kumipamppu Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 I just checked the pound for pound top 10 list and there weren´t a single submission victory in their combined record! I personally think that´s lame. I think the game should evolve at least a little bit towards supporting submission guys. Thoughts? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 I just checked the pound for pound top 10 list and there weren´t a single submission victory in their combined record! I personally think that´s lame. I think the game should evolve at least a little bit towards supporting submission guys. Thoughts? this has been talked about forever but there is no sure fire way to fix it. ground fighters need a lot more skills to be successful with the current engine than strikers do so its easier to maintain strikers than it is to maintain grapplers. also, submissions are hard to get in real life, how many submissions do you see on ufc cards? generally one or two at most. not because they lack submissions, its just much easier to learn how to defend than to attack. can submissions use a minor minor boost? sure, but i dont see submission fighters making it to the top 10 p4p list anytime soon, even though there are a lot of good submission fighters in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumipamppu Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 this has been talked about forever but there is no sure fire way to fix it. ground fighters need a lot more skills to be successful with the current engine than strikers do so its easier to maintain strikers than it is to maintain grapplers. also, submissions are hard to get in real life, how many submissions do you see on ufc cards? generally one or two at most. not because they lack submissions, its just much easier to learn how to defend than to attack. can submissions use a minor minor boost? sure, but i dont see submission fighters making it to the top 10 p4p list anytime soon, even though there are a lot of good submission fighters in the game. Yeah, I agree that submissions are much less likely to happen in real life than knockouts. But comparing the real life pound for pound for its Tycoon counterpart, guys in the top do have at least some amount of submission victories. If you look the ground skills of top 10 guys in Mmatycoon, i think with that talent there should be at least a few lucky submissions or something. In real life it would be absurd to have a brown/black belt BJJ guy who hasn`t trained submissions at all and concentrated only on submission defence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJanne Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 In real life it would be absurd to have a brown/black belt BJJ guy who hasn`t trained submissions at all and concentrated only on submission defence. It seems that every highly accomplished fighter in MMATycoon is based on Wanderlei Silva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Yes these guys just was made when striking was better than ground game. Now there have been improved some submission rations and i think there will come out some good submission specialists. But at the same time its almost like real time game when you look at like current UFC champions these guys also dont have lot of submissions only one are chokes witch are made not because of good submissions but because the other guy is just beat up bad on then submitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Yeah, I agree that submissions are much less likely to happen in real life than knockouts. But comparing the real life pound for pound for its Tycoon counterpart, guys in the top do have at least some amount of submission victories. If you look the ground skills of top 10 guys in Mmatycoon, i think with that talent there should be at least a few lucky submissions or something. In real life it would be absurd to have a brown/black belt BJJ guy who hasn`t trained submissions at all and concentrated only on submission defence. wanderlei silva got his black belt just through defense if i remember correctly. also, the belt system in tycoon is weird. it doesnt correlate well to real life mma. anderson silva has a black belt in real life but in game most people agree that he would be a purple belt skill wise. nick diaz has a brown belt in real life but would probably be considered to have a black belt in game. its easier to defend a submission then get one in this game its a fact. i know for a fact that tonal has high submission skills and avoids popping his BJJ to black belt because of tickers. sliding correctly to give your fighter a chance to lock in a submission against a quality opponent is insanely hard. i have my share of grapplers on my roster ive submitted a black and red belt before with my only black belt on my roster. but that was in a grappling tournament, a whole different ball game. here is a general skill outline for a grappler in game in survive remarkable boxing remarkable muay thai exceptional-sensational wrestling exceptional-sensational bjj punches at least wonderful kicks at least wonderful at least feeble elbows at least feeble knees sensational strike defense exceptional clinchwork sensational GnP (but you can get by with lower with high ko power and strength, but the higher the better because most high level fighters have at least exceptional dg) sensational take downs superb TDD sensational submissions sensational or better dg thats what a grappler needs at the minimum to survive at the top as a strictly ground fighter. yes these are not 100% accurate but its an okay outline. yes grapplers can get by with lower skills but in order to survive at the high levels of this game you need to have at least superb in all primaries (bjj may be a little lower than that) this is just my opinion on this though but for strikes they just need this, at least exceptional boxing, wonderful muay thai, wonderful wrestling and a purple belt, skill wise they only need exceptional or better in punches, kicks, clinch, SD, TDD and DG, that is far fewer points needed than what a grappler would need to compete at a similar