Guest Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 i can understand where you come from but then again if everyone starts doing this we're left with 1-2 fights per card. it's the same reason why people who've gone 0-6 so far still stuck it through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Are you going to provide an update on the remaining groups, Shiv? Unless I've missed it, you've only written anything up for groups A and B, so it would be really useful to see how all the other groups stand and the potential results going into the final week. On another point, can I put forward a motion to vote for the fights to take place every 2 weeks in the next round? I appreciate that this will lengthen the competition quite a bit, but I hope that it would actually benefit the tournament and help to maintain people's interest more. Otherwise to fight 9 consecutive weeks with the injury situations that are commonly occurring then it could turn out to be even more frustrating than this first round. I realise that other managers may not agree with me, so perhaps a vote on this would be a good idea? Fights being 2 weeks apart should prevent the ridiculous fights where an uninjured fighter faces someone with a 9 day injury, without completely eradicating the potential for a fighter that gets injured easily having to fight with a small injury (should be maximum of a 2 day injury). In the interests of openess and transparency, I'll declare that my fighter is reasonably injury prone, but that I have both gained and lost through this in the opening round. Both losses have come when I have had a fight versus an injured fighter (I think I had a 4 day and a 6 day injury, respectively), I have won one fight whilst uninjured against an injured opponent (in 14 seconds...), I've won one fight with a 2 day injury against an uninjured opponent, and have obviously also fought uninjured versus uninjured in the opening fight and in one other fight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Are you going to provide an update on the remaining groups, Shiv? Unless I've missed it, you've only written anything up for groups A and B, so it would be really useful to see how all the other groups stand and the potential results going into the final week. On another point, can I put forward a motion to vote for the fights to take place every 2 weeks in the next round? I appreciate that this will lengthen the competition quite a bit, but I hope that it would actually benefit the tournament and help to maintain people's interest more. Otherwise to fight 9 consecutive weeks with the injury situations that are commonly occurring then it could turn out to be even more frustrating than this first round. I realise that other managers may not agree with me, so perhaps a vote on this would be a good idea? Fights being 2 weeks apart should prevent the ridiculous fights where an uninjured fighter faces someone with a 9 day injury, without completely eradicating the potential for a fighter that gets injured easily having to fight with a small injury (should be maximum of a 2 day injury). In the interests of openess and transparency, I'll declare that my fighter is reasonably injury prone, but that I have both gained and lost through this in the opening round. Both losses have come when I have had a fight versus an injured fighter (I think I had a 4 day and a 6 day injury, respectively), I have won one fight whilst uninjured against an injured opponent (in 14 seconds...), I've won one fight with a 2 day injury against an uninjured opponent, and have obviously also fought uninjured versus uninjured in the opening fight and in one other fight. Planning to write it up tonight actually. Anyway, as for 2 weeks between fights... I wouldn't have minded had someone had this suggestion a few weeks back but if you can see, we've already booked out the arenas for the next round of fights and it wouldn't be possible to change that now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I would have minded, can't go changing the rules half way through the rounds just because some of you can't hack it, maybe some of you needed to click the injury and cuts hidden, not everyone can be as amazing as Mitch, sometimes people just need to accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 That's a shame, but I can understand that view. In all likelihood I will allow my second round place go to the next person in the group in that case (as I am fairly sure I'll qualify from my group). I'm just not a fan of the lack of control that fightly weekly results in, despite having ticked the resistance to injuries hidden on creation (I've got far from the worst roll on it, but still not great) and the seemingly random nature of how injuries accumulate. Sadly I'm too much of a control freak to put up with it for another 9 week stint The tournament has been kind of fun, but very frustrating that typically the result of each fight is just dependent on the injury situation of each fighter involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I checked the injury hidden and still got 16, 13 and 16 days from 3 quick ko wins. I really like the league and think it's a great idea, it's just really unfortunate that injuries work the way they do. It's not only that my guy being injured or not is out of my control but good fighters with bad injury issues affect the rest of the league too. The three poor bastards that ran into my