Overeem?

[Guest]

Sylvia has a nonexistent ground defence as proven by Mir, Arlovski, Fedor and Nog all subbing him within seconds of the fight hitting the ground -- he couldn't get Couture off him on the ground either, all he could do was hold Randys hands and try and get Big John to stand him up.

 

Yeah, Randy should be easy to get off you lol. Do you even watch fights? Sylvia escaped Mir's armbar. Mir just pulled hard and it broke. He didnt do anything technically wrong to say his doesnt have sub defense. Thats stupid. He was in a non submission and his arm broke. Normally once your elbow is out you are out. Mir pulled hard and the fore arm broke. Arlovski sub was a fluke imo. Sylvia was in his first fight back from the broken arm and paniced. It was only a straight leg lock. No danger and he screwed and tapped. He even said he didnt want to be out for 6 months again. Also he was on the ground a long time with Nog before that submission. You forgot to mention that he was on the ground with Ricco and Monson. Both ADCC champions and never got submited.

 

 

 

Fedor didn't refuse to fight Monson either, Bodog wanted Fedor vs Lindland so they could sell the USA vs Russia deal (seeing as Lindland had an Olympic medal and Monson is an anarchist), regardless Monson was a joke who Rizzo destroyed despite Rizzo being way past it (to the point where Zentsov who was a complete nobody in Pride knocked him out brutally).

 

 

“It’s a done deal. It looks like I will be fighting Fedor March 3rd in Russia” says Jeff Monson. Oh really. Fact was Monson asked to be released from the UFC because this fight was a done deal. He just lost to Sylvia and asked to be released and they did. Bodog already commited to the fight. BUt as we know when it come to get Fedor and M-1 to agree on the fight they didnt accept it. Your theory about Lindland being an Olympian is retarded. The event had no press and there was nothing glorious about a HW fighting a Middle weight. As we saw many times this was one of many times Fedor took the easy way out. Monson fougth Rizzo twice and both fights were close fights. Especially the one you mentioned. It was a war and Monson stood and banged with him for 3 rounds. Fedor ducked him and you can twist it however you want. You try to make it look like Monson wasnt a threat back then but he was. HE was able to submit Sergei a few years later like he was nothing. But Fedor refused to fight him until Monson was 40 years old and to slow to close the distance on him and get him down.

 

 

Arlovski got taken down repeatedly by O'Brien, a blown up LHW who wasn't any good even in his own weight class, Arlovski was a decent kickboxer with shitty defence and a weak ground game.

 

 

O'Brien was a College wrestler. Thats what happens when anyone with potential of all styles is welcome in the UFC. Young wrestlers get in and can be a problem for less rounded strikers. Something Cro Cop didnt have to worry about. Why he could get by with his pure striking and why it dont fly in the UFC. Needless to say if the best wrestler in the UFC was a 40 year old Mark Coleman with destroyed knees. I dont think Arlovski would ever have gotten taken down.

 

 

Pride didn't have any wrestlers because there wasn't a single HW wrestler who was competitive from 2003 (when Rodriguez, the last remaining top HW wrestler -- given Randy had dropped to 205 and Kerr had fucked himself over -- fucked himself up with drugs, partying and a shitty work ethic) until Velasquez showed up which was well after Pride ceased operations.

 

There wasnt a lot of wrestlers that were high level. But there were guys who were top fighters who were decent in takedowns. Hell a Ginzaga would be a Olympian compared to what they had. By watching the fights you would think Heath Herring was a NCAA champion. BUt he has no wrestling and cant stop a takedown. I would have accepted a fat BJJ guy compared to what they had. Hell Schuab, Nelson, Gonzaga, and Kongo all took him down. Its not like any of them are NCAA wrestlers. This was the invincible takedown defense that Pride sold us? LULZ!!!

[Erik]

Yeah, Randy should be easy to get off you lol. Do you even watch fights? Sylvia escaped Mir's armbar. Mir just pulled hard and it broke. He didnt do anything technically wrong to say his doesnt have sub defense. Thats stupid. He was in a non submission and his arm broke. Normally once your elbow is out you are out. Mir pulled hard and the fore arm broke. Arlovski sub was a fluke imo. Sylvia was in his first fight back from the broken arm and paniced. It was only a straight leg lock. No danger and he screwed and tapped. He even said he didnt want to be out for 6 months again. Also he was on the ground a long time with Nog before that submission. You forgot to mention that he was on the ground with Ricco and Monson. Both ADCC champions and never got submited.

