Sliders + its importance

[Mentor]

To be honest i am maybe not the best person to be talking about sliders and how they work because frankly speaking i have been "semi-retired" from the actual fighting part of the game for over a year now. However i have had 2 MAJOR manager of mine which have complained on the slider recently and are even considering leaving the game. Here is their argument:

 

I'm not sure if there is a problem with the engine, the only thing I know is that I can't find consistency in it. I'm very good at scouting and can usually predict what my opponent will do. In the past when I could do that I almost always won my fight as I knew how to counter what they would do. With this new engine I can't not find consistent counters to anything and that means my scouting is useless and I have no clue what will happen when going into fights.

 

I play the game because I like developing fighters, building them, seeing how they turn out and try to get them to the top. Sliders is just something I have to do to see those things happen, not something I actually enjoy doing. With these last changes my failure with the sliders is completely ruining the work I have done with training and it's absolutely killing my interest in the game.

 

My view is similar. I think that fights should be determined on mainly on the following factors:

 

#1 How good your fighter is in comparison

#2 Preparation (moral, cuts, injuries and energy levels)

#3 Hidden skills

#4 Your strategy used (ie he could be better in most things, however he could not play to his strengths or you could use your main weapon more effectively)

#5 A few unpredictable wins could occur on occasion, however this will mostly be down to some fluke KO or some unexpected cut.

 

#4 is basically the sliders. Strategy should make up 15-20% of the equasion, not more. Why?

 

a) It is not realistic to see weaker fighters regularly pull off upsets. Note: Strategy is basically an upset

"strategy" takes time and when you have 15-20 fighters it becomes a hell of a task to pull that off

c) Losing a fight due to this factor can be hugely dissapointing to the person which put in the effort to get his fighter ready.

 

Bottom line is that if someone has an Elite Wrestler with Elite TD defense, it should be virtually impossible to take him down with someone with lesser skills, irrelevant of the strategy you use. The same applies with stand up, ground game etc.

 

I am not saying this is happening now, however with the recent tweaks it seems to be happening a lot more. I cannot afford to see my top managers leave the game simply because the sliders are being played around

[Showdown]

I'm pretty sure I know who you are quoting with that second part, and I REALLY hope he stays.

 

 

I pretty much agree with your view of how fights should be determined, Mentor.

[PBR]

the only thing I know is that I can't find consistency in it

 

i dont know maybe its just me but i find this a good thing -- if you find consistency then you find a certain setting that pretty much wins all which in no way should their be (like old 100% counter) -- personally i think sliders should be a main factor or have the greatest % of figuring into a win (not overpowering %)-- cause if they dont then its just a race to have highest skills -- i do agree they should be taken into consideration just not sure if i agree with the order you have the keys to winning in -- like i say personally i think sliders should way pretty heavy cause if they dont then why even have them -- strategy is what makes this game fun strategy isnt fluke its preparation

 

edited: i hate to see anyone leave but i also hate to see managers get more wins just cause their guy has higher skills -- i could see way more leaving if that happens

[KellyM5]

I agree PBR and Mentor you say that sliders should only determine 15-20% of the fight? This would be a very boring game if it was just train high skills and you win. The sliders should always play a major role in the fight. They're fine as they are.

[Guest]

"I'm very good at scouting and can usually predict what my opponent will do. In the past when I could do that I almost always won my fight as I knew how to counter what they would do. With this new engine I can't not find consistent counters to anything and that means my scouting is useless and I have no clue what will happen when going into fights."

 

I really don´t mean to be a dick, but to play devil´s advocate, isn´t there a chance that other managers, particularly at the top end of the game, have simply improved their own strategies, including throwing in some unexpected things in order to throw the opponent off the scent? This seems to me a bit like Palhares saying "hang on, Belcher was meant to want to strike with me, it´s not fair that he GnP´ed me because I didn´t expect it!"

 

There are plenty of managers (not me, sadly!) who win on a regular basis, so it clearly can be done, the game engine can´t be totally inconsistent when some guys consistently win.

[LanceTempleton]

i dont know maybe its just me but i find this a good thing -- if you find consistency then you find a certain setting that pretty much wins all which in no way should their be (like old 100% counter)

 

Thats not what he is saying.

 

I believe what he is saying is that the engine is inconsistent right now. If this is true I would think it would lead to your scenario more than a consistent one, meaning you could find a specific slider setting and not need to vary much from it.

 

What I believe he means is that there doesn't seem to really be a ying to the yang anymore. Certain slider settings used to beat other certain slider settings. This meant that if you did your homework and scouted your opponent and tried to figure out what they were going to do you could attempt to "counter" their sliders. They could always switch it up, but that is what made it a fun chess match.

 

If the game engine truly is inconsistent, meaning not one style beats a certain other style then it becomes more luck of the draw or the better statted fighter winning.