level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumipamppu Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 But at the same time its almost like real time game when you look at like current UFC champions these guys also dont have lot of submissions only one are chokes witch are made not because of good submissions but because the other guy is just beat up bad on then submitted. Yes, this is what i was saying. I think it´s unrealistic that good ground guys don´t even have chokes on opponents who are raped to the point you could blow the guy down. Last time I checked, Nick Diaz has had a black belt since May 8, 2007. And can a guy who submitted Dan Henderson and submission specialist Chael Sonnen be called a purple belt skillwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Last time I checked, Nick Diaz has had a black belt since May 8, 2007. And can a guy who submitted Dan Henderson and submission specialist Chael Sonnen be called a purple belt skillwise? then why do i distinctly remember hearing on ufc primetime that diaz was a brown belt and i recall seeing him wearing a brown belt during that episode of ufc primetime. and yes while silva has submitted sonnen and hendo, he submitted hendo after destroying him on the feet, and sonnen has 0 triangle defense. remember the old saying, there are black belts and there are BLACK belts, guys like anderson, wanderlei, and shogun fall into the former category, guys like diaz' brothers, bj penn, damien maia, palhares are in the latter category. im not saying anderson is horrible are bjj, just that game wise he would not be considered to have a brown or black belt. his BJJ skills would be like strong/superb bjj with strong submissions and wonderful-exceptional dg. just my opinion though 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJanne Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 then why do i distinctly remember hearing on ufc primetime that diaz was a brown belt and i recall seeing him wearing a brown belt during that episode of ufc primetime. Nate is the one with the brown belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumipamppu Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 then why do i distinctly remember hearing on ufc primetime that diaz was a brown belt and i recall seeing him wearing a brown belt during that episode of ufc primetime. and yes while silva has submitted sonnen and hendo, he submitted hendo after destroying him on the feet, and sonnen has 0 triangle defense. remember the old saying, there are black belts and there are BLACK belts, guys like anderson, wanderlei, and shogun fall into the former category, guys like diaz' brothers, bj penn, damien maia, palhares are in the latter category. im not saying anderson is horrible are bjj, just that game wise he would not be considered to have a brown or black belt. his BJJ skills would be like strong/superb bjj with strong submissions and wonderful-exceptional dg. just my opinion though At least Wikipedia says that Nick Diaz had his belt on on May 8, 2007. Yeah yeah I know what you are meaning with black belts and black belts, had to slap my mouth a little bit Everyone knows Chael Sonnen is known for his awesome submission defence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumipamppu Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Nate is the one with the brown belt. He has also black belt nowadays http://bjpenn.com/mmanews/2012/04/06/nate-diaz-awarded-bjj-black-belt-from-cesar-gracie-18562.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 what? television lied to me?!?!?!?! IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!! /end joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 For the record there have been ground specialIsts in the top 10 p4p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 For the record there have been ground specialIsts in the top 10 p4p yeah i know, the last one i remember was Stehrling, but i havent been paying close attention to the top 10 p4p for a while so im not really up to date Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxwig Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 *crosses his arms* Bubba WAS in the Top 10 P4P and has a submission. Check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 wanderlei silva got his black belt just through defense if i remember correctly. also, the belt system in tycoon is weird. it doesnt correlate well to real life mma. anderson silva has a black belt in real life but in game most people agree that he would be a purple belt skill wise. nick diaz has a brown belt in real life but would probably be considered to have a black belt in game. its easier to defend a submission then get one in this game its a fact. i know for a fact that tonal has high submission skills and avoids popping his BJJ to black belt because of tickers. sliding correctly to give your fighter a chance to lock in a submission against a quality opponent is insanely hard. i have my share of grapplers on my roster ive submitted a black and red belt before with my only black belt on my roster. but that was in a grappling tournament, a whole different ball game. here is a general skill outline for a grappler in game in survive remarkable boxing remarkable muay thai exceptional-sensational wrestling exceptional-sensational bjj punches at least wonderful kicks at least wonderful at least feeble elbows at least feeble knees sensational strike defense exceptional clinchwork sensational GnP (but you can get by with lower with high ko power and strength, but the higher the better because most high level fighters have at least exceptional dg) sensational take downs superb TDD sensational submissions sensational or better dg thats what a grappler needs at the minimum to survive at the top as a strictly ground fighter. yes these are not 100% accurate but its an okay outline. yes grapplers can get by with lower skills but in order to survive at the high levels of this game you need to have at least superb in all primaries (bjj may be a little lower than that) this is just my opinion on this though but for