 

Ricco's skills didn't even hold up a year later at ADCC against a 170 pound fighter lol.

 

http://i34.tinypic.com/24q8dit.jpg

 

And Monson was badly gassed by the time they hit the ground and wasn't exactly known for subbing people anyway.

 

 

“It’s a done deal. It looks like I will be fighting Fedor March 3rd in Russia” says Jeff Monson. Oh really. Fact was Monson asked to be released from the UFC because this fight was a done deal. He just lost to Sylvia and asked to be released and they did. Bodog already commited to the fight. BUt as we know when it come to get Fedor and M-1 to agree on the fight they didnt accept it. Your theory about Lindland being an Olympian is retarded. The event had no press and there was nothing glorious about a HW fighting a Middle weight. As we saw many times this was one of many times Fedor took the easy way out. Monson fougth Rizzo twice and both fights were close fights. Especially the one you mentioned. It was a war and Monson stood and banged with him for 3 rounds. Fedor ducked him and you can twist it however you want. You try to make it look like Monson wasnt a threat back then but he was. HE was able to submit Sergei a few years later like he was nothing. But Fedor refused to fight him until Monson was 40 years old and to slow to close the distance on him and get him down

 

Sergei showed up looking like he didn't even bother to train, plus his ground game was always weaker than Fedors. Also lol at either of the Rizzo vs Monson fights being close; Monson got mauled both times and couldn't land anything worth a fuck on a badly badly decayed Rizzo. Monson was never any good under rules where people were allowed to move away from him.

 

 

O'Brien was a College wrestler. Thats what happens when anyone with potential of all styles is welcome in the UFC. Young wrestlers get in and can be a problem for less rounded strikers. Something Cro Cop didnt have to worry about. Why he could get by with his pure striking and why it dont fly in the UFC. Needless to say if the best wrestler in the UFC was a 40 year old Mark Coleman with destroyed knees. I dont think Arlovski would ever have gotten taken down.

 

Randleman and Coleman (with shoes especially), even at 35-40 are still light years ahead of O'Brien. O'Brien's sole skill in MMA is diving head first into guillotine chokes.

 

 

There wasnt a lot of wrestlers that were high level. But there were guys who were top fighters who were decent in takedowns. Hell a Ginzaga would be a Olympian compared to what they had. By watching the fights you would think Heath Herring was a NCAA champion. BUt he has no wrestling and cant stop a takedown. I would have accepted a fat BJJ guy compared to what they had. Hell Schuab, Nelson, Gonzaga, and Kongo all took him down. Its not like any of them are NCAA wrestlers. This was the invincible takedown defense that Pride sold us? LULZ!!!

 

Gonzaga was passed up for Werdum by Pride because he had shitty cardio, a glass jaw and was worse at damn near everything. Here's what Gonzaga's fights would've looked like in Pride: early takedown, get stuck in guard, achieve nothing, gas out around the 6 minute mark of the opening round, get TKO.

[Guest]

Gonzaga would have been Open Weight Grand Prix Champion haha. I'm not saying Gonzaga didn't have his weakness or bad match ups. But he would have murdered Barnett and Cro Cop at any point.

[Guest]

You are naming guys who had tons of fights and beat big names and lost when no one was close to them or everyone around them lost. What do you do? Drop Cain below Overeem who only beat the guy Cain already beat? Cain was #1 and fell to #2. Cain is unboubtly one of the top 5 fighters and can match up with anyone. Hunt could only have a chance with 25% of the fighters. HE litterally couldnt face any wrestling based or high level BJJ fighter. I dont see how you even mention the two in the same sentence.

 

 

Hunt should have never been ranked to begin with and when he lost the way he did it should have told everyone that he didnt belong. We know Chael is one of the best at 185. Yeah he is inconsistant. BUt he beats everyone in the rankings behind him. The ones who have caught him or could catch him in a sub cant win enough to be in the rankings. If there was 10 Damian Maia's behind him yeah he should drop behind them. BUt not when it is guys he has beat or would easily beat.