[LanceTempleton]

personally i think sliders should be a main factor or have the greatest % of figuring into a win (not overpowering %)-- cause if they dont then its just a race to have highest skills -- i do agree they should be taken into consideration just not sure if i agree with the order you have the keys to winning in -- like i say personally i think sliders should way pretty heavy cause if they dont then why even have them -- strategy is what makes this game fun strategy isnt fluke its preparation

 

 

I believe the OP is saying this as well. But his point is if the engine is inconsistent setting sliders is just random instead of a well thought out strategy.

[Grasman]

Thats not what he is saying.

 

I believe what he is saying is that the engine is inconsistent right now. If this is true I would think it would lead to your scenario more than a consistent one, meaning you could find a specific slider setting and not need to vary much from it.

 

What I believe he means is that there doesn't seem to really be a ying to the yang anymore. Certain slider settings used to beat other certain slider settings. This meant that if you did your homework and scouted your opponent and tried to figure out what they were going to do you could attempt to "counter" their sliders. They could always switch it up, but that is what made it a fun chess match.

 

If the game engine truly is inconsistent, meaning not one style beats a certain other style then it becomes more luck of the draw or the better statted fighter winning.

 

I disagree with the highlighted.

 

What i find has changed, and for the better, is that there actually is a yin to the yang, as opposed to how it was with heavy counter.

Now i can variate much more with the sliders based on what type of hiddens my individual fighters seem to have.

Yes KO power and weaker chins could be adjusted, but only very very slightly.

 

So, in general I very much disaggree with the problems Mentor claims are a "problem" and haven't been victim to many inconsistencies in my fights.

The fights i lose i usually put down as my own fault or the opposing fighter/manager simply having a better strategy.

 

But, i do learn the most from those losses, and that's a good thing.

[Grasman]

It took a fucking while to get to grips with it, with disastrous losses and managerial hype dip,

but having got somewhat the hang of the sliders again, it seems to be paying dividends recently....

[LanceTempleton]

I disagree with the highlighted.

 

What i find has changed, and for the better, is that there actually is a ying to the yang, as opposed to how it was with heavy counter.

 

 

There was a ying to the yang before it just turned out there was no yang to heavy counter and people figured it out, haha.

 

Anyways, I am going to remove myself from this conversation, because I did a pretty shitty job trying to interpret what I thought the OP meant and since im not even sure if i agree or not it makes no sense for me to continue sounding dumb here lol.

 

What I do know is that the OP definitely should of got permission from the person he quoted before quoting only a piece of what was said out of context.

[Grasman]

There was a ying to the yang before it just turned out there was no yang to heavy counter and people figured it out, haha.

 

Anyways, I am going to remove myself from this conversation, because I did a pretty shitty job trying to interpret what I thought the OP meant and since im not even sure if i agree or not it makes no sense for me to continue sounding dumb here lol.

 

What I do know is that the OP definitely should of got permission from the person he quoted before quoting only a piece of what was said out of context.

 

You never do a shitty job Lance.

 

But,, my point in this is that there seems to be a consensus about a certain slider setting being dominant in the game.

But IMO, that setting only works well for certain type of fighters against another certain type of fighter.

I have had great success with heavy agg/heavy dam, heavy agg/decent acc, semi agg/semi dam etc....

all based on which of fighter is fighting and against what type of fighter and the fights usually end in a KO regardless of which setting was used.

The main diff is the time it takes to get the KO, if it comes at all.

 

I respect both you and Mentor, just don't agree with those saying there are big inconsistencies in the fight engine.

 

My favorite add to the fight engine as it is, would be to "up the chin hidden" so it's able to sustain about 5% more than currently, but to leave KO power as it is.

[Grasman]

In hindsight, maybe Mike could up the gameplan effect (sliders) in the fight engine (if at all possible) while enhancing the chin hidden slightly.

[silvec88]

Bottom line is that if someone has an Elite Wrestler with Elite TD defense, it should be virtually impossible to take him down with someone with lesser skills, irrelevant of the strategy you use. The same applies with stand up, ground game etc.

 

I am not saying this is happening now, however with the recent tweaks it seems to be happening a lot more. I cannot afford to see my top managers leave the game simply because the sliders are being played around

 

 

I'm in total agreement. In fact I had a fight tonight that there is no way I should have gone 0/18 on takedowns.

 

 

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=467668

 

Jones is Sensational wrestler and Elite BJJ with all ground secondaries, clinchwork and striking defense to match. His punches aren't terrible either. Had I spammed takedowns, maybe Jones should have tired out a bit and been a bit less successful. Even then he should have hit a few. I even mixed up strikes with takedowns and his sensational/elite ground game was pounced by superb wrestler with a purple belt. I know there has been worse cases than this, but this is a pretty bad one.

