UFC 129: St-Pierre vs Shields

[Guest]

Really enjoyable event overall. Awesome finish by Machida, imo much more beautiful than Andersons. Tons of heart from Hominick and he exposed a weakness in Aldo that will probably give his future challengers a lot of hope. GSP is getting so careful it will soon actually hurt his chances of winning. Had he gone after Shields in that fight it would probably not have lasted long enough for him to get his eye hurt. When you let fights last 5 rounds every time you expose yourself to a lot of opportunity for freak things to happen.

[Guest]

Those rumors have been true all these years, I guess all the gsp lovers are starting to accept the fact gsp is boring and can't finish fights. I was watching the fight in a bar and all the gsp lovers were hating on him because he suck.

It's not that he can't.

 

It's that he's so awesome he chooses not to.

[Guest]

DeathZero: GSP fights in the UFC, which is an MMA promotion

 

DeathZero: so he is indeed a Mixed Martial Artist.

 

I agree

 

DeathZero: For some reason you used that term as a prerogative towards him.

I don't know why you think that as i just repeat GSP's words.

 

DeathZero: Yes, he doesn't have the most exciting style.

 

Indeed, that's what I said. He is boring. That's my point.

 

DeathZero: new "fighters" should not look up to Georges St-Pierre.

 

I didn't say that, don't put words in my mouth. I said that I hope he doesn't set a trend for future fighters because he's boring. You agree that he's boring so I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

If you agree with what I say than I wonder why you act like a baby and call me a cut and dry Sherdogger. I don't have a Sherdog account and I don't like street fighting. There's no reason to be mad at me if you agree with everything I say.

 

 

@SnowMan

You still don't explain why we can't say that he's boring. It's a sport, but if everybody fought like him I wouldn't watch it. It's already proven that you can be a good fighter/sportsman/mixed martial artist and be exciting as well.

[Guest]

And awesome to see Matyushenko get the finish.

[Guest]

Get the fuck over it that he doesn't go out there to put on a show. He's a great mixed-martial-artist. Hate all you like that he doesn't finish fights and what-not, even though I think that's a retarded argument. Respect him as a martial artist and an athlete. He doesn't "suck" as Mack said...far from it.

[Guest]

To begin with, I'm a GSP fan, so my opinion might be biased somehow, but I've thought about it for a while. To make it short, it was a boring fight where I thought Jake Shield pretty much fought to survive 5 rounds, while GSP looked like to start doing the same, after he started complain about his eye to his corner. How ever, Jake Shield didn't step it up and it was very boring.

 

When I went looking for other opinions a lot of people were completely mad at GSP for that poor fight, no finish again, etc...That made me start to think: Am I totally biased towards GSP to the point where I overrate the point that he couldn't see with one eye for a part of the fight ? While I was searching I found this interesting blog:

 

UFC 129: A unique perspecitve on St-Pierre's performance

 

It's an interesting viewpoint of the situation which kind of comforted me in my opinion over the fight. I don't want to change your opinion on him, I don't want to prove you wrong since you have your opinion on what he did and I got mine and that's fine. How ever, I'm still wondering that IF he didn't get an eye injury, how would the rest of the fight go ? We will never know, but I think that we would be talking of that fight differently today.

 

Anyway I just wanted to share this little something that I found somehow valuable. If someone that does fight think that I am wrong, then I would be very interested in your opinion.

[Guest]

Get the fuck over it that he doesn't go out there to put on a show. He's a great mixed-martial-artist. Hate all you like that he doesn't finish fights and what-not, even though I think that's a retarded argument. Respect him as a martial artist and an athlete. He doesn't "suck" as Mack said...far from it.

Get the fuck over it that we say that he's boring. Nobody says he's not a great mixed martial artist. He doesn't need to be boring to be a good mixed martial artist. And being a good athlete doesn't warrant respect in any way. GSP sucks!

[Guest]

Get the fuck over it that he doesn't go out there to put on a show. He's a great mixed-martial-artist. Hate all you like that he doesn't finish fights and what-not, even though I think that's a retarded argument. Respect him as a martial artist and an athlete. He doesn't "suck" as Mack said...far from it.

Not everyone can respect the fine art of strategy during a competition.

 

Most of the casuals grow irate when a knockout does not occur.

 

OMG! WHER IS DA KNOKOUT!?!? THS FIGT SUKS!

[Guest]

Not everyone can respect the fine art of strategy during a competition.

 

Most of the casuals grow irate when a knockout does not occur.

 

OMG! WHER IS DA KNOKOUT!?!? THS FIGT SUKS!