 

 

Look at the excuses. IT wasnt in 2000. Cro Cop won the 2006 Open Weight Grand Prix. He was the same dman over rated fighter proven so 7 months later when he was smashed out of the UFC. His skills would have never succeeded in the UFC. Never!!!!

 

 

Like I said it was 2000 there where no that kinda talant fighter there is now so Hunt was ranked the same in PRIDE.

 

 

Hunt was on 5 fight winning streak winning Wanderlei and Crocop why he should not be ranked?

 

 

He won the same tournament where competed guys like Overeem Werdum Barnett Nogueira Hunt Wanderlei !? Except from Wanderlei these 4 are top 10 ranked HW NOW. SO I cant see why your saying that he sux.

[Guest]

Forgot to add.... Ricco's BJJ was still good enough to make Big Nogs game useless.

[Guest]

COne on! Now you want to give Him credit and ranking for people he never beat only because they were in the same tournament? I guess that makes Steve Jennom #1 fighter ever. He won the tournament that had Royce and Ken in it. Who cares if he never actually beat any of them or anyone.

 

Also love how you think beating a 205 fighter should move you up the HW ranks. Sound logic there. Why fight any HWs at all?

[Guest]

COne on! Now you want to give Him credit and ranking for people he never beat only because they were in the same tournament? I guess that makes Steve Jennom #1 fighter ever. He won the tournament that had Royce and Ken in it. Who cares if he never actually beat any of them or anyone.

 

Also love how you think beating a 205 fighter should move you up the HW ranks. Sound logic there. Why fight any HWs at all?

 

That was openweight tournament so cant blame him if 205 pounders win 265 and fight him but I dont give him only credit for winning tournament before and after that he was beating some top guys.

 

And yout guy Jennon was put in final but Ken and Royce dropped out do the injurey that why I didnt mention Fedor in PRIDE gp because he also dropped out do to the injury.

[Guest]

I don't know how to make it auto-skip to 4 minutes 40 seconds, so just skip there. I loved Pride. I have never been to a UFC even when Silva fought Franklin in my home town, but I have been to Pride. It was painfully obvious they fixed fights, had Yakuza running things behind the scene, became popular mainly due to their pro-wrestling base, and hand picking of champions. Not every fight was fixed, but enough were to place serious doubt on anyone who strung together any significant number of wins. Even the fans knew it, but due to Pride's pro-wrestling influence the fans did not care. They expected it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPZrUpDkws4&feature=related

 

Listen the same video at 9:40 and you will get some anwears fast

[Erik]

Gonzaga would have been Open Weight Grand Prix Champion haha. I'm not saying Gonzaga didn't have his weakness or bad match ups. But he would have murdered Barnett and Cro Cop at any point.

 

Gonzaga would've gassed 6 minutes in and got knocked the fuck out. Pride rounds would've exposed his shitty cardio even more than it already was in the UFC.

[Eveas]

Listen the same video at 9:40 and you will get some anwears fast

You mean the part where he says, "My long term memory is impeccable."? Go watch 50 first dates. I am too lazy right now to explain it to you. Goodridge is a sad story of what can happen to brawlers when people just want exciting fights. The funny thing is he says he wouldn't change a thing. The guy is a warrior.

[Guest]

You mean the part where he says, "My long term memory is impeccable."? Go watch 50 first dates. I am too lazy right now to explain it to you. Goodridge is a sad story of what can happen to brawlers when people just want exciting fights. The funny thing is he says he wouldn't change a thing. The guy is a warrior.

 

No the part where he say he have brain damage. I kinda love that all these guy who talks about fixed fights in PRIDE always say that they havent done it.

[Eveas]

No the part where he say he have brain damage. I kinda love that all these guy who talks about fixed fights in PRIDE always say that they havent done it.

Anyone who has had a concussion has some form of brain damage. It doesn't mean someone is stupid. It only means there has been damage to some part of the brain be it mild or severe. He is a sad case where it effected the part of his brain that controls short term memory. It is not the same part that effects long term memory. He is an intelligent man who is not discredited in the least by the medical repercussions of a lifetime in the sport. Many of the fighters from Pride have similar stories as you just admitted. Colman has all but admitted he took the money as well. I would take the word of guys who were there in the middle of it over anyone else every time. Maybe he took the money, and maybe he didn't. The consistent theme across all the fighters coming out is that Pride was giving them the option to in the 1st place.

