Guest Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Im not denying that bisping can fight, but the reason why people keep harping on the hendo thing was because how much of a douche he was acting like on the show and when hendo knocked him the **** out, it was immensely satisfying for us americans to see that, essentially, what goes around really does come around. Where on the show did he disrespect Hendo? There was only 1 confrontation between Bisping and Hendo in the whole season (the time changing thing in which I agree, Bisping did act like a dick, but it was that one time)! Bisping talked some smack to the American team (correctly, he said they were going to get their asses kicked and that's exactly what happened), but the only time he did anything really "douchey" on that season was part of the time change row thing when he squirted water at DeMarques Johnson (who was a total cocksucker in his own right!) He gave Dan plenty of respect and they were pretty civil to eachother on the show compared to the way coaches are on most seasons. Disliking Bisping as a person from the word go would be all good (like not liking him from TUF season 3 onwards) but I maintain there's an element of sour grapes about it when people constantly refer back to TUF season 9 where he was pretty much sound other than a couple of individual instances (certainly no worse than any coach in any of the other seasons). If Bisping gets hated on for TUF season 9 then surely Rampage must be the most hated man in America for what a total moron he acted in TUF season 10! Its also worth mentioning that regardless of how he comes off on the show, he's a very good coach, unlike a lot of fighters who try to coach on TUF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Where on the show did he disrespect Hendo? There was only 1 confrontation between Bisping and Hendo in the whole season (the time changing thing in which I agree, Bisping did act like a dick, but it was that one time)! Bisping talked some smack to the American team (correctly, he said they were going to get their asses kicked and that's exactly what happened), but the only time he did anything really "douchey" on that season was part of the time change row thing when he squirted water at DeMarques Johnson (who was a total cocksucker in his own right!) He gave Dan plenty of respect and they were pretty civil to eachother on the show compared to the way coaches are on most seasons. Disliking Bisping as a person from the word go would be all good (like not liking him from TUF season 3 onwards) but I maintain there's an element of sour grapes about it when people constantly refer back to TUF season 9 where he was pretty much sound other than a couple of individual instances (certainly no worse than any coach in any of the other seasons). If Bisping gets hated on for TUF season 9 then surely Rampage must be the most hated man in America for what a total moron he acted in TUF season 10! Its also worth mentioning that regardless of how he comes off on the show, he's a very good coach, unlike a lot of fighters who try to coach on TUF! To be fair I also hate Rampage. Bisping comes off as a terrible coach. Especially when compared to how Miller is doing. His cornering is even worse. What kind of coach tells a fighter to "Kick him in the balls"? Miller impressed the hell out of me with his clear commands when cornering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2011 Report Share Posted November 8, 2011 Bisping IS a good coach on the show, but he IS a bad cornerman this series it seems. Miller on the other hand seems to get his fighters to listen well to his advice so its definite props to Mayhem for this one He still grates the fuck out of me though and so hope he gets knocked out at the finale the smug tosser Lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Bisping IS a good coach on the show, but he IS a bad cornerman this series it seems. Miller on the other hand seems to get his fighters to listen well to his advice so its definite props to Mayhem for this one He still grates the fuck out of me though and so hope he gets knocked out at the finale the smug tosser Lmao Bisping seems more of a bully than a coach. His fighters complain about how he roughs them up, and his fighters end up trying to injure each other while he does nothing to stop it. Giving one of his fighters a black eye right before his fight was stupid as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Yeah I agree its stupid but I agree with his thinking of go hard or go home. Think its a British mentality to sparring as they all did that on TUF 9 and I always sparred happily full throttle May be why a lot of guys don't turn up fight time from here though, but I always liked to spar and train going at least 90% and so did the guys I trained with. To be fair to Bisping, he did say they were out of order once he found out they were trying to knock the other guy out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Fair enough Eveas, because Rampage came off like a total cocksucker on TUF 10 (and whenever else he speaks in public!) People seem to have took great notice of the dickish things Bisping said on TUF 9 but seem to have forgotten how he and his team coached circles around Dan Henderson (who didn't do a bad job but got nothing like the same out of his fighters that Bisping did). Bisping