guy while uninjured lasted like 3 min combined while other opponents have gotten and probably will get free wins against him. Doesn't really mean they are better despite the points scored. I'm not saying I want the format changed mid tourny, just pointing out that it's certainly not as easy as not checking the injury hidden to avoid the issues and that it doesn't only affect the injured fighters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I just wanted to get up on my high horse to be honest with you as I was feeling rather smug for some reason, I didn't even bother ticking the injury hidden or cuts, probably just got fortunate. But my real point is that injuries were always going to play into this thing, the same with cuts, I thought that was one of the big ideas about it being the survival of the fittest over a long time. Everyone signed up knowing the rules about injuries etc well ahead of time, it's not like Shiv changed it to one week fights the day before the tournament started. If injuries and cuts were never meant to play a part then we really needed the fights more than 16 days apart. Again I understand it's a lot easier for me to say all of this when I'm unbeaten, admittedly it probably hasn't been much fun for guys that have lost a few or who have suffered massive injuries. But then are tournaments ever particularly that fun for the guys that are losing? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I checked the injury hidden and still got 16, 13 and 16 days from 3 quick ko wins. I really like the league and think it's a great idea, it's just really unfortunate that injuries work the way they do. It's not only that my guy being injured or not is out of my control but good fighters with bad injury issues affect the rest of the league too. The three poor bastards that ran into my guy while uninjured lasted like 3 min combined while other opponents have gotten and probably will get free wins against him. Doesn't really mean they are better despite the points scored. I'm not saying I want the format changed mid tourny, just pointing out that it's certainly not as easy as not checking the injury hidden to avoid the issues and that it doesn't only affect the injured fighters. Absolutely agree, especially regarding the knock-on impact that it has on other fighters as well. I actually really like the topsy-turvy nature of the league, where very few fighters are able to dominate throughout, but just not the means by which this occurs. Ultimately the outcome of the tournament is being decided, disproportionately, by the score that each fighter got on their injury hidden (the cuts are much, much less of a problem), rather than by fighter skill/sliders. Unfortunately the results, therefore, just lack balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I get survival of the fittest and it's a fun concept that would have felt much more reasonable if injuries made any sense at all. It just seems to make no sense what kind of fights actually produce injuries. Taking a beating is fine but for god's sake don't punch the other guy hard. I tested my guy and he got 4 days from taking a light beating, I figured if I can just finish quick I'm fine. I managed to do that and it seems it actually made it much worse. I just don't know what I can do to avoid injuries when finishing quick obviously is a bad move. I guess love tapping or making a wrestler and lnp or something. Based on what I've seen if my guy had just landed one single punch in his test fight instead of getting taken down and beaten up immediately I would have actually gotten way worse injuries which is just weird. That said I never had any intentions to leave as I knew what I signed up for and if I somehow move on I will take my losses (and beat up whoever is unfortunate enough to run into me while uninjured). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I just wanted to get up on my high horse to be honest with you as I was feeling rather smug for some reason, I didn't even bother ticking the injury hidden or cuts, probably just got fortunate. But my real point is that injuries were always going to play into this thing, the same with cuts, I thought that was one of the big ideas about it being the survival of the fittest over a long time. Everyone signed up knowing the rules about injuries etc well ahead of time, it's not like Shiv changed it to one week fights the day before the tournament started. If injuries and cuts were never meant to play a part then we really needed the fights more than 16 days apart. Again I understand it's a lot easier for me to say all of this when I'm unbeaten, admittedly it probably hasn't been much fun for guys that have lost a few or who have suffered massive injuries. But then are tournaments ever particularly that fun for the guys that are losing? Probably not. I'm fairly sure no one blames you for feeling that way, Dirk, I'm certain everyone else would also be feeling pretty happy with things if they were unbeaten (especially if they had been as brave/stupid not to tick the injuries hidden box). A lot will depend on people's perspective on things. From my point of view, even taking two losses on my record has been a heavy price to pay for entering the tournament, and it has cost me a fair bit in my attempts at moving up the rankings, and certainly don't therefore want to go through to the next round where the chances of facing uninjured/lesser injured opponents will