary training provides better gains to physicals/primaries than CT does to primaries/secondaries.

[Goatacre]

Remember 1 thing with Physicals: Conditioning, Strength and Flexibility can all be trained without a coach, which means you can gain the same amount in these areas whether you're 18 or 28. Factor in the fact that you do gain in all areas slightly when you train secondaries.

 

Can anyone confirm whether this is true or not? My understanding was that:

 

Learning speed (as a hidden) has no impact on training physicals (even in CT sessions per CW's recent post)

The speed at which physicals increase with training decreases as a fighter ages (so the quoted post would be incorrect - the quality of your physical training will not be the same if you are 18 or 28)

[Guest]

Very good post this, very informative with good arguments argued and defended.

 

But I agree with Xtreme, you gotta do it your way.

 

Its like riding a bike I may push off with right pedal and some one else might push off with the left, doesn't mean one of us is doing it wrong but its the way we prefer.

[XtremeT13]

well, I don't have any 28 year olds: so I can only speak of what I have which is between 18 and 25... as of this moment, I've not noticed a difference in gains when training physicals (Strength-weight training, Conditioning-cardio and Flexibility-yoga)... But, please if someone can confirm this, let me know, as I might change my approach with a couple project fighters!

[Guest]

As prepping for exams blows I'll write up a little something:

 

So you want to build a f*cking project?!

 

A project fighter is a fighter who trains for a considerable amount of time before fighting. The purpose of this is to create a highly competitive fighter with one or several strong points while ironing out the big gaps in their game.

 

There are many differing philosophies on building projects, as to which primaries, learning speed, stats, physicals, hiddens, time of debut, and goals one should set for oneself. I'll fraction this mini-guide into several parts to structure it properly.

 

Age

 

All project fighters should start at 18. Learning speed is on a downward slope, and their best year of learning is at 18. This works in two ways: First off, it lets you debut earlier. Second, it lets your fighter's career last for longer.

 

Build

 

In general, you should avoid BJJ or boxing builds, as these primaries gain pretty fast from doing secondary training compared to wrestling\Muay Thai. The reason for this is that they govern less secondaries, which makes every secondary cover a bigger percentage of the actual primary. However, I have one exception.

 

Wonderful boxing, abysmal wrestling, useless in the rest. Maximize kicks, clinch and knees.

 

This may see ass-backwards at first, but the purpose is to make a competitive fighter fast. It was originally my brainchild because of my access to a very good circuit and sparring gym. You start out by sparring Muay Thai to superb or so while doing circuits. This should give you somewhat decent physicals to build on later. Following this, you bump punches and striking defense to wonderful, which should leave you at about sensational boxing and remarkable MT. Takedown Defense and Defensive Grappling to wonderful rounds out the build and puts you at sensational\remarkable\competent or respectable\blue with decent physicals and 7 wonderful secondaries. After that you can either keep building secondaries or go back to sparring and circuits to cover your weaknesses. I personally think this is a pretty good idea, though.

 

Example: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=127566

 

 

Wonderful Muay Thai, abysmal wrestling. Max kicks, clinch and knees\elbows.

 

Bog-standard Muay Thai build. Add defensive stats and punches for very high primaries pretty easily.

 

Example: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=129261

 

Wonderful wrestling, abysmal MT. Max takedowns, clinch, and either TDD or Ground N Pound.

 

pretty bog-standard wrestler. Add whatever you want and enjoy your functional fighter.

 

Example: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=109798

 

In general, if you get an idea, don't hesitate to try it out! Projects are to have fun with, not to min\max everything

 

 

Hiddens

 

The one most people consider a lock in any scenario is your chin, as it improves ability to take punishment from strikes, and most likely also recovery from being "rocked". This one should be a no-brainer in most case.

 

Intelligence covers your fighter's ability to adapt on the fly, killer instinct, and ability to do well on the ground (to a degree). Few people pick it, which makes it the most underrated hidden in the game in my opinion. I haven't picked it yet to my memory as I've either underrated it myself, or have lacked "space" to do it. I may start doing it though, as it keeps impressing me.

 

Confidence covers your fighter's confidence in himself (duh), which makes him naturally more aggressive and willing to exchange. This also keeps him from shattering like a Ming vase if he's losing, and lets you come back later in the fight to score an upset. It also affects morale loss when you lose. Another very underrated hidden.

 

Injuries is more or less useless unless you want to fight very often, which isn't really fruitful anyways. If injuries are made dangerous or detreminal down the line I can see this becoming a huge one. However, as it is right now, they only affect fight performance.

 

Cuts would probably get picked much more if other hiddens weren't more useful. It's not a bad hidden, but it's not one I'd pick personally.