did the exact same thing on TUF 9 as he has this season, the difference being his entire team were used to that style of coaching with it being a UK coach with a UK team and several of the UK guys coming from the Rough House camp (notorious for producing the gamest of fighters), where as this time he's got a bit of a mix bag, some guys like to work hard and push themselves, others like to be wrapped in cotton wool and cuddled. I dont get the bully reference at all...well I do, because thats what Mayhem said in a previous episode, but its unsubstantiated with regards to how he coaches. He doesn't try to intimidate his guys at all, he called that one whiner out when he criticized the coaches for his loss, and rightly so. The guy came in with low cardio, Bisping coaches on the presumption that if you want to be a pro fighter and have made it that far your cardio should allow you to train properly and work for as long as everyone else, that guys attitude sucked. In terms of cornering Bisping gets the basics right (hands tight, control the centre, act first etc) but tends to say "no no no no" without telling his guy what he actually should be doing instead which is a bad habbit. I think both Bisping and Mayhem have done a very good job of coaching, Mayhem in my opinion is considerably better at judging fighters than Bisping, Bisping won the toss but made some absolutely awful picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Kicker Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 dude a mime could corner better than bisping. all he does is scream "punch him" or "get up". that's pretty much it. and i don't think bisping's coaching really had anything to do with the outcome of the usa vs uk season. the brit fighters were just better than the american fighters that were there. the only american on that show that was even half decent was damarques johnson, and he's not even that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Fair enough Eveas, because Rampage came off like a total cocksucker on TUF 10 (and whenever else he speaks in public!) People seem to have took great notice of the dickish things Bisping said on TUF 9 but seem to have forgotten how he and his team coached circles around Dan Henderson (who didn't do a bad job but got nothing like the same out of his fighters that Bisping did). Bisping did the exact same thing on TUF 9 as he has this season, the difference being his entire team were used to that style of coaching with it being a UK coach with a UK team and several of the UK guys coming from the Rough House camp (notorious for producing the gamest of fighters), where as this time he's got a bit of a mix bag, some guys like to work hard and push themselves, others like to be wrapped in cotton wool and cuddled. I dont get the bully reference at all...well I do, because thats what Mayhem said in a previous episode, but its unsubstantiated with regards to how he coaches. He doesn't try to intimidate his guys at all, he called that one whiner out when he criticized the coaches for his loss, and rightly so. The guy came in with low cardio, Bisping coaches on the presumption that if you want to be a pro fighter and have made it that far your cardio should allow you to train properly and work for as long as everyone else, that guys attitude sucked. In terms of cornering Bisping gets the basics right (hands tight, control the centre, act first etc) but tends to say "no no no no" without telling his guy what he actually should be doing instead which is a bad habbit. I think both Bisping and Mayhem have done a very good job of coaching, Mayhem in my opinion is considerably better at judging fighters than Bisping, Bisping won the toss but made some absolutely awful picks. TUF 9 was rigged for him to win from the beginning so they could get more British talent into the UFC. It wasn't his superior coaching. It was him being handed superior fighters and Hendo being given bottom feeders. You can only work with what you got, and that season they did not get to pick their teams like normally happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Kicker Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 good fight last night. bermudez almost got KO'd like 4 times before he got the choke, although he landed a couple big shots of his own that actually looked close to dropping akira. and bisping getting the sweaty jock in his face was awesome, as was akira getting a 'taste' of his own medicine. but seriously bisping, your retaliation to that is spraying them with silly string? really? lol and after the mariachi band i guess it's safe to say that the donkeys are gonna be mayhem's retaliation. looking forward to that lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 TUF 9 was rigged for him to win from the beginning so they could get more British talent into the UFC. It wasn't his superior coaching. It was him being handed superior fighters and Hendo being given bottom feeders. You can only work with what you got, and that season they did not get to pick their teams like normally happens. Great conspiracy theory, but tremendously devoid in any factual accuracy. There were poor fighters on both sides, infact most of the fighters on both sides were poor (hense why only a couple of them are still around, a gaping whole in your "the only reason the show happened was to get UK fighters into the