increase significantly (due to the survival of the fittest idea), and hence there is a very good chance it would result in another who knows how many losses (likely a minimum of 4, even with really good injury rolls from the fights), and a 5-4 record in the second round will never be good enough to get through. I like to enter things to win (or, at least, to feel like I have a chance of winning). The way that fighting weekly has panned out, it is evident that there is little control on how things progress and it is just random how the injuries fall and so the results are typically effectively pre-determined. Given that, I'd rather allow someone else to have my spot who might find that interesting, and instead I'll focus on fights where what I choose to do (e.g. sliders) will have a genuine impact on the fight that takes place. Like I say, it has been kind of fun, and I have provided myself with some laughs by posting in German, if nothing else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxwig Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Looks pretty iffy for Wacky chan to move onto the next round. 1) Freddie Finkelstein needs to beat Fredrick Nordh, which could be easy as Freddie is a wrestler and Fred has a 16d injury. 2) Joey Karate needs to beat Ed Reed in more than R1 1:43. A crap shoot since he'll still be riding in with a 1d or 2d injury. Karate's granite chin vs Reed's hands. Or looks like possibly if only one of those outcomes happens and Chan wins, he could take the #2 spot for the bracket to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Looks pretty iffy for Wacky chan to move onto the next round. 1) Freddie Finkelstein needs to beat Fredrick Nordh, which could be easy as Freddie is a wrestler and Fred has a 16d injury. 2) Joey Karate needs to beat Ed Reed in more than R1 1:43. A crap shoot since he'll still be riding in with a 1d or 2d injury. Karate's granite chin vs Reed's hands. Or looks like possibly if only one of those outcomes happens and Chan wins, he could take the #2 spot for the bracket to move on. Group H was crazy, wasn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 If someone posts the links of any of the other upcoming cards I'm happy to add them to the bookies so you guys can place bets. It's a bit tricky finding the other groups that I'm not in, not even sure what the orgs are called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxwig Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 Group H was crazy, wasn't it. I beat Deamus and his injury-prone cripple, that's all that mattered in my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I don't understand why people are getting so bent out of shape about having to fight with injuries. That's what this tourney was all about--we all knew a big part of the tourney would come down to a lucky roll on the injury hidden. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 i havent had any issues with it, in fact most of my guys wins have been when he is injured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I don't understand why people are getting so bent out of shape about having to fight with injuries. That's what this tourney was all about--we all knew a big part of the tourney would come down to a lucky roll on the injury hidden. I understand it, my guy is 5-1 and after the last fight I'm sorta wishing I had not signed up for this anymore. The fighting every week has been great, and during those first 5 fights I was loving the constant activity. This last fight is the first time that my guy fought injured at all, I've sorta lucked out on how my injuries have gone so far. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431408 -- my first fight i face a guy who pops heavy hands, he takes it to me at the beginning of the fight (throwing damage btw as dean and i talked after) and my guy ate those shots, landed 1 in return and got the KO - 4 day injury after the fight http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431408 -- my next fight was against you, u went 0 for 3 on td attempts, landed 0 strikes against me -- i landed 5 shots on you throwing 65 damage and i end up with a 6 day injury http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431460 -- in this fight i didn't change my sliders at all from the fight against you, so again i threw 65 damage, it took me 2 less punches to finish him and a total cage time of 9 sec -- after this fight i popped a 7 day injury, so by the time next week's fight takes place i will no longer be inured, this was the first fight where i really started to wonder WTH is going on with these injuries, they make very little sense http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431498 -- started this next fight uninjured as previously stated, hadn't fought another striker in a while so i didn't throw as much damage as i did against my previous 2 opponents, i ate 1 punch and it took me 7 to finish the fight -- had a 9 day injury after the fight, so i thought OK....next week will be the first time i fight injured, and i'll be fighting an uninjured opponent, very interested to see how the fight goes http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431516 -- in this fight i land 2 punches, my opponent gets an early takedown, throws 0 gnp and submits me with the first move on the ground -- now as i stated earlier my guy has proficient BJJ and wonderful d grapple (0 subs and i know that DOES matter now) but