Public Gym Subsidies

[Grasman]

OK so here's an idea I've had for a while.

 

Each city gets a subsidy of $X and that money is split equally amongst the public gyms on a weekly or daily basis. So let's say we have a $50k per week subsidy per city, if there are two public gyms in the city they each get $25k per week subsidy.

 

There's also the option to make it more complex. Of the pot, we could split it based on number of fighters signed, or probably better would be overall coach cost. So if you have higher coach costs, you get more of the pot.

Thoughts and alternatives please. I would like to get public gyms thriving again and do it quickly.

Excellent idea.

 

How about a balancing equation where gyms with a ratio of less than 3:1 pay a "tax" that goes to public gyms with a higher ratio.

 

Example - Private gym A has a 1:1 ratio with 12 coaches so you tax them $200 per coach per 1 person under the 3:1. Private gym A pays a weekly tax of $4800 which goes to public gym owner B who is running a 5:1 ratio gym.

 

lol Math was never my strong suit though. But this does seem like a way to get money to public gyms without adding any cash to the already inflated game economy.

I agree with this.

[xanax]

anything to create more revenue for public gyms, i am down for. however, i wouldn't want private gym owners to have to fork over money to me, just doesn't seem fair. but if private gym owners are game for this, whom am i to complain overall, i'd have to go with mikes original suggestion as my pick so far.

 

i'd also like to see some type of gym hype system integrated. it could be based off the hype of the overall fighters in the gym (as balti suggested), cleanliness maintainence, fighter to coach ratio, sparring partners (stars). just throwing that out there.

[Duxwig]

2)Allow more coach for gym that use coach with less skills than 150:

Let's say you want create a gym for noobs, most of the noobs have fighters with less than 110 in a lot of skills, so (didn't remember how much) but a 110 coach could be use.

Wich means if u create that kind of gym with 110 coaches only then let's say u can create 15-16 coaches.

 

I can possibly stand behind something like this.

150 skill * 12 coaches = 1800 skill points.

 

1800 skill points / 110 top skill for a "newb" coach = 16 coaches.

 

Of course this can be fidged a bit due to double elite/triple elite and someone find a good "total skill point" number or good "total coach #" for newb gyms.

 

No top end training, but spreads the love for the newbies a bit more until they are ready to make the jump.

[Face Kicker]

 

2)Allow more coach for gym that use coach with less skills than 150:

Let's say you want create a gym for noobs, most of the noobs have fighters with less than 110 in a lot of skills, so (didn't remember how much) but a 110 coach could be use.

Wich means if u create that kind of gym with 110 coaches only then let's say u can create 15-16 coaches.

 

 

to expand on that idea, how about just a total coach skill cap for gyms? most "elite" gyms (private or public) have a setup similar to this:

 

1 triple elite

7 double elite

4 single elite

 

when you do the math, that's a total of 3,150 coach skill points. now, of course, there are some gyms with more total points than that, but you'd be hard-pressed to find any with more than around 4,000 total coach skill points (3 triple elites, 9 double elites). how about having NO max on the number of coaches, and just a max on the total coach skill points? if set at 4,000 skill points, there could be a "globo-gym" (dodgeball reference, anyone??) that has 40 single-remarkable coaches, just as much as there could be a secret government training facility with 6 quad elites.

 

*edit* damn dux, you beat me to it!

[Duxwig]

anything to create more revenue for public gyms, i am down for. however, i wouldn't want private gym owners to have to fork over money to me, just doesn't seem fair. but if private gym owners are game for this, whom am i to complain overall, i'd have to go with mikes original suggestion as my pick so far.

 

The reason I support taxing private gyms is that it will HOPEFULLY drain enough money out of our pockets to force us to use a public gym. How do we force us? By upping the quality of public gyms and making them more efficient cost/training wise. How do we do that? Subsidy.

 

There's some debate that the rich will remain rich, but theres never a fool proof way around that. It will force enough to public gyms after awhile. Training at a public gym will be good but not great. This will hopefully also bring down the overall skill level of most fighters and lessen "ticker hate."

[WarMachine]

My private gym loses about 10k a week. That's a money sink right there.

 

If training gets slowed down any further I'm done with it, its slow enough as it is.