UFC" argument). The difference was the game planning of the coaches and work ethic of the fighters, not skill or experience. The American fighters were actually significantly more experienced than the UK fighters infact. The only genuinely high level fighter on the entire show was Ross Pearson, the rest were average/poor on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think the winner of "fight of the season" has been crowned with this weeks episode! What a war, Akira did way better than I expected him too and if Diego can get through his semi final (which most people expect) I think he knocks Bermudez out. I thought the fire extinguisher prank was a bit predictable and unoriginal but the involvment of the band was absolutely hilarious! Good fun! Probably the most entertaining episode of the season so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Tom.... I have to say that in all the seasons of TUF there hasn't been one like season 9 where there has been no talent whatsoever and no top tier wrestlers from America. I'm a Brit, and a Bisping fan, but it is suspicious to say the least that not one talented MMA fighter from America wanted to fight against Britain that year Not into conspiracy theorum but it was clear the fighters selected from the usa were very low caliber and no stand-out wrestlers were considered to make sure it wasn't a walkover for one team due to the lack of wrestling in the UK (which is our Achilles heel as we only wrestle once we start to train MMA as a rule) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Tom.... I have to say that in all the seasons of TUF there hasn't been one like season 9 where there has been no talent whatsoever and no top tier wrestlers from America. I'm a Brit, and a Bisping fan, but it is suspicious to say the least that not one talented MMA fighter from America wanted to fight against Britain that year Not into conspiracy theorum but it was clear the fighters selected from the usa were very low caliber and no stand-out wrestlers were considered to make sure it wasn't a walkover for one team due to the lack of wrestling in the UK (which is our Achilles heel as we only wrestle once we start to train MMA as a rule) The season was made up of guys with simelar skill sets and ability, there was definately a air of trying to bring in a British audience to TUF with the season, but it was nothing like the intentional missmatch Eveas is making out from where I'm sitting. Like I said the only guy that stood out as head and shoulders above the competition was Pearson, the rest were coin tosses and down to tactics and essentially who trained the hardest and wanted it more. I guess I'd like to qualify the point that if you're saying the Americans were badly represented I'd respond by saying Dean Amasinger, Dave Faulkner, Nick Osipczak and Jeff Lawson were hardly the creme dela creme of the British MMA scene either! I can see that it was a poor season in terms of talent but the fighters were all very simelar levels from what I could see. I cant think of too many out and out wrestlers since Season 8 to be honest. Shamar Bailey from last season comes to mind, thats about it. Guys like Brookins from Season 12 and Ring from Season 11 were more Jiu Jitsu and rounded guys respectively, and Season 10 was just a total abomination in terms of fighters ability (much worse than Season 9 or any other IMO). I wouldn't accuse many fighters from that season of being athletes, let alone martial artists! I guess Jon Madsen was an out and out wrestler that season. Still, I think the story is likely Dana wanting exciting fights and wrestlers flat out NEVER producing them for the reason he's been weening out the 1 dimensional wrestlers since Efrain Escudero snooze-fested his way to winning Season 8. As for wrestling in the UK, doesn't rough sex count!? If so most UK males start wrestling in their early/mid teens, all be it in inter-gender activity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Kicker Posted November 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 i'm glad you edited that post, because otherwise i was gonna have to go all grammar nazi on you about writing "all be it" instead of "albeit" *edit* now you edited it back lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Ok, you win this round, but beware, if I ever catch you saying "I could care less" or "aluminum" I shall retaliate with fury! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Face Kicker Posted November 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Ok, you win this round, but beware, if I ever catch you saying "I could care less" or "aluminum" I shall retaliate with fury! don't worry, i know it's "couldn't" care less. but i'm an american, so of course i spell/pronounce it as "aluminum". but if you're gonna get on me about that, then don't let me hear you say "glacier" out loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 don't worry, i know it's "couldn't" care less. but i'm an american, so of course i spell/pronounce it as "aluminum". but if you're gonna get on me about that, then don't let me hear you say "glacier" out loud I can let "aluminum" slide aslong you dont say "I could care less" and you dont presume that everyone from England lives in, or very close to London! For such a small country we seem to have loads of local dialects over here, each one more disgusting