 

Popularity is nice for the money boost, but doesn't affect fight performance to my knowledge. Don't bother.

 

Experience is the only hidden that actually can be built up over time. Not worth bothering with either.

 

KO Power is another of the big ones. It covers how hard you hit and your ability to hurt ("rock") and finish your opponent. KO power is brilliant and kinda overpowered in my opinion, as fighters with low power can't even finish absolute bums, no matter how skilled they are.

 

Heart is toughness, ability to fight through being hurt, and how hard you are to finish. In addition, fighters with big hearts get more dangerous when you hurt them, and can suddenly start kicking your ass badly after you drop them. My favorite hidden personally.

 

I can't pick hiddens for you, but this should give you a general idea.

 

Learning speed

 

As a rule of thumb you should aim to pop from useless-- to abysmal-- in one 1on1 session in your given secondary for it to be a fast learner. An useless++ can be a few decimals from popping, though, and checking the actual point gain by using greasemonkey scripts or checking the source code is worth the hassle for this in my opinion.

 

Physicals

 

I believe there are two ways of building your physicals: 10 conditioning and 110 conditioning.

 

10 conditioning is the most economical build, as you can reach 110 conditioning in about 30 sessions with a good cardio supplement. You can also stop around proficient and circuit the remaining stretch. In this case I'd put 110 in a physical of choice excluding strength and speed, as these cover up most hiddens once they hit remarkable. Then I'd dump the remaining in speed, as speed doesn't gain by doing secondary training.

 

The only reason I'm suggesting starting with 110 conditioning is that cardio training is the devil and this lets you squeeze out a few more secondary sessions of your best training years.

 

 

Time of debut

 

There are many different philosophies on this. Some hold them off until they deem them "ready", which may very well be after 9 real life months. I believe these people are wrong, as your fighter's hiddens will be completely obscured until you've fought one or a few times. Hiddens are absolutely vital for a fighter's success and can determine whether or not he'll actually work. For that reason I propose that you take a Quick Fight or find a contract in a low-end organization to test your hiddens versus comparable fighters. Deducting hiddens from previous fights can't be hard, so I'll use a fighter of mine who currently has 2 fights under his belt (not really a project though) for reference.

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=121120

 

Juan Corrida was started with the intent of fighting early and often. For this purpose I checked heart, chin and fast learners as hiddens. My reason for doing this was simple: I wanted to maximize survival, and snagging the boost to learning was vital to keep him somewhat competitive stat-wise. I took the unorthodox approach and trained him in a circuits- and sparring gym run by a friend because I couldn't bother building him near any of the private gyms I had (my alliance will be opening one up in Rio soon enough, which he will get in on).

 

Early on I tested his learning by sparring. Now, I'm no expert in gauging learning from sparring, but his gains were pretty decent. An alliance mate of mine had a fighter in the same weight class, and we decided to gamble for a Quick Fight versus each other. When we got it, we agreed to go 100% See How It Goes to test hidden experience and intelligence in addition to the other hiddens. This leads us to his first fight:

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=256344

 

As neither of them had any fights below their belt, it wasn't possible for them to get a message in the introduction (more about this in fight 2), so I immediately looked to the tale of the tape. As you can clearly see, one of them got a "Granite Chin" message while Juan got "Solid Chin". This means that both fighters have high chin ratings, but the Granite Chin is clearly higher. There are to things above "solid chin" in the hidden hierarchy: Granite Chin and very high power. In other words, this rules out top tier power. Similarly, fighters who get "intelligent", "self-confident" or something else have a chin lower than solid and no top-tier power. However, they may have one point below the "benchmark", so to speak, and still be worth keeping.

 

After that I read the fight, and based on the performance and tactics on 100% See How It Goes (leaving all other sliders in the middle) it became clear that Juan possessed either a) high intelligence, high experience or c) both, as he performed admirably and finally submitted his opponent. I chalk the reason he never scored a takedown down to having inferior physicals (abysmals vs woefuls or so, which is actually a pretty big difference considering game mechanics).

 

The third hidden this fight revealed to me was the "popular fighter" one, as Juan gained a pretty good amount of popularity, even for a fight with such a low rating.

 

I kept him in the gym for a while, sparring my way up to purple belt and getting physicals to proficient+ or higher. I then got my second fight:

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=275844

 

In this fight, several things stick themselves out to cover Juan's hiddens. First off, notice the text over the ToTT: "Juan Corrida is the more experienced fighter, so let's see if that makes a difference tonight" <-- as both fighters are 1-0, this means Juan's experience hidden is (comparatively) higher than his opponent. As his opponent got no experience message earlier in his career, this is still an unknown quantity. As Mike has confirmed to me that the "experience" hidden can't be capped out before fighting a lot, I'm still assuming intelligence is reasonably high.