 

On top of that, until these last few weeks, I've always been great with the ground game. Not saying the game needs to change, but I'm saying the consistency of this game has become 95% luck and 5% that you actually have control over. I'm not complaining about losing as I've lost plenty of fights and never posted on one of them. It just annoys me that training up skills is useless when striking is the only thing that matters in this game anymore. Shitty wrestlers are stuffing sensational and elite wrestlers as much as ever and it makes no sense.

[Erik]

Hiddens are a vastly bigger factor than sliders atm, just saying.

[DeadlyDirk]

Hiddens are a vastly bigger factor than sliders atm, just saying.

 

Definitely

[Grasman]

I'm in total agreement. In fact I had a fight tonight that there is no way I should have gone 0/18 on takedowns.

 

 

 

http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=467668

 

Jones is Sensational wrestler and Elite BJJ with all ground secondaries, clinchwork and striking defense to match. His punches aren't terrible either. Had I spammed takedowns, maybe Jones should have tired out a bit and been a bit less successful. Even then he should have hit a few. I even mixed up strikes with takedowns and his sensational/elite ground game was pounced by superb wrestler with a purple belt. I know there has been worse cases than this, but this is a pretty bad one.

 

On top of that, until these last few weeks, I've always been great with the ground game. Not saying the game needs to change, but I'm saying the consistency of this game has become 95% luck and 5% that you actually have control over. I'm not complaining about losing as I've lost plenty of fights and never posted on one of them. It just annoys me that training up skills is useless when striking is the only thing that matters in this game anymore. Shitty wrestlers are stuffing sensational and elite wrestlers as much as ever and it makes no sense.

The highlighted is simply wrong, sorry mate.

How was the Shig set, if high on Shig, the fighter might be thicker than you thought,, if high on follow orders, the fighter might be simply bad at following orders.

How were your sliders set, if the fighter is doing something different than you set the sliders to, the above sentence fits.

 

Now looking at your opponents, the two you lost to had considerably better standup than the ones you beat, plus the fact your fighter doesn't seem to have a lot of confidense. If you look at the fight statistics, you are going for c.a. 20% takedowns in the standup and upto 50% in the clinch,, imo thats too high and predictable, especially in the clinch. while your opponent is turnig your fighters face into Paté, your fighter is constantly going for takedowns....

In both those fights your opponent had way more energy in the end than your fighter had, so inevitably you got ko'd.

 

To come here and say its 95% luck is at best laughable.

 

After the changes i was getting hammered back and forth, losing around 50% of my fights, until i got to grips with the new sliders and the co called "luck factor" seems to be very limited to me. The only overpowering hidden at the moment seems to be KO power.

 

But if your fighter has a decent/good chin, that factor is easily counterable with sliders settings.

 

Hence imo, chin tolerance should be upped slightly.....

[Grasman]

Definitely

 

Only ko power v dodgy chin Imo, is very hard to counter with slider settings,, solution, up the chin hidden a tad.

 

What other hiddens are overpowering sliders more than they were before or more than they actually should be?

[DeadlyDirk]

Only ko power v dodgy chin Imo, is very hard to counter with slider settings,, solution, up the chin hidden a tad.

 

What other hiddens are overpowering sliders more than they were before or more than they actually should be?

 

To be fair it is KO power or Chin (Hard to say whether KO power is too strong, or chin's are a little too weak) which causes most of the 'problems', confidence is something extremely important as well now though.

 

I just think you could work around bad hiddens a little more before but these days it can be very tricky regardless of sliders, which isn't nessicarily wrong, it's just a little different.

[Grasman]

To be fair it is KO power or Chin (Hard to say whether KO power is too strong, or chin's are a little too weak) which causes most of the 'problems', confidence is something extremely important as well now though.

 

I just think you could work around bad hiddens a little more before but these days it can be very tricky regardless of sliders, which isn't nessicarily wrong, it's just a little different.

I agree with everything you are saying here mate.

[DeadlyDirk]

I agree with everything you are saying here mate.

 

I think largely it's just accepting the fact that a guy with a mediocre chin and mediocre power is not going to cut it in todays fight engine regardless of their skills and sliders, when perhaps you could work around it a little more before the latest changes.

 

Like I said before though, it's just different rather than wrong. How many fighters in real life with mediocre power and a suspect chin get very far or at least put a consistent run of wins together.

 

The sensible way before used to be to go towards heavy counter but that can be a death sentence these days, although still workable from time to time.

[Guest]

I believe what he is saying is that the engine is inconsistent right now. If this is true I would think it would lead to your scenario more than a consistent one, meaning you could find a specific slider setting and not need to vary much from it.

This summarizes how I feel about the fight engine quite well. I just see too little difference between most slider settings is just to bother varying too much, altho there is benefit to small variances. I am at 90 - 100 FMO all the time, just saying in advance.