I really don't think that skills or sliders had much to do with that fight (no disrespect to Magnus ofc) but my opponents manager didn't think that they did either " thanks! I am 99% sure that the injury crawford had was the main reason frost was able to get a submission so fast. " (part of his pm to me after i sent him his 10k for beating me) I joined this tournament for 2 reasons, 1 it was SHIV running it and i always try to do what i can to help out friends. The second reason was I had never done a creation tournament before, so I wanted to give it a shot figuring that fighter builds and sliders would have a lot to do with this tournament and was nice to mix it up as most of my guys are vets and in tough orgs and i'm usually fighting at a pretty big disadvantage (which i don't mind at all, why i joined the orgs i did) I'm starting to realize that builds and sliders don't have as much to do with results in this tournament as I thought they would, it's got a lot to do with luck on that injury hidden and facing the right guy at the right time (if his injury is bigger then yours / or other cases fighting an uninjured guy when you are injured) and that has greatly diminished my interest and enthusiasm for this tournament. Now don't get me wrong, I will stick it thru bc frankly i'm not a bitch and not gonna put SHIV in that kinda bind. All i'm saying is if i had to do it over again, i wouldn't...and a lot of me wishes that i could pull out after this first round. on a side not i also just joined EPL, hope i don't end up regretting that decision too lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 I understand it, my guy is 5-1 and after the last fight I'm sorta wishing I had not signed up for this anymore. The fighting every week has been great, and during those first 5 fights I was loving the constant activity. This last fight is the first time that my guy fought injured at all, I've sorta lucked out on how my injuries have gone so far. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431408 -- my first fight i face a guy who pops heavy hands, he takes it to me at the beginning of the fight (throwing damage btw as dean and i talked after) and my guy ate those shots, landed 1 in return and got the KO - 4 day injury after the fight http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431408 -- my next fight was against you, u went 0 for 3 on td attempts, landed 0 strikes against me -- i landed 5 shots on you throwing 65 damage and i end up with a 6 day injury http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431460 -- in this fight i didn't change my sliders at all from the fight against you, so again i threw 65 damage, it took me 2 less punches to finish him and a total cage time of 9 sec -- after this fight i popped a 7 day injury, so by the time next week's fight takes place i will no longer be inured, this was the first fight where i really started to wonder WTH is going on with these injuries, they make very little sense http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431498 -- started this next fight uninjured as previously stated, hadn't fought another striker in a while so i didn't throw as much damage as i did against my previous 2 opponents, i ate 1 punch and it took me 7 to finish the fight -- had a 9 day injury after the fight, so i thought OK....next week will be the first time i fight injured, and i'll be fighting an uninjured opponent, very interested to see how the fight goes http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431516 -- in this fight i land 2 punches, my opponent gets an early takedown, throws 0 gnp and submits me with the first move on the ground -- now as i stated earlier my guy has proficient BJJ and wonderful d grapple (0 subs and i know that DOES matter now) but I really don't think that skills or sliders had much to do with that fight (no disrespect to Magnus ofc) but my opponents manager didn't think that they did either " thanks! I am 99% sure that the injury crawford had was the main reason frost was able to get a submission so fast. " (part of his pm to me after i sent him his 10k for beating me) I joined this tournament for 2 reasons, 1 it was SHIV running it and i always try to do what i can to help out friends. The second reason was I had never done a creation tournament before, so I wanted to give it a shot figuring that fighter builds and sliders would have a lot to do with this tournament and was nice to mix it up as most of my guys are vets and in tough orgs and i'm usually fighting at a pretty big disadvantage (which i don't mind at all, why i joined the orgs i did) I'm starting to realize that builds and sliders don't have as much to do with results in this tournament as I thought they would, it's got a lot to do with luck on that injury hidden and facing the right guy at the right time (if his injury is bigger then yours / or other cases fighting an uninjured guy when you are injured) and that has greatly diminished my interest and enthusiasm for this tournament. Now don't get me wrong, I will stick it thru bc frankly i'm not a bitch and not gonna put SHIV in that kinda bind. All i'm saying is if i had to do it over again, i wouldn't...and a lot of me wishes that i could pull out after this first round. on a side not i also just joined EPL, hope i don't end up regretting that decision too lol I can feel what you're saying--I guess maybe I've just been lucky with injuries...I've come in injured twice, once against a guy who wasn't injured...and I beat them both...so I haven't really felt the backlash of the injury...yet. I don't get why you wouldn't do it again though---you're 5-1! You have as good a chance as anyone at winning it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 i don't play games to win or lose based on luck. i play the lottery for that and frankly there is way bigger prize and the only pitfall for me is i was against 25 yr old builds as i didn't really have any1 i wanted to part with to start. but i signed up and cut some1 anyway, so the thought of winning or losing based on that just sucks lol. maybe i need to change my clothes, i have low morale about the thing right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 If someone posts the links of any of the other upcoming cards I'm happy to add them to the bookies so you guys can place bets. It's a bit tricky finding the other groups that I'm not in, not even sure what the orgs are called. Oh come on! http://mmatycoon.com/orgpublic.php?oid=3171 http://mmatycoon.com/orgpublic.php?oid=3185 The name is "League of Leagues: Group _ - _" in LA! How much easier could it be?! Also, on the discussion of injuries, I have a few thoughts. Firstly, I'm kind of disappointed how injuries have worked out. The entire idea was that injuries are kind of constant and based on hiddens so people could test out their fighters before the tournament and hopefully get guys who don't injure much. Obviously, that theory has now gone out of the window. I honestly don't know if I can do this kind of a tournament again considering how variable injuries are now. As for having fights once a week, the only reason we'd done that is to decrease the overall time period for the tournament. It's currently 16 weeks of leagues followed by the knockout rounds. If we did fights every two weeks, it would have been 32 weeks of leagues. Anyway, moving on to the subject of round 2, I think you guys are forgetting some stuff. In round 2, 3 out of 10 people will qualify in each group. In addition, I will pick 2 more guys as best place non-qualifiers. So, essentially, the top 4 in each group will qualify. You don't have to win round 2... Just be top 4. After that, injuries won't matter as there will be sufficient breaks between all the events in the playoffs. So to earn the prize money, all you need to do is hit top 4. Anyway, I obviously can't force people to not drop out of round 2 but I'd hope that people who qualify for round 2 continue with it simply to keep the integrity of the tournament and get the best 20 guys moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 so basically i can throw my fight with the chinless wonder on friday since he cant advance right? just kidding, id never intentionally lose a fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrClean Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 It has been strange the way the injuries are occurring. They seem to be really random. Quick win, dont even get hit one time and get a double digit injury..... twice. Some fights went in injured and came out with no injury. Im still looking forward to round two though. Thanks for keeping things running smoothly Shiv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronix Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Maybe this tourney can add some really good data for mike to look at how injury works? feels like there is a tune up needed for it. As of now it's totally random and it really should be on the amount of damage recieved and a small luck factor for injurying hands on opponant or such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Oh come on! http://mmatycoon.com/orgpublic.php?oid=3171 http://mmatycoon.com/orgpublic.php?oid=3185 The name is "League of Leagues: Group _ - _" in LA! How much easier could it be?! For some reason I thought there were four orgs instead of two, that's why I couldn't find the others lol. Anyway odds are up for all 8 groups now for the next round of fights, other than ones not confirmed yet. Go place your bets! http://mmatycoon.com/bookmakerpublic.php?bid=7714 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Maybe this tourney can add some really good data for mike to look at how injury works? feels like there is a tune up needed for it. As of now it's totally random and it really should be on the amount of damage recieved and a small luck factor for injurying hands on opponant or such Yeh I'd echo this, this is perhaps the biggest tournney of it's kind when it comes to short term fights. To my knowledge injuries haven't even been spoken about much, at least in the last couple of years. A couple of queries often come up when an injury occurs after a quick win and the common response is, "Maybe he broke his hand". So perhaps now we are seeing that maybe two many dominating fighters 'break their hands' or obtain some other kind of injury despite not taking much damage. I would agrtee that to simulate injuries it would be much better if it was more related to damage with a small amount of random chance added for things like broken hands etc. If you win easily in quick time or without taking much damage it should be pretty uncommon to come out with anything more than a 3 or 4 day injury I think. Otherwise it just gets to be annoying rather than 'realistic' or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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