 

its not about that. im a BIG shields fan and even BIGGER machida fan. both considered boring. waeva. i enjoy watching them fight. i accept its gonna be boring but its their STYLE that makes it so. machida even made efforts to address that. shields does try to finish, always advancing position and putting on a jits clinic. i would be more accepting of gsp if all his nuthuggers would accept the same thing. he's a boring fighter not due to his style but due to his reluctance to take chances and go for a finish. that's my problem.

[Guest]

but it seems like its his job to make things boring. ok, shields is boring. what of hardy? or kos? theres always an excuse with gsp apologists. now its his eye, the biggest highlight came after the 'eye injury'. accept that hes the most boring champion on the planet. just accept it

 

Antonio McKee would have something to say about this! Ok where do I begin my post about GSP? First off yes I'm a huge GSP fan. Do I think last night was his best performance? Obviously not. Did he push through an injury that most definitely put him at a distinct disadvantage due to depth perception issues, peripheral vision problems etc etc? Yes he surely did. Any athlete that has suffered an eye injury knows just how devastating one can be to your performance, and fighting just might be the most intense sport to lose any combination of the things an eye injury causes. I will admit I was surprised when the head kick dropped Shields and GSP failed to jump on him to attempt to finish him. I can only assume that thoughts of Hendo's inability to finish Jake in a very similar scenario could have something to do with this, but it could also have simply been out of respect for Jakes grappling abilities. We can Monday morning Blackbelt about how he should be finishing more opponents, and other Champs in the UFC are finishing a higher percentage of opponents, but I don't like to get drawn into such a war of words. Trying to compare any two fighters is something that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. We all know that at anytime anyone competing in this sport can come out on top. GSP himself has admitted that the Serra KO still haunts him, and he will do whatever it takes to not allow that situation to happen again. Which has resulted in him fighting as some will call it more safely, and others will deem it fighting the smarter fight with an intelligent game plan. Shields stand up is most definitely his weak point, and I really did expect to see GSP exploit it more in this fight, especially due to the fact that Jake was so willing to stand and trade. However he has proven before to be able to take a hard shot and recover amazingly well. I don't think anyone would argue against Hendo's striking power, and when I saw Jake tumble to the mat in the first of their fight I almost changed channels as I screamed holy balls it's all over. However Jake recovered, and was able to secure the win(even though he showed terrible power in his hands during his "ground and pound"). As for his other opponents :

 

Hardy was made to seem to be this amazing KO artist leading into their fight even though the only (T)KO he had in the UFC was against Rory Markham who just so happened to have a collapsed lung when they fought. So GSP and his camp came up with the game plan to get to the ground and look for submissions. Now we all know about the infamous armbar, and kimura attempts that didn't end that fight. I'm at a loss for how Hardy got out of those holds without some kind of injury. So in this instance I give credit where credit is due to the challenger.

 

Koscheck is as we all know a well rounded fighter that has been improving ever fight, and had been working his boxing over his last few fights. So many thought GSP would look to take him to the ground to lessen his chances of Josh scoring a KO on the feet. Turns out GSP surprised everyone, and put on a really impressive boxing display in my opinion. I also give Koscheck credit in this fight for pushing through his broken orbital bone, and to keep fighting even though he was clearly in a lot of pain and would have suffered the same eye injury problems as mentioned above.

 

I can keep breaking down his opponents, but I think that will prove futile at this point. I would just like to point out one last thing of the challengers he has faced since winning the WW Title. Let's start with the third Hughes fight :

 

GSP vs. Hughes. GSP SUB. Hughes been finished in all 8 of his losses. However only three men have stopped him in the UFC. GSP twice, BJ Penn twice, and Thiago Alves once. Hughes 45-8

 

GSP vs. Serra - GSP (T)KO. Serra has only been finished twice in his career, and this was the second time. Serra 11-7

 

GSP vs. Fitch - GSP UD. Fitch has only been finished twice in his career. Once in his debut, and a second time in 2002. Fitch 23-3-1-1(NC)

 

GSP vs. Penn - GSP (T)KO. Penns corner threw in the towel between the 4th and 5th. Penn has only been finished twice in his career. This was one of them, and Mat Hughes was the other in 2006. Penn 16-7-2

 

GSP vs. Alves. GSP UD. Alves has been finished four times over his career. The last time prior to this fight was a (T)KO loss to Jon Fitch in 2006. Alves 18-7

 

GSP vs. Hardy. GSP UD. Hardy has been finished four times over his career. The last time was against David Baron in 2005. Hardy 23-9-1(NC)

 

GSP. vs. Koscheck. GSP UD. Koscheck has only been finished twice in his career. Koscheck 15-5

 

GSP vs. Shields. GSP UD. Shields has only been finished once in his career. It was in his third fight in 2000. He entered the cage last night riding a 15 fight win streak that had seen him claim the ROTC WW Title, the EliteXC WW Title, and the SF MW Title. He had also finished eight of those opponents. Shields 26-5-1

 

It should also be mentioned that all of these fighters were riding good winning streaks leading up to their title fights, and that they were all ranked Top 5 in the WW division. So I feel like fact that GSP isn't finishing fighters that are clearly some of the best fighters on the planet doesn't tell the whole story of the man. Call him safe, boring, or whatever you want. Just don't forget to call him the main thing he is, and that's a winner.