[jacky67]

The reason I support taxing private gyms is that it will HOPEFULLY drain enough money out of our pockets to force us to use a public gym.

 

Taxing private gym won't work , it will only make the need for money to get a private gym more important,

So u will need more money that means the org will have more power than now cause it's the org that generate all the money in the game.

[xanax]

The reason I support taxing private gyms is that it will HOPEFULLY drain enough money out of our pockets to force us to use a public gym.

 

if this happens i have a cozy little gym in montreal where doors will be open to your fighters

[Face Kicker]

My private gym loses about 10k a week. That's a money sink right there.

 

If training gets slowed down any further I'm done with it, its slow enough as it is.

 

you're lucky, mines about 40k per week

[AlexiZaitev]

you're lucky, mines about 40k per week

mine loses 23k a week with roughly 30 members, 1 triple elite, 3 double elites, the rest singles

[silvec88]

I think the biggest problem with public gyms is the quality. People have to train 7 to 1 and even 10 to 1 in some cases on coaches and never really improve on what their training. So by rewarding gyms for having higher coach to fighter ratios I think will just make the quality of public gyms worse.

 

 

Personally, I think the only way for public gyms to become a viable option again is to make public training useful. This would mean public gym owners would need to make a profit with low caps. I think we could either reduce the costs of coaches, or come up with a system for gym fees.

 

 

My only idea really is just a real rough example. I was thinking gyms with a fighter to coach ratio of 3:1 might be able to set their fees between $600-$1000 while 5:1 can set theirs between $400-$599 and maybe 7:1 at $100-$399. Anything over that or without coaches has to run it between $1-$99. Now for top training you still have to pay a bit more but even at $1000, with the contract these days it'd be pretty easy to cover. And this way the newer managers would be able to work up to the 3:1 gyms a lot quicker as saving up a few thousand for 1 fighter is much simpler than saving up a few million for a private gym. And the only way to get a decent coach to fighter ratio these days is with a private gym.

[Guest]

My public gym actually makes a profit. But I have to make the gym size bigger and less effective coaches. If I where to make more cash I could replace the lesser coaches with better ones and even lower the gym size.

I would also like to see more coaches added to gyms.

I like Mike's idea of public gyms getting cash from the pot depending on gym size/expenses.

[PBR]

My public gym actually makes a profit. But I have to make the gym size bigger and less effective coaches. If I where to make more cash I could replace the lesser coaches with better ones and even lower the gym size.

I would also like to see more coaches added to gyms.

I like Mike's idea of public gyms getting cash from the pot depending on gym size/expenses.

this is one of the issues here -- its tough to make a gym profitable because as mentioned in this post they lower the cap to where they break even pretty much -- just to get better gains in training -- its always been the case i just dont ever see gyms being profitable really unless sparring / carido gyms only -- only idea i have is maybe bring upper end of training little closer where say class of 3 and class of like 7 are closer -- i just feel like mentioned in his response that the profit will be used to lower gym cap thus no real profit made, just feel like most if not all gyms would do this

[DougSupreme]

to expand on that idea, how about just a total coach skill cap for gyms? most "elite" gyms (private or public) have a setup similar to this:

 

1 triple elite

7 double elite

4 single elite

 

when you do the math, that's a total of 3,150 coach skill points. now, of course, there are some gyms with more total points than that, but you'd be hard-pressed to find any with more than around 4,000 total coach skill points (3 triple elites, 9 double elites). how about having NO max on the number of coaches, and just a max on the total coach skill points? if set at 4,000 skill points, there could be a "globo-gym" (dodgeball reference, anyone??) that has 40 single-remarkable coaches, just as much as there could be a secret government training facility with 6 quad elites.

 

*edit* damn dux, you beat me to it!

 

 

I proposed this idea to Mike about 2 years ago, but the current system was already entrenched and we felt it would be too hard to change over. I'd STILL love to see this idea work. I think it would make for some really diverse gyms.

[silvec88]

to expand on that idea, how about just a total coach skill cap for gyms? most "elite" gyms (private or public) have a setup similar to this:

 

1 triple elite

7 double elite

4 single elite

 

when you do the math, that's a total of 3,150 coach skill points. now, of course, there are some gyms with more total points than that, but you'd be hard-pressed to find any with more than around 4,000 total coach skill points (3 triple elites, 9 double elites). how about having NO max on the number of coaches, and just a max on the total coach skill points? if set at 4,000 skill points, there could be a "globo-gym" (dodgeball reference, anyone??) that has 40 single-remarkable coaches, just as much as there could be a secret government training facility with 6 quad elites.

