Space Shuttle Launch from a Plane

[MMATycoon]

Sure, so for the next 900 million let's we focus our research current on problems like decreasing our ecological footprint, energy efficiency and health. The technology gained from such research will help us with space colonization (if possible at all) more than it would vice versa. Just look at what NASA accomplishes with a budget of 15 billion and compare that to what several universities like Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Columbia, Berkeley and Cambridge accomplish with a budget of around 1 billion. The discovery or invention of DNA sequencing, insuline, defibrillators, pacemakers, kidney transplantation, artificial skin, the laser, nuclear magnetic resonance, embriotic stem cells or even Google just to name a few. The technology provided by such universities to NASA greatly exceeds the technology NASA provides to us.

All I did was answer a different, totally unrelated question of yours, asking for a definitive doomsday that will happen. The fact our sun will fry the earth in a billion years isn't justifaction for anything and I've never claimed it was.

 

Look, in general I don't doubt that NASA are run inefficiently in certain aspects but where we differ is that I think space exploration is a fundamentally important PART of the development of our species. Yes other things are incredibly imporant too; some are more important AND cost less. However, to not have done / not do space exploration at all is really dumb. Yeah let's do it as efficiently as possible but most importantly, let's do it.

[Guest]

well as you put it

 

 

Ignoring human beings is really dumb. For how easy it would be to help end hunger and homelessness it seems pretty stupid not to do it. It doesn't matter how it gets done, the only thing that matters is it gets done. All I know is there is a leaky faucet that leaks enough money to well, do such a thing.

[GripGambler]

End hunger and homelessness? Won't happen, the best you can do is work to lower the percentages. The more you put into it, the more the system will be abused. It won't matter if you divert every bit of government funding to it. This is why you have to find a balance. Tax money given directly to people for food and housing isn't the proper way to go about it either, it would have to be in the form of infrastructure changes. It just isn't the governments place to tax for charity IMO.

[Guest]

End hunger and homelessness? Won't happen, the best you can do is work to lower the percentages. The more you put into it, the more the system will be abused. It won't matter if you divert every bit of government funding to it. This is why you have to find a balance. Tax money given directly to people for food and housing isn't the proper way to go about it either, it would have to be in the form of infrastructure changes. It just isn't the governments place to tax for charity IMO.

 

 

here you go making assumptions again

 

 

seriously, this is going nowhere. If you think that everyone is not deserving of a place to call home, no matter what that is, or a full belly, then I can't say anything that will change your mind. Go to space and have fun my friend, I will be back here trying to help figure out how we can stop throwing away enough food to feed the hungry. Call me a sucker for the little guy, but I don't see a bum, I see a person that needs someone's help. A smile is worth more than money, a meal is worth more than money, hell when you are piss poor money seems like it is worth more than money.

 

I guess everyone can't see the same way, but tell me something. When you look at someone on the street asking for change, what do you really see? To me the sign reads two ways, first they need some fucking money, that is obvious. Subconsciously though, I think that people have used that word because what they really want is CHANGE. They want all people to respect all people. When you are at the bottom of your life and people walk by you and don't even care, can you imagine how that feels? Who knows why they are there at your feet, all we know is they are. I try to regularly help someone well and above what I can because I would blow it on stupid shit. To them stupid shit is something they never get. I don't know, I must have a soft heart. I cry more than I like to admit, and I really feel for anyone who seems to be in any sort of bad situation. When kids are involved my heart breaks. I was a poor kid, I woke up to Santa not knowing we moved. That shit destroys a kid. When hope is lost it is really hard to get beck, I mean really fucking hard.

 

I'm a firm believer in making the world a better place through your own actions. if everyone did that than these people everyone avoids would be a part of society again. I'm not a christian, but they have a few good stories of God acting as a bum, seeing how people treated those less fortunate then thy are. That has always stuck in my mind. We are all equals in the true light of things, why does any one of us feel better than someone else? Because we can do or have something more than someone does that not mean that they can't have or do something that we can't? Hell if you have or find humility in helping someone less fortunate, isn't that something that they gave you? Life is a two way street, it sure as fuck isn't all about you, or me.

 

if any one of you actually needed help, not in this game, but real life, I would try and help. games are games, but life is not a game. I take this shit seriously, there isn't a single person alive that doesn't deserve to be. We don't all belong in mansions but we all do belong here.

[Guest]

I have only read some of the first page here. But it seems people are arguing for a solution or homelessness without knowing anything behind the situation. I have a friend who worked at the local city mission. Most of the people who stay there are almost beyond help. They have mental issues and their entire way of thinking makes it impossible for them to be "normal". They have no ambition, they dont want to work, they want everything given to them. They even bitch about the free stuff they are given. Often the food and a place to sleep isnt enough. They dont follow the rules. Well over half of them are hooked on drugs or alcohol. Many choose to sleep on the streets and get high or drunk rather than be sober and have a place to sleep. Many have to be forced to take a bath. What can you do to help someone like this? There is no reason to stop the human race's natural instincts to explore and spread out because someone feels sorry for someone who is just as content in their life as we are in ours. There has to be a balance in helping the poor and carring on with life. Its unrealistic and unfair for someone to say "how can you spend time playing games and waste money on entertainment when you could be helping the poor". No one can go through life being miserable and being ashamed for everything they do for themselves. Each person has to have fun and live thier life to keep their sanity while finding a healthy balance of helping the poor. Same with the Space program. Its would be counter productive as society to go against our instincts and be a society controlled by guilt. Where does it stop? Do we stop pro sports? After all how can we spend millions on stadiums and athletes when there are people in need? Why should we pave the streets to give us a comfortable ride in out cars when there is people in need?

[Guest]

I have only read some of the first page here. But it seems people are arguing for a solution or homelessness without knowing anything behind the situation. I have a friend who worked at the local city mission. Most of the people who stay there are almost beyond help. They have mental issues and their entire way of thinking makes it impossible for them to be "normal". They have no ambition, they dont want to work, they want everything given to them. They even bitch about the free stuff they are given. Often the food and a place to sleep isnt enough. They dont follow the rules. Well over half of them are hooked on drugs or alcohol. Many choose to sleep on the streets and get high or drunk rather than be sober and have a place to sleep. Many have to be forced to take a bath. What can you do to help someone like this? There is no reason to stop the human race's natural instincts to explore and spread out because someone feels sorry for someone who is just as content in their life as we are in ours. There has to be a balance in helping the poor and carring on with life. Its unrealistic and unfair for someone to say "how can you spend time playing games and waste money on entertainment when you could be helping the poor". No one can go through life being miserable and being ashamed for everything they do for themselves. Each person has to have fun and live thier life to keep their sanity while finding a healthy balance of helping the poor. Same with the Space program. Its would be counter productive as society to go against our instincts and be a society controlled by guilt. Where does it stop? Do we stop pro sports? After all how can we spend millions on stadiums and athletes when there are people in need? Why should we pave the streets to give us a comfortable ride in out cars when there is people in need?

 

 

the sad thing is this is all because of the said system. The system got along with just handing out for EVER. This got everyone hooked on that. The system was meant to help you while you got back on your feet, not take your feet away. There is a lot of work to be done, but I tell you what, if we can't fix the problems we have here, good fucking luck in any life you think there will be in the future. If the top 1% of the richest people gave 10% of their wealth the world would be a completely different place. Bill Gates is a man who seems to understand this. Whole populations of people are dying or at risk to things that are curable. AIDS is basically curable now, people are living full productive lives with it, yet millions die in Africa. Clean water is becoming one of the scarcest thing on Earth. People drink out of puddles I yell at my dog to get away from. Somehow the human race forgot that every other species works as a group. We have become so infatuated with ourselves that we are all that matters. When was the last time you helped someone you didn't know? Can you even remember?

[GripGambler]

I like how you keep taking the most extreme viewpoint you can think of and labeling me with it. How would you feel if I called your views communist because you feel that everyone is equal and we should spread the wealth? It would be a baseless gross exaggeration of the statements you have made, right? I have never once argued what a person deserves to have, or how I feel towards homeless people, or that I believe some are superior to others. My statements have been how I feel that tax dollars should be spent by the government on the issues in this thread, and the type of balance that those dollars should be spent towards. I am merely stating that there are cons to huge biases of charitable spending, just as there are cons to the same spending in science and that because of this, we should create a proper balance of spending within the community. That said, I don't feel that the government of a country should play robin hood directly. I'm all for increasing spending for education community upkeep, and other infrastructure that will benefit everyone, even the lowest of the classes, but I don't feel that money should be taken from one citizen and given directly to another via cash, food, or other property. In my opinion, it should be up to the citizens to choose for themselves if, how much, and where to give to charity, and up to the people who have the strongest charitable feelings to lead their respective movements towards gaining funds to distribute.

 

Also, don't be so quick to count out the government on how much they contribute to charity, nor big business regardless of their reasonings. Many businesses and rich people donate large amounts of money to charitable organizations for PR and tax deduction reasons. Not only is the business giving this money, but tax deductions due to this are lost opportunity cost by the government, so the program allowing tax deductions based on charitable donations is equivalent to the government donating every bit of charitable tax deduction money to charity. The best statistic that I could find on this is a 2008 IRS statistic showing that the combined deduction for individuals (not counting businesses at all) that year was $172.9 billion. This means that the government basically paid (opportunity cost, based on a 30% tax rate) $51.87 billion to charity in individual persons charitable deductions alone.

[Guest]

wow, see this is where serious discussion gets us people. I decided to volunteer with a group that helps people with Aspergers children and young adults. I was thinking of how fucked up everything was becoming and preaching how everyone needed to do something, so I took my own advice. I'm going to help them write grant proposals and there is a 7 year old boy that needs a mentor. I just want to thank you all. Without hearing others opinions, we live in a bubble.

[MMATycoon]

Good on ya DIDM

[Guest]

@MMATycoon

 

I never said not to do any space exploration. There are NASA projects I support like the EOS and the Hubble telescope (if only it costed the $400 million it should have instead of the $4 billion it ended up costing). I just think we are too eager to run before we can walk. There's no purpose in sending people to the moon or to mars (goal for 2030) at this point aside from proving which nation has the biggest penis. The IIS is another very costly but unnecessary project. There have to be better reasons to pay for such projects aside from them being very cool. There's no hurry in space exploration, but there is for other problems and if we focus on them it will eventually pay off for space exploration as well.

 

End hunger and homelessness? Won't happen, the best you can do is work to lower the percentages.

You don't believe we are able to end homelessness and hunger, but you see travelling to another constellation a few lightyears away to set up base as a very real possibilty. I hope you can see how ridiculous that is.

 

Just because it can't be done with current technology doesn't mean that we shouldn't be trying to get there, even if it does take 1000 years.

 

"there's a good chance we'll never find how".. just a completely merit-less statement. My assumptions aren't contrary to these statements, rather my assumption is that we will never find out if we don't try, therefore nothing is necessary to justify.

 

We are already able to end hunger and homelessness if wanted to, we're just not prepared to pay the price for it. We're nowhere close to setting up base on another planet, not even on a nearby planet and even if we were able to, it wouldn't serve us any use at all.

[TheRedDude]

Old thread is old.

 

Manned shuttles are gone oh well, humans never really spent much time in ''space'' anyway, all those shuttles just go within like 450km's of earth to the space station, for a kid who grew up with Star Wars/Star trek, that's kangaroo piss.

 

450km? away, i don't care how little gravity there is, or how ''spacey'' it is, billions of dollars for 450km in any direction is a waste of money

 

We didn't even bother to learn our own ocean properly before we turned our eyes to the skies, although this cancellation makes me sad, i much preferred the Hubble telescope lol.

 

R&D can be done in any industry, if it wasn't for the Nazi's, there wouldn't be any space R&D/Propaganda to show the world in the first place, lets just wait for another tyrant to get his shit together, whoop his arse and then proceed to collect all their research, it worked before :/