[Guest]

its not about that. im a BIG shields fan and even BIGGER machida fan. both considered boring. waeva. i enjoy watching them fight. i accept its gonna be boring but its their STYLE that makes it so. machida even made efforts to address that. shields does try to finish, always advancing position and putting on a jits clinic. i would be more accepting of gsp if all his nuthuggers would accept the same thing. he's a boring fighter not due to his style but due to his reluctance to take chances and go for a finish. that's my problem.

 

I'm no expert and I might misremember fights, but in those fights where GSP didn't finish, how many of his opponents really tried all the way through to defeat GSP ? The way I remember they try for some time and they finally just try to survive the last remaining round.

 

Also, since you are a big Shields fan (I've only seen 3 fights of him, the one with GSP included), what did he do yesterday to win the fight ? I've seen him punch, but I never thought he would get a win only with his punches while I was watching the fight. I don't know that much about MMA and I'm really interested in what you have to say on this.

[Guest]

Did anyone else catch the crowd chanting "Fuck you Diaz" during prelims????

[Guest]

its not about that. im a BIG shields fan and even BIGGER machida fan. both considered boring. waeva. i enjoy watching them fight. i accept its gonna be boring but its their STYLE that makes it so. machida even made efforts to address that. shields does try to finish, always advancing position and putting on a jits clinic. i would be more accepting of gsp if all his nuthuggers would accept the same thing. he's a boring fighter not due to his style but due to his reluctance to take chances and go for a finish. that's my problem.

But that is his style. He picks apart their weakness, and utilizes his own skills in a way that allows him to dominate his opponents without allowing too much risk on his side. No one has ever been able to do that before, it's honestly very amazing to watch. It's not for everyone, but if you understand the intricacies of the style than you can appreciate it much more.

 

Comparing him to Anderson Silva is what many people do, but that just isn't fair. The Spider is easily the most dangerous striker of all time...and he just dominates people playing to his own strengths. St-Pierre on the other hand must focus on strategy rather than simply overpowering people. He's a fighter for strategists to follow, and his wins are quite amazing judging by how good the Welterweight division is.

 

And nuthugger is a Sherdog term, not allowed outside the boundaries of that demonic realm.

[Guest]

but if you understand the intricacies of the style than you can appreciate it much more.

Yeah that's it, you're just a lot more intelligent than everybody else and everybody who doesn't agree with your genius insight is a sherdog type.

[Guest]

Yeah that's it, you're just a lot more intelligent than everybody else and everybody who doesn't agree with your genius insight is a sherdog type.

Not more intelligent, just keen on different things.

 

I just Sherdog people to amuse myself.

[Guest]

I'm no expert and I might misremember fights, but in those fights where GSP didn't finish, how many of his opponents really tried all the way through to defeat GSP ? The way I remember they try for some time and they finally just try to survive the last remaining round.

 

Also, since you are a big Shields fan (I've only seen 3 fights of him, the one with GSP included), what did he do yesterday to win the fight ? I've seen him punch, but I never thought he would get a win only with his punches while I was watching the fight. I don't know that much about MMA and I'm really interested in what you have to say on this.

 

i was disappointed in shields' performance. he didnt do nearly enough to try and get the fight to the ground. i thought he would even try to pull guard. he showed none of the doggedness and bullishness in chasing the td that he has in other fights. he's still one of my faves but he didnt do enough in my opinion. im not gonna make excuses for him.

 

my favourite thing in this world is manchester united football club. im a massive fan. if we play like shit, m the FIRST to admit to anyone. even if we win. im not about making excuses for the hell of it or just because i loke someone/something. anderson silva was one of my faves. i didnt let tha cloud my judgement over his last couple of fights (before the last 2 of course). so is BJ and same thing. like i said, my problem with gsp is i know he can do so much more. everytime he fights safe i feel shortchanged. hes not a peoples champ, hes just fighting for his ego. "immortality", he calls it.

[Guest]

But that is his style. He picks apart their weakness, and utilizes his own skills in a way that allows him to dominate his opponents without allowing too much risk on his side. No one has ever been able to do that before, it's honestly very amazing to watch. It's not for everyone, but if you understand the intricacies of the style than you can appreciate it much more.

 

Comparing him to Anderson Silva is what many people do, but that just isn't fair. The Spider is easily the most dangerous striker of all time...and he just dominates people playing to his own strengths. St-Pierre on the other hand must focus on strategy rather than simply overpowering people. He's a fighter for strategists to follow, and his wins are quite amazing judging by how good the Welterweight division is.

 

And nuthugger is a Sherdog term, not allowed outside the boundaries of that demonic realm.

 

its not his style. pre-serra and post-serra gsp's are different. even he acknowledges that he has the serra loss on his mind and his mindset is different. dont deify him, dawg. hes just a man. hes got faults, homie.

[Guest]

its not his style. pre-serra and post-serra gsp's are different. even he acknowledges that he has the serra loss on his mind and his mindset is different. dont deify him, dawg. hes just a man. hes got faults, homie.

Exactly. His style changed after the Serra fight.

 

He learned from his mistakes. Being the smart man I'm sure he is, he changed to give him a better chance of winning.

[Guest]

its not his style. pre-serra and post-serra gsp's are different. even he acknowledges that he has the serra loss on his mind and his mindset is different. dont deify him, dawg. hes just a man. hes got faults, homie.

 

Nick, is that you?!

[Guest]

There was no reason for either guy to fight the way they did. Shields had nothing to lose and his one dimensional overrated ass couldnt muster more than 6 take down attempts? GSP needs to sack up or give up. Now i could really careless if does or doesnt finish someone. But its his lack of effort that has pissed me off in many of his recent fights. So Jake is tough i give GSP that but he couldn't put more strikes together? He couldn't throw more than 1 punch at a time? In my honest opinion he has always lacked toughness. When you put hands on him he loses focus. Very few people are good enough to do it but when they do it gets him out of his game. The start of the first Penn fight for example. He lost his killer instinct when he lost to Serra. Before he fought like he has something to prove. Not he has gone the route of Tim Sylvia and just trying to keep his lame ass belt. I have said for a while i think GSP is declining and i think he believes it also seeing how he is now back peddling from the Silva fight he talked about so often. The thing that bothers me most about his conservative fighting is he really has nothing to lose. He is in a position to where he can go into a fight and let it all hang out and if he does get caught by a Serra type KO or Submission he would get an automatic rematch anyway and then he can fight in puss mode. I guess thats what you get when you come from a Traditional Martial Art background. How about actually fighting in the fight. That is a novel idea!

[Guest]

GSP's eye = Anderson Silva's rib circa 2010

 

In the huggers' eyes, it's like this.

 

"GSP was blind, literally, in both eyes, and in front of 70,000 people in the Pontiac Silverdome, he fed off of all the little Pierre-Maniacs, and he picked up Jake Shields, and slammed him down on the canvas brother. He couldn't see a thing. He was like Daredevil, relying on his sense of smell, hearing, and touch to defeat the ultra powerful Jake Shields."

 

"Anderson Silva's rib was so badly broken that it was literally impaling his heart during the Chael Sonnen fight. Anderson Silva could not breathe for the entire fight, watch, he didn't take a single breath. If you look closely, you can see the rib out of place as Chael is punching him."

 

It was a bad fight, they happen all the time. GSP, don't get me wrong, I'm a huge huge fan, but he is scared of a repeat of the Serra fight. He does not have the killer instinct, he will absolutely not take a chance at going for the finish if he's not 1000% sure it's there. It does not make him a bad fighter. If that is GSP on a bad night, that's still pretty damn good.

 

Shields impressed me quite a bit too.

[Guest]

Gsp suck and will forever suck. At least the gsp fan can finally come to terms with that. he got busted up by a guy who can't knock himself out and gsp is a great fighter. F**king far from it. Once again he was asked if he would fight Anderson Silva and he basically confirmed it like a good old politician would " hit them with the I am not saying I would not fight the guy but I not saying I will fight him either". quoting myself. F**k gsp. he is a waste of talent.

[Guest]

Gsp suck and will forever suck. At least the gsp fan can finally come to terms with that. he got busted up by a guy who can't knock himself out and gsp is a great fighter. F**king far from it. Once again he was asked if he would fight Anderson Silva and he basically confirmed it like a good old politician would " hit them with the I am not saying I would not fight the guy but I not saying I will fight him either". quoting myself. F**k gsp. he is a waste of talent.

 

I disagree.

[Guest]

" It does not make him a bad fighter. If that is GSP on a bad night, that's still pretty damn good."

Not to disrespect you or anyhting, but was you high on PCP or you just like the few gsp fans who won't come to the term that GSP (Garbage Suck P4p trash fighter is no good)

[Guest]

I disagree.

everyone has an opinion. I'm just stating mine. Whether you agree with it or not, I'll still say what I mean. I still believe GSP suck and will forever suck. Anderson Silva. the destroyer of all fools including GSP.