[Guest]

Lol it's a good way to kill your career. If you admit to fake fights people stop trusting any of your fights. Promotions refuse to be involved with you as it kills their credibility. Also admiring to works would kill his chance it work in Japan as a pro wrestler where they pretend it is real like 1980s WWF.

 

Then you have some guys who are nOt aware. Lots of times only one guy knows or is told what to do. Maybe the other guy isn't in on it. I can't remember any Goodrich fight that was suspect off top of my head but that doesn't mean his opponent didnt come in and take a beating on purpose or take a dive. He fought a few pro wrestlers. People need to realize a fake fight doesn't mean you don't get hit. It means you didn't try to win and lost on purpose.

[Guest]

You are naming guys who had tons of fights and beat big names and lost when no one was close to them or everyone around them lost. What do you do? Drop Cain below Overeem who only beat the guy Cain already beat? Cain was #1 and fell to #2. Cain is unboubtly one of the top 5 fighters and can match up with anyone. Hunt could only have a chance with 25% of the fighters. HE litterally couldnt face any wrestling based or high level BJJ fighter. I dont see how you even mention the two in the same sentence.

 

 

Hunt should have never been ranked to begin with and when he lost the way he did it should have told everyone that he didnt belong. We know Chael is one of the best at 185. Yeah he is inconsistant. BUt he beats everyone in the rankings behind him. The ones who have caught him or could catch him in a sub cant win enough to be in the rankings. If there was 10 Damian Maia's behind him yeah he should drop behind them. BUt not when it is guys he has beat or would easily beat.

 

 

Look at the excuses. IT wasnt in 2000. Cro Cop won the 2006 Open Weight Grand Prix. He was the same dman over rated fighter proven so 7 months later when he was smashed out of the UFC. His skills would have never succeeded in the UFC. Never!!!!

 

Oh boy, these Pride vs UFC's threads will never die. Let's just remember who was the champ in 2006...none other than Tim Sylvia...who I personally think Cro Cop would have smashed, and we know for a fact Fedor would kill him.

 

Andrei Arlovski may have been a good fight. Personally I think the HW division of Pride was definitely supreme at the time...Fedor and Cro Cop were heads and shoulders above what the UFC had at the time.

[Guest]

Lol it's a good way to kill your career. If you admit to fake fights people stop trusting any of your fights. Promotions refuse to be involved with you as it kills their credibility. Also admiring to works would kill his chance it work in Japan as a pro wrestler where they pretend it is real like 1980s WWF.

 

Then you have some guys who are nOt aware. Lots of times only one guy knows or is told what to do. Maybe the other guy isn't in on it. I can't remember any Goodrich fight that was suspect off top of my head but that doesn't mean his opponent didnt come in and take a beating on purpose or take a dive. He fought a few pro wrestlers. People need to realize a fake fight doesn't mean you don't get hit. It means you didn't try to win and lost on purpose.

 

 

There are like hundreds of fighters who have be retired at this point why dont these guys say that they where involved in fixing fights?

[Guest]

Oh boy, these Pride vs UFC's threads will never die. Let's just remember who was the champ in 2006...none other than Tim Sylvia...who I personally think Cro Cop would have smashed, and we know for a fact Fedor would kill him.

 

Andrei Arlovski may have been a good fight. Personally I think the HW division of Pride was definitely supreme at the time...Fedor and Cro Cop were heads and shoulders above what the UFC had at the time.

 

 

 

LOL sure the PRIDE hw division was much better look at these rosters who where in PRIDE and who where in UFC ! PRIDE hw still are compiting and high level but UFC hw fighers or are retired or do freak shows.

[Guest]

Oh boy, these Pride vs UFC's threads will never die. Let's just remember who was the champ in 2006...none other than Tim Sylvia...who I personally think Cro Cop would have smashed, and we know for a fact Fedor would kill him.

 

Andrei Arlovski may have been a good fight. Personally I think the HW division of Pride was definitely supreme at the time...Fedor and Cro Cop were heads and shoulders above what the UFC had at the time.