 

As for actual hiddens' results, Juan scored a TKO on the ground from side control (a position that doesn't give the same damage bonus as, say, mount) in 22 ground strikes, which isn't really a lot. He also had no injury coming out of the fight, which means his injury hidden is fairly decent. His popularity also bumped much higher than his hype, and he gained a lot of rank. He also took a few head kicks "that looked like they stung" without faltering or cutting, but my opponent has unknown power and probably bad kicks, so this proves little about his confidence, bleeding and heart.

 

Based on two fights who lasted for about 15 minutes in total I was in other words able to gauge power, chin, intelligence\experience, injury and popularity. It's hard to say anything about confidence yet, but a loss makes that pretty simple by looking at morale loss.

 

I think that's pretty much it. If you have any other questions, my manager ID is 3393.

[Guest]

Yes I would spend a full game year going for the physicals first, I know by my own mistake that training a older fighter physicals is a lot more time consuming, so I get them over and done with on the off, plus if its a striker based fighter, getting to sensational agility from useless would be a complete longhaul, cut a few corners and use physical points in something apart from the easiest stat that pops in the game, even with the changes, a few weeks of cardio sees you at wonderful, guess its a matter of opinion but I don't like putting points in the easy gain stats

[jory]

I can't say much about this game but I believe age does affect physicals even with conditioning. I recently purchased extra fighter slots and started an 18 and a 25 on the same day, both with minimum conditioning(10). 24 sessions for the 18 has him at 11- and 23 sessions for the 25 has him at 9++. They used the same supplements, only trained 90%+ energy, and trained in the same gym. So unless there are significant differences in the 90-100% energy range for skill gains, it's pretty clear there's some effect of age on physicals at least for individual training. I actually have another fighter at 18 with 21 sessions in cardio who has already hit 11 as well. I also have another 25 that I started the same day as the previously mentioned 25 who is at 9+ after the same number of sessions. A little odd.

 

I can't however answer whether it's a different story with CTs which is probably the method of choice for richer managers.

 

edit: grammar

[LanceTempleton]

One Thing is certain, I wouldn't be throwing 110 points into conditioning and rest strength for any build, that's dumb

 

More like 110 agility and rest speed to begin, get that cardio to superb in a cheap gym, then hit the cts untill at superb++, by then my fighter has sensational agility and wonderful speed

 

Old style thinking.

[Guest]

Maybe for you but cts are proberbly the most boring to train and would take for ever to get them where I want unless I used my method

 

After the ct I mix one session of sparring a day with a coach session matching the sparring I'm doing, ill usually keep this going untill I'm happy with it, usually to wonderfull level, and repeat with another primary ect.

 

it just seems the most effective way for me, since you say its the old way, next time I make a project Ill go for a personally unorthodox approach and try your way, that is if you let me in on your method? Maybe I'm the one not using points correctly? Let me see.

[Eveas]

I make conditioning around 90 then even everything else out except for flexibility which I keep about 20 points under the other stats and balance which I keep 10 points lower. CT raises every stat evenly, and yoga can raise the 20 points from flex and 10 from balance pretty quick. 90 is still enough conditioning to do 10-11 sessions of training per week. I do 10 to be safe.

[Guest]

How about primary and secondary training? Spar and a coach each day or one before the other? Ill try it with my next project

 

I'm guessing you have tried my method in the past?

[Guest]

Need more Suggestions!!!

[Eveas]

One thing I noticed is sparring ups the physicals faster so you need next to no CT training at the end of your project's life. But you get less out of the secondaries than you would get from the primaries doing coach training.

[Guest]

I always start my projects with wonderful MT, Wonderful Clinchwork, elbows and knees and thats becouse while doing punches and striking d to sensational you will be around exceptional-- boxing and around the same for MT

 

Here is my latest project. This is his current stats without any sparring.

 

Boxing Exceptional(8)+

Muay Thai Exceptional(11)+

 

 

Punches Elite(6)--

Kicks Wonderful(0)--

Elbows Wonderful(21)--

Knees Wonderful(21)--

Clinchwork Wonderful(21)--

Striking Defense Sensational(15)--

[Eveas]

Elbows and knees are too easy to pop. I like starting with things that require double or triple elite coaches so I don't have to pay more later.

[Heri]

_{noobs must read this}

[Heri]

up

[Guest]

There's a lot of outdated info in here, but the parts I wrote about hiddens and reading fights still hold up. Good thread.