strikes they just need this, at least exceptional boxing, wonderful muay thai, wonderful wrestling and a purple belt, skill wise they only need exceptional or better in punches, kicks, clinch, SD, TDD and DG, that is far fewer points needed than what a grappler would need to compete at a similar level. Wanderlei Silva almost subbed Michael Bisping. Anderson would definitely not be a purple belt in terms of skill. The Diaz horse has already been beaten to death. Tonal has high submissions? I'm pretty sure Deamus told me he neglected them alltogether because of how risky they are and maintenance. I'm not sure if I agree with your outline, especially seeing as body shots are weaker these days. A grappler would definitely need takedowns and defensive grappling as their highest stats by far to combat how everyone and their dog has sensational in DG/TDD. That striker would also get mugged by any of the top guys in the world standing. There's a considerable gap in terms of secondaries, sure, but it's not THAT big (exceptionals or so vs wonderful-sensational more or less across the board). It's close though. I've been expecting more grappling based fighters to rise to the top for years now, and I think we might see it with the counter buff/weaker body shots. One thing about grapplers though is that their striking needs to be high not only to set up the takedown, but also because takedowns are so damn inconsistent. If you get a couple of bad rolls you need to have a striking game to fall back on or you'll get beaten to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Tonal would have lost one of his recent fights if it weren't for getting a takedown late in the fight and getting a stoppage through GnP. Tonal's ground game is pretty instrumental in his success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Wanderlei Silva almost subbed Michael Bisping. Anderson would definitely not be a purple belt in terms of skill. The Diaz horse has already been beaten to death. Tonal has high submissions? I'm pretty sure Deamus told me he neglected them alltogether because of how risky they are and maintenance. I'm not sure if I agree with your outline, especially seeing as body shots are weaker these days. A grappler would definitely need takedowns and defensive grappling as their highest stats by far to combat how everyone and their dog has sensational in DG/TDD. That striker would also get mugged by any of the top guys in the world standing. There's a considerable gap in terms of secondaries, sure, but it's not THAT big (exceptionals or so vs wonderful-sensational more or less across the board). It's close though. I've been expecting more grappling based fighters to rise to the top for years now, and I think we might see it with the counter buff/weaker body shots. One thing about grapplers though is that their striking needs to be high not only to set up the takedown, but also because takedowns are so damn inconsistent. If you get a couple of bad rolls you need to have a striking game to fall back on or you'll get beaten to death. i could be mistaken on the tonal point, my memory isnt the greatest. and i know that outline wasnt perfect, it was just supposed to be an example of the minimum needed for a top of the line grappler. ideally said fighter would be exceptional/exceptional/elite/black with better than the listed punches and kicks and of course elite take downs and dg. and i recall wandy saying he got his black belt mainly through learning how to defend so well. strikers can mostly ignore subs and GnP so thats two less secondaries to worry about, also their take down secondary doesnt need to be great since its not really supposed to be a consistent weapon. grapplers cant ignore punches and kicks so they have a higher minimum amount of points needed to be successful (by about 225-250) compared to strikers. yes the outline isnt perfect, but i wasnt referring to any styles or anything just listing a very general skill outline for a top level grappler. but im not all knowing or all knowledgeable so my word or thoughts arent holy writ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 *crosses his arms* Bubba WAS in the Top 10 P4P and has a submission. Check. Still the only man to finish the great Colin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=48406 YOU MISSED HIS LAST FIGHT ? YOU CRAZY ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 In recent game changes: 11th April - Tweak made to takedowns and submissions so that just having defensive grappling and takedown defense is less effective against higher level grapplers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacky67 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 In recent game changes: 11th April - Tweak made to takedowns and submissions so that just having defensive grappling and takedown defense is less effective against higher level grapplers. that's BS wrestlers are already dominating the games. Edit: Ho submissions guy, we'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Do not agree with those changes at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italscratch Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 This could turn into interesting thread after that info. Haven't noticed that update but I doubt it will be some major boost as Mike usually knows what he is doing. But community will have outrage as usual. I always remember hype when supply companies could "merge" with gyms. That was freak outbreak. If this update enables grapplers level their game against strikers maybe we will not see too many "this is kickboxing tycoon" sentences after all. Yes, we should shit our pants when elite wrestler with black/red belt take our wonderful/purple down. As they shit their pants with theirs wonderful boxing/MT against elite/elite striker p.s. dont look at me, i have only 3 grapplers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioufc420 Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 That's a good update. Of course there will be people who complain as is with every update. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.