 

 

 

Way to Cherry pick match ups. Ricco not only beat Nog but he would have beat Fedor also. Sylvia wasnt flawless. No one is. But he was good against the people he had to be good verses to get the belt. Just because he couldnt beat Fedor or Nog doesnt mean no one else in the UFC could have. You know as well as i do the A x B x C x A logic doesnt work. I dont know why you are trying to use it. Fedor beat Sylvia, Werdum beat Fedor, Arlovski beat Werdum, Sylvia beat Arlovski. Styles make fights. Plus Sylvia would have beat Cro Cop. Couture at the time would have beat Cro Cop too.

[Guest]

Way to Cherry pick match ups. Ricco not only beat Nog but he would have beat Fedor also. Sylvia wasnt flawless. No one is. But he was good against the people he had to be good verses to get the belt. Just because he couldnt beat Fedor or Nog doesnt mean no one else in the UFC could have. You know as well as i do the A x B x C x A logic doesnt work. I dont know why you are trying to use it. Fedor beat Sylvia, Werdum beat Fedor, Arlovski beat Werdum, Sylvia beat Arlovski. Styles make fights. Plus Sylvia would have beat Cro Cop. Couture at the time would have beat Cro Cop too.

 

He lost to Nog what are you talking about?

[Guest]

http://www.fightmatrix.com/mma-ranks/heavyweight-265-lbs/

 

 

Look at top 10 at this moment 5 guys who compteted before 2006 in PRIDE and only Frank Mir who was at that point in UFC.

[Guest]

Way to Cherry pick match ups. Ricco not only beat Nog but he would have beat Fedor also. Sylvia wasnt flawless. No one is. But he was good against the people he had to be good verses to get the belt. Just because he couldnt beat Fedor or Nog doesnt mean no one else in the UFC could have. You know as well as i do the A x B x C x A logic doesnt work. I dont know why you are trying to use it. Fedor beat Sylvia, Werdum beat Fedor, Arlovski beat Werdum, Sylvia beat Arlovski. Styles make fights. Plus Sylvia would have beat Cro Cop. Couture at the time would have beat Cro Cop too.

 

I'm not trying to "cherry pick" matchups...you said Cro Cop won the GP back in 06, so I said well who was the UFC champ in 06' and it happened to be Tim Sylvia.

 

As a sidenote, I'm pretty sure Nog beat Ricco in Pride, not the other way around.

[Guest]

 

As a sidenote, I'm pretty sure Nog beat Ricco in Pride, not the other way around.

 

Had to google a little and as I understand he is talking about grappling match they had in 2000! Not the MMA fight in PRIDE where Nog out worked him. Guy just bringing up some weird stuff do defende his idiotism next time he will talk about boxing fights in MMA thread.

 

 

Actually Ricco is great example of talant level what UFC had at the time in UFC HW divison! Dominated UFC was dominated in PRIDE and afther that just got fat. Here he is now and actullay is 1 year younger than Nog and now compere at what level the same PRIDE HW fighters are now figthing and where is Ricco losing at?

 

http://cageradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/ricco.jpg

[Guest]

I'm not trying to "cherry pick" matchups...you said Cro Cop won the GP back in 06, so I said well who was the UFC champ in 06' and it happened to be Tim Sylvia.

 

As a sidenote, I'm pretty sure Nog beat Ricco in Pride, not the other way around.

 

 

Cro Cop wasnt champ. So what does Sylvia being champ have anything to do with it? If it was champ vs champ it would make since.

 

 

Who says Nog beat Ricco? Do you always believe what corrupt judges tell you? How about this. My brother the licensed judge felt Ricco won. You happy now? Oh wait, he wasnt the official judge. But neither was Prides. There was no one who made them official. There was no licensing or sanctioning. So in other words you believe the guys paid off by Pride.

 

They met in ADCC and the two fights showed Nog was never going to land a sub. He was throwing them up helplessly with no prayer to win and got beat in every aspect of the fight. Like Joe Rogan recently said about judging. It really comes down to "Which guy would you rather be in the fight". There is no way in hell anyone would rather be Nog in that fight. He was stuck under a guy who complete DESTROYED him 3 years earlier by knee bar at ADCC. Ricco out struck him, out wrestled him, pushed the pace, passed his guard a half dozