Qrash Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I have some brown belts in my stable that have absolutely no offensive BJJ skills. They have elite def grappling, but useless subs and useless GNP. It's purely defensive skills. Is that realistic? What about a black belt with only defensive skills? I'm not too educated in real life BJJ but it just seems odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 ya wanderlei silva for the most part has a black belt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 bjj without subs is useless in real life 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minark Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 It is possible, but Wandy is really the only case I know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynch96 Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 It's not at all possible. You have to be proficient with certain submissions to get higher up in belts. It's not even really possible to get a purple belt with no offensive skills. Just because you don't see Wanderlai go for submissions in MMA doesn't mean he doesn't know how to do them/hasn't done them in training. Going for submissions in MMA very is risky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 bjj without subs is useless in real life I beg to differ. BJJ is a lot more than just submitting people. Even more so in MMA. Good BJJ skills helps with sub defence, understanding positioning and getting good positions or getting up from the floor. Helps tremendously with GnP too becouse there you need the position first before you can land any significant shots. There are loads of MMA fighters who know BJJ but does not submit ppl in their fights. The only thing missing from most of these guys is the dyed piece of some fabric on their waists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 cro cop is also brown belt in bjj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minark Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 It's not at all possible. You have to be proficient with certain submissions to get higher up in belts. It's not even really possible to get a purple belt with no offensive skills. Just because you don't see Wanderlai go for submissions in MMA doesn't mean he doesn't know how to do them/hasn't done them in training. Going for submissions in MMA very is risky. He may have trained them and he may know tons of submissions, but to say he's skilled in submissions? I'm not saying you don't have to know submissions and have trained submissions but there's no black belt challenge that says you have to submit a gracie. You just have to go through the certain training and have the knowledge needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynch96 Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 The op said useless offensive skills. There's a large gap between useless and subbing a Gracie. You would find Wanderlai in there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Here we go... No, you can't. It's a game. There are also no dragons and you can't aim while you shoot and you can't take five bullets to the chest and still run like nothing happened. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Rashads Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Here we go... No, you can't. It's a game. There are also no dragons and you can't aim while you shoot and you can't take five bullets to the chest and still run like nothing happened. I'm willing to bet the Dragon Chest Shooty Game isn't a simulation either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardiffWanderer Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I have some brown belts in my stable that have absolutely no offensive BJJ skills. They have elite def grappling, but useless subs and useless GNP. It's purely defensive skills. Is that realistic? What about a black belt with only defensive skills? I'm not too educated in real life BJJ but it just seems odd. BJJ is subjective at best. There are guys who have rudimentary skills at best but walk around with a brown belt while other more skilled and often more experienced practitioners will only have a purple belt or lower. The belts are awarded in conjunction with the practices of the individual school so there is very little chance to quantify a certain level. Therefore it could be assumed that a purely defensive (or offensive for that matter) black belt with significant weaknesses to his game could be from a less scrupulous school while someone who is well-rounded ground specialist is a Gracie or Bravo student. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJanne Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I remember a couple of years ago when Alliance Jiu Jitsu was supposed to adopt belt tests, a part of the reasons why Lucio Linhares who gave me my blue belt left Alliance, there was talk that a brown belt test would require 30 finishes from mount. So, that would indicate that some offense is needed And I thought that it was relatively well known that Wanderlei's black belt is just a gift out of respect. Or to add it like in Rashad's case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 BJJ is subjective at best. There are guys who have rudimentary skills at best but walk around with a brown belt while other more skilled and often more experienced practitioners will only have a purple belt or lower. The belts are awarded in conjunction with the practices of the individual school so there is very little chance to quantify a certain level. Therefore it could be assumed that a purely defensive (or offensive for that matter) black belt with significant weaknesses to his game could be from a less scrupulous school while someone who is well-rounded ground specialist is a Gracie or Bravo student. Completely off-topic, but welcome back to the single most influential person in Tycoon history! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 It is possible for them learning it for defensive purposes or to specialize in it but realistically speaking even if you are learning how to defend and getting belts for it you are naturally going to learn how to use them as well. It's like this how are you suppose to know to prevent something if you don't know hot apply it? If you know how to apply you can utilize it. Might just be something you don't want to go for. Same can be said about finishing fights by submissions only. Take Jimy Hettes' fight against Nam Phan for instance he had finished every fight by submission and was dominating Nam Phan but no matter how out of it Phan was he kept defending the submissions correctly but instead of continuing and ending the fight with the brutal ground and pound Hettes was putting on Phan that he had no answer for he kept breaking away to go for submissions because that is how he likes to finish his fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 He may have trained them and he may know tons of submissions, but to say he's skilled in submissions? I'm not saying you don't have to know submissions and have trained submissions but there's no black belt challenge that says you have to submit a gracie. You just have to go through the certain training and have the knowledge needed. i didnt say you need to submit someone .. but getting your belt can be done by showing a lot of skills.. and most skills are submissions (and in the cage is just the show to give a belt) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Rashad and Shogun. Someone already mentioned Wandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minark Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 i didnt say you need to submit someone .. but getting your belt can be done by showing a lot of skills.. and most skills are submissions (and in the cage is just the show to give a belt) Yeah, I look at knowledge and skills differently though. If someone has skill, then they are good at it IMO. In order to rank up in the belt system, it goes by your knowledge and in some cases time practiced. So you have to know how to do them and have practiced them, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're good at any of them. Now I agree, to have useless subs with a black belt is probably impossible in real life. But I'm sure you can have plenty of knowledge and little skill with offensive submissions and attain a black belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynch96 Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Shogun?! are you kidding? He's a legit black belt.... He put one of the nastiest knee bars I've ever seen on a roided out kevin randleman. He uses the omoplata to switch all the time. Look guys, It's like this one fighter I have. He has Wonderful Submissions, I never use the submissions on him, because I don't like his chances to finish the fight that way. He's a KO power guy, I want him to GnP people out, and hold position. These guys you are all mentioning know how to use submissions, but there's a difference between having some skill and being able to submit world class fighters. What the OP said was not that people have brown/black belts and don't submit people. He said is it possible to have USELESS skill in submissions and ground and pound in real life and still be a brown/black belt. That is simply impossible. Even if you are only training it defensively for the purpose of your sport, you still know how to do these things. It's impossible to train anywhere to a black belt level without learning how to do let's say a kimura, armbar, or rear naked choke. Someone with useless offensive skill, wouldn't be able to do any of that. In this game it is possible to separate these two things. In real life they are combined, you can't understand the submission game unless you know how to defend and apply submissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Has Rashad ever attempted a single sub or done anything off his back other than escape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Has Rashad ever attempted a single sub or done anything off his back other than escape? he actually have 1 submission win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Jeff Monson pretty much never actually lands subs on remotely decent people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 BJJ is subjective at best. There are guys who have rudimentary skills at best but walk around with a brown belt while other more skilled and often more experienced practitioners will only have a purple belt or lower. The belts are awarded in conjunction with the practices of the individual school so there is very little chance to quantify a certain level. Therefore it could be assumed that a purely defensive (or offensive for that matter) black belt with significant weaknesses to his game could be from a less scrupulous school while someone who is well-rounded ground specialist is a Gracie or Bravo student. Welcome back dude - nice to see you around again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minark Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 BJJ is subjective at best. There are guys who have rudimentary skills at best but walk around with a brown belt while other more skilled and often more experienced practitioners will only have a purple belt or lower. The belts are awarded in conjunction with the practices of the individual school so there is very little chance to quantify a certain level. Therefore it could be assumed that a purely defensive (or offensive for that matter) black belt with significant weaknesses to his game could be from a less scrupulous school while someone who is well-rounded ground specialist is a Gracie or Bravo student. Don't know you personally but I've read through your guide. Welcome back and thanks for the beginners guide. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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