 

To be fair it is KO power or Chin (Hard to say whether KO power is too strong, or chin's are a little too weak) which causes most of the 'problems', confidence is something extremely important as well now though.

 

I just think you could work around bad hiddens a little more before but these days it can be very tricky regardless of sliders, which isn't nessicarily wrong, it's just a little different.

Its not KO power vs chin, its KO power vs chin/cuts/heart/confidence. Having high end ko power just makes a fighter ridiculously stronger compared to any other hidden and lets you get away with a ton of stuff simply due to how strong KO power is.

[silvec88]

The highlighted is simply wrong, sorry mate.

How was the Shig set, if high on Shig, the fighter might be thicker than you thought,, if high on follow orders, the fighter might be simply bad at following orders.

How were your sliders set, if the fighter is doing something different than you set the sliders to, the above sentence fits.

 

Now looking at your opponents, the two you lost to had considerably better standup than the ones you beat, plus the fact your fighter doesn't seem to have a lot of confidense. If you look at the fight statistics, you are going for c.a. 20% takedowns in the standup and upto 50% in the clinch,, imo thats too high and predictable, especially in the clinch. while your opponent is turnig your fighters face into Paté, your fighter is constantly going for takedowns....

In both those fights your opponent had way more energy in the end than your fighter had, so inevitably you got ko'd.

 

To come here and say its 95% luck is at best laughable.

 

After the changes i was getting hammered back and forth, losing around 50% of my fights, until i got to grips with the new sliders and the co called "luck factor" seems to be very limited to me. The only overpowering hidden at the moment seems to be KO power.

 

But if your fighter has a decent/good chin, that factor is easily counterable with sliders settings.

 

Hence imo, chin tolerance should be upped slightly.....

 

Yeah, I was exaggerating those numbers a bit. As far as confidence, he dropped to about 65% after the fight. Is that shit confidence? I always thought 0 was shit confidence and 60 something would be about mid ship. Like maybe a 75-85 out of the 150 possible points. As far as sliders, they were at about 15% takedowns stand up and 40% takedowns in the clinch with 100% FMO. I don't understand how 4 out of every 10 moves being a takedown in the clinch is predictable. I understand taking shots, but if he's throwing shots aggressively, that should allow a wrestler to get in on a takedown better. He's aggressively stretching out his arms leaving everything under them wide open, but I can't get under his arms and utilize any of that free space? And 20% stand up? That shouldn't at all be too high and predictable.

 

This is why this is a strikers game. You have to be an elite striker before you can be a decent wrestler. It makes absolutely no sense. Going 20% takedowns with a sensational wrestler is considered too high. You can sit there and throw 100% head shots and be completely successful but if you shoot 2 out of 10 moves you fail every time. I don't understand it at all.

[tp61503]

Yeah, I was exaggerating those numbers a bit. As far as confidence, he dropped to about 65% after the fight. Is that shit confidence? I always thought 0 was shit confidence and 60 something would be about mid ship. Like maybe a 75-85 out of the 150 possible points. As far as sliders, they were at about 15% takedowns stand up and 40% takedowns in the clinch with 100% FMO. I don't understand how 4 out of every 10 moves being a takedown in the clinch is predictable. I understand taking shots, but if he's throwing shots aggressively, that should allow a wrestler to get in on a takedown better. He's aggressively stretching out his arms leaving everything under them wide open, but I can't get under his arms and utilize any of that free space? And 20% stand up? That shouldn't at all be too high and predictable.

 

This is why this is a strikers game. You have to be an elite striker before you can be a decent wrestler. It makes absolutely no sense. Going 20% takedowns with a sensational wrestler is considered too high. You can sit there and throw 100% head shots and be completely successful but if you shoot 2 out of 10 moves you fail every time. I don't understand it at all.

 

 

 

the fight engine is very inconsistent. i see my granite chin guys getting KOed in 5 seconds, i see my guys who have better chins/ko power getting KOed, i see guys with 90+% aggression throwing very few strikes. I see guys with no TDD but 12 wrestling stuffing every takedown of a fighter with 12 wrestling and 12 TD. I see guys the opposite. Its a little to inconsistent for me but i deal with it just a game after all.

 

improvents i think need made

KO power/chin

Takedowns/wrestling/TDD.

 

there are a lot of factors though maybe i just suck at the combination of training, slider, etc.

 

i will say i dont like sliders having a huge outcome i hate it when i put a lot into training, have better skills/hiddens and get beat because the other manager is better at sliders. That really shouldnt happen (much a little is ok its upsets and such)

[Erik]

Trolling the suggestion forum should be an automatic ban... from the game.. including VIP.

[LanceTempleton]

the fight engine is very inconsistent. i see my granite chin guys getting KOed in 5 seconds,

 

link?