 

*edit* damn dux, you beat me to it!

 

This just seems to me like the quality of the gyms will still be bad in order to make a profit and in the long run will end up in the same spot we're at now. No ones going to want to run a gym that doesn't make a profit and if you add more coaches at a lower quality, you still get lower quality training after a certain point. If you add less higher quality coaches then you'll still need to have a large number of fighters to make a profit leading to over crowded classes. It just seems to me like this idea will mask the problem until people again start to realize public gyms are either useless quality or run at massive deficits.

[Guest]

There are very few gyms that bridge the gap from cardio gyms to full blown 12 coaches @ $600 per week. There are some but they don't offer the training that some (experienced) players might want to improve their fighter. So maybe this could offer an incentive to people to open up maybe small 4-5 coach, focus gyms and allow managers to build up their fighters for a reasonable amount.

[Guest]

why not give private gym owners the option to run public gyms also?

they are not realy running two companies just two of the same company and you would at least get top notch public gyms prety soon appearing

[koryhodgins]

I run a tight gym but have financial difficulties because of my standards. I love the NPC idea because it benefits all of us the want to keep a high quality gym. We have so many fighters in gyms with no respect for their equipment or cleanliness. These fighters bog down the game because the managers just don't know any better or don't care. So their money doesn't get to the good owners who give a crap. Giving money to the gyms that obviously don't care doesn't make sense. I would love the opportunity to provide top notch service and benefit everyone that needs the best training. I just can't afford to do so. Lets run with NPC's that look for quality. It helps us all, but be cautious how many we have. It shouldn't be easy money. Fighters of different levels, looking for different training and different quality.

 

These fighters should not take up spots of active fighters. Say a gym has room for 125 fighters. It has 121 manager run fighters. 4 NPC's "choose" to join this gym. It should still have 4 openings for active managers looking for training for their fighters. So the NPC gets bumped. This will eliminate the need for infinite gyms because the demand is too high and there are no options because the NPC's take up the slots.

Start with 100 NPC's per city. All of these guys have random needs and search different gym requirements. The specifics are over my head, the developers are the specialists.

What does everyone think?

[Face Kicker]

This just seems to me like the quality of the gyms will still be bad in order to make a profit and in the long run will end up in the same spot we're at now. No ones going to want to run a gym that doesn't make a profit and if you add more coaches at a lower quality, you still get lower quality training after a certain point. If you add less higher quality coaches then you'll still need to have a large number of fighters to make a profit leading to over crowded classes. It just seems to me like this idea will mask the problem until people again start to realize public gyms are either useless quality or run at massive deficits.

 

the general misconception that you need an elite coach for the best training is a big part of the problem. i'd wager that well over half of the fighters in this game would learn MORE in a gym packed with wonderful coaches with only a few fighters per session, as compared to getting into gyms with elite coaches that have like 8+ fighters per session.

[Guest]

 

 

i'd also like to see some type of gym hype system integrated. it could be based off the hype of the overall fighters in the gym (as balti suggested), cleanliness maintainence, fighter to coach ratio, sparring partners (stars). just throwing that out there.

 

I like the idea of having fighter and gym hype tied together. If a gym has a lot of highly hyped fighters training there, it would have a lot of hype. Then as the fighters' hype changes so will the gym's. If it was set up so that a fighter joining the gym got a hype boost just from being a part of the gym (or a hype drop from leaving the gym), the gyms and fighters would have an incentive to to find and keep the best quality.

 

Another thing I've thought of before is tying the BJJ belts to the gyms. If the hype of the fighters and gyms are tied together, then there could be some difference (hype, prestige, skill, whatever) between getting your black belt from a high quality gym instead of a low quality gym.

 

And since martial arts belt systems are really just customer loyalty programs, it may help to add some sort of loyalty program to the gyms. Fighters who train there for some time period or spend some amount of money could get fee discounts, free supplements, private training sessions, or something like that.

 

I think that the public gyms will be more profitable if the managers have a financial incentive to put their fighters in those gyms.

[silvec88]

I still think the problem is first off quality. Everyone wants to be able to compete and not just play the role of jobber in every organization they enter. Even in ID restricted orgs, the fighters who train at higher quality gyms will be the ones to slowly separate themselves skill wise from the rest and dominate. Part of the fun of this game is watching your fighters progress and at the same time winning fights. If you train at a public gym, you either need a massive ID advantage or you need to only fight other public gym fighters in order to have a fighting chance. The second problem that needs to be corrected is profit. People stopped running public gyms because in order to run them you have to run them at massive losses for good quality or terrible quality for profits. I think we need some sort of system to make higher quality gyms slightly profitable and to keep the lower quality sparring and conditioning gyms approximately where they are. If the profits are better with lower quality public gyms, everyone is going to run a lower quality gym because everyone is striving to make more money on this game so they can open up their own private gym.So to sum it up, I think we need to reward quality public gyms and I think we need a system in place that stresses quality over quantity so that public gyms don't just supply terrible training.

[silvec88]

the general misconception that you need an elite coach for the best training is a big part of the problem. i'd wager that well over half of the fighters in this game would learn MORE in a gym packed with wonderful coaches with only a few fighters per session, as compared to getting into gyms with elite coaches that have like 8+ fighters per session.

 

Many fighters now are quad wonderful and those are the middle of the pack average fighters. If you start getting lower quality coaches you're just going to create a massive influx of n00b gyms which is great for starting out fighters. Problem is all the higher quality fighters are still going to want that elite training so the private gyms are still going to be needed and the public gyms will still be over crowded in terms of class sizes. Now I know an overcrowded elite coach is useless. I couldn't even imagine a lesser coach over crowded. Some of the fighters may even lose knowledge from taking their classes. lol.

[Guest]

My personal problem, running a 12 x elite gym, is that to stay profitable, I have to have over 80 fighters, which can cause some class sizes to get larger than I'd like. I'd much prefer to be able to raise the rates and lower the cap. Give people that can't afford private gyms but could easily afford the extra 200-400 a week a nice place to train.

[ClarkKent]

I totally support helping out public gyms, but i don't really understand why we're trying to make private gyms even more of a money sink. They already lose a lot of money, why are we trying to tax private gyms evenmore when there isn't a problem there.

 

People work hard to get to the top or in a position where they can operate a private gym to make a push to get their fighters to the top, they deserve that privilege. People who start the game and complain because their 2 month old project will "never be able to make it" need to realise it takes time. I really think we should find a way to make public gyms profitable and fun to run/be in. But i just think hurting private gyms anymore is stupid.

[Face Kicker]

Many fighters now are quad wonderful and those are the middle of the pack average fighters. If you start getting lower quality coaches you're just going to create a massive influx of n00b gyms which is great for starting out fighters. Problem is all the higher quality fighters are still going to want that elite training so the private gyms are still going to be needed and the public gyms will still be over crowded in terms of class sizes. Now I know an overcrowded elite coach is useless. I couldn't even imagine a lesser coach over crowded. Some of the fighters may even lose knowledge from taking their classes. lol.

 

yeah but the point is this:

 

take 2 gyms, both with 84 fighters, both $600/month. that's $50,400 per week to work with.

 

gym A (the standard "elite" gym we have now)

1 triple elite ($7,250/week)

5 double elite ($25,000/week)

6 single elite ($16,500/week)

total cost to run = $48,750/week. so, when you account for equipment and cleaning costs, this gym essentially runs at no profit, or extremely minimal profit.

 

gym B (based on the proposed total coach skill cap)

2 triple sensational ($9,640/week)

6 double sensational ($20,280/week)

8 single sensational ($15,520/week)

total cost to run = $45,440/week. so this gym should make around 5k per week.

 

gym A is at 7 fighters per session, so you can round it down to 6 when you account for resting/sparring/weights/yoga/cardio.

 

gym B is at 5.25 fighters per session, so you can round it down to barely over 4 when you account for resting/sparring/weights/yoga/cardio.

 

 

so gym B has better training, AND makes more money. now, if you slightly decrease the cost of lower level coaches, this increases their profits even more, OR increases the level of training even more (more coaches = lower fighter/session numbers)