and bordering on illiteracy than the last! Haha! Going back to this season of TUF, Chael Sonnen actually made an amusing tweet about it. Something to the effect of "this season of TUF will be the first time both coaches will need to be subtitled despite English being their first language!" He wasn't far wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Great conspiracy theory, but tremendously devoid in any factual accuracy. There were poor fighters on both sides, infact most of the fighters on both sides were poor (hense why only a couple of them are still around, a gaping whole in your "the only reason the show happened was to get UK fighters into the UFC" argument). The difference was the game planning of the coaches and work ethic of the fighters, not skill or experience. The American fighters were actually significantly more experienced than the UK fighters infact. The only genuinely high level fighter on the entire show was Ross Pearson, the rest were average/poor on both sides. You didn't read properly if you think that disproves my post. It just restates my point. British fighters in general suck due to having no ground game. Wrestlers flood mma for a reason. Only way to make Hendo have even weaker fighters. More specifically weaker wrestling so as not to exploit the British weakness. You didn't find it odd the American american didn't have the most common American style properly represented? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Ok, you win this round, but beware, if I ever catch you saying "I could care less" or "aluminum" I shall retaliate with fury! I don't get the aluminium thing, but I could care less drives me crazy. It isn't even a typo anymore. Idiots actually say it out loud that way. Aaaaaaaaaarrrghhh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 You didn't read properly if you think that disproves my post. It just restates my point. British fighters in general suck due to having no ground game. Wrestlers flood mma for a reason. Only way to make Hendo have even weaker fighters. More specifically weaker wrestling so as not to exploit the British weakness. You didn't find it odd the American american didn't have the most common American style properly represented? No, because Dana has made a point of avoiding flooding TUF shows with wrestlers since TUF 9, not only for TUF 9 to give British guys an advantage. The talentpool in Season 10 and 11 was no better than in Season 9 too in my opinion. British fighters generally lack wrestling, not a ground game in total. I'd point you in the direction of Paul Sass and Terry Etim aswell as Bisping if you think British fighters flat out lack skills on the ground. Infact of the higher level British MMA fighters only Dan Hardy and Paul Daley have really been exposed as badly lacking a ground game. Even James Wilks, possibly the worst TUF winner of all time (maybe 2nd worst after Mac Danzig) has a solid submission game when the fight hits the ground. I agree, when people say "I could care less" I genuinely get quite angry! Haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 They made it into the ufc by being the exception willing to train something other than boxing. Not the rule. Every season except 9 had at least a few guys with strong wrestling. It is a free high school sport. Even if not someones main skill they still have trained it in most cases. Last night a wrestlers put Akira to sleep on tuf. They absolutely find their way into tuf. I do hate that phrase with a passion. :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 They made it into the UFC by being very good fighters. Wrestling has become less of a neccesity in MMA in my opinion. A great jiu jitsu guy beats a great wrestler on the ground 9 times out of 10 (Maia/Sonnen for example). MMA is its own sport now, you cant just be a wrestler or a muay thai fighter or a submissions guy. The best British fighters are just as well rounded as the masses from North America and Brazil, though each of those places leans toward different bases its all about being well rounded and everyone knows that now and have done for a while IMO. Britain simply doesn't have a truly elite fighter yet, though there are a few who have the potential to get there. Etim has been the top boy in the UK for a while. I'm not basing that at all on the Faaloloto fight, Faaloloto was a tomato can, but Etim has elite potential IMO. Very young, naturally athletic, great technique on the feet, physically strong and a strong submission game. Massive potential. Anyway, back on topic, let me try it this way; are you telling me that if you put Andre Winner and Ross Pearson into the Lightweight section in TUF season 8 or TUF season 12 they would have been dealt with easilly by the competition on those shows? Pearson wins both of those seasons as comfortably as he did in season 9 IMO, and Winner wouldn't have done badly either. The Welterweights across the board were diabolical on Season 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 They made it into the UFC by being very good fighters. Wrestling has become less of a neccesity in MMA in my opinion. A great jiu jitsu guy beats a great wrestler on the ground 9 times out of 10 (Maia/Sonnen for example). MMA is its own sport now, you cant just be a wrestler or a muay thai fighter or a submissions guy. The best British fighters are just as well rounded as the masses from North America and Brazil, though each of those places leans toward different bases its all about being well rounded and everyone knows that now and have done for a while IMO. Britain simply doesn't have a truly elite fighter yet, though there are a few who have the potential to get there. Etim has been the top boy in the UK for a while. I'm not basing that at all on the Faaloloto fight, Faaloloto was a tomato can, but Etim has elite potential IMO. Very young, naturally athletic, great technique on the feet, physically strong and a strong submission game. Massive potential. Anyway, back on topic, let me try it this way; are you telling me that if you put Andre Winner and Ross Pearson into the Lightweight section in TUF season 8 or TUF season 12 they would have been dealt with easilly by the competition on those shows? Pearson wins both of those seasons as comfortably as he did in season 9 IMO, and Winner wouldn't have done badly either. The Welterweights across the board were diabolical on Season 9. Actually, to the contrary wrestlers tend to beat the BJJ guys more often than not. Maia vs Sonnen is an exception and not the rule. Sonnen has a glaring weakness for sure, but all the other guys like Fitch, Kos, Rashad, ect... do extremely well against BJJ. I agree fighters need to be more well rounded. The problem is British fighters are not well rounded in general. They tend think boxing is the only way to fight and look down on any other style similar as to how Sonnen looks down on BJJ. Bisping was like that at one time but eventually decided to train his ground game. That is why he is one of their better fighters even though that is still only mid-tier in the MW division. Most Brits I have seen openly dis wrestling as being for pussies. That is not the way you become a well rounded fighter. Especially when wrestling is the main skill used in dictating where a fight takes place even if your primary skills are something else. Etim does have potential, but he is one guy and still hasn't lived up to his potential yet. Winner would have been destroyed against the season 8 guys easily. Pearson would have had a better shot, but he would not have won the whole show. Winner is so one dimensional it isn't funny. Season 9 they went out and found the worst possible Americans they could find. No one with a takedown for sure. Then they put them against a bunch of Brits with a weakness for takedowns. It is pretty clear why this was the only season that has ever happened.Even if they only ended up getting mid-tier guys at best out of it they are at least British mid-tier guys who can do the free shows in London. That was exactly what Dana wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Tom.... I have to say that in all the seasons of TUF there hasn't been one like season 9 where there has been no talent whatsoever and no top tier wrestlers from America. I'm a Brit, and a Bisping fan, but it is suspicious to say the least that not one talented MMA fighter from America wanted to fight against Britain that year Not into conspiracy theorum but it was clear the fighters selected from the usa were very low caliber and no stand-out wrestlers were considered to make sure it wasn't a walkover for one team due to the lack of wrestling in the UK (which is our Achilles heel as we only wrestle once we start to train MMA as a rule) This is exactly what I have been saying. All I add is that it was on purpose and not by accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 It really annoys me when Hardy talks smack about wrestling, if you think wrestlers suck learn how to defend a takedown! Liddell and Dos Santos should be the ideal role models for strikers who only want to strike. Exceptional takedown defence and if they do go down they know what to do to get up before the wrestler can get leverage. There were a couple of solid guys on season 12 but I cant think of a Lightweight on Season 8 that would make it to a decision against Pearson, let alone beat him! Escudero, Browning and Nover were the top dogs at 155 in that season right? I think Pearson eats all of them for breakfast and I'd give Winner a good shot at Browning at least, who was comically over rated by the coaches and fans alike. I think Nam Phan and Brookins on Season 12 would have been interesting match ups for Pearson but in summary, Pearson is as legit a TUF winner as anyone before or since and he certainly wasn't given a free ride into the UFC. I think Demarques Johnson and James Wilks deserve to be in the UFC but as little more than guys to make up the numbers on prelim cards. Out of interest, you think that TUF 9 was set up to make UK fighters look good, do you also think that TUF 10 was set up with so many absolutely god awful Heavyweights in order to have Kimbo Slice win the show and get into the UFC and it backfired in that Kimbo sucked next to even dreadful fighters? I think there is a little more merit to that argument because unlike the UK thing, the Kimbo thing would have actually had huge financial benefit for the UFC. As it is the UFC is in danger of losing the UK market given their screwing around the fans with switching TV broadcasting for different events coupled with the horribly cheap events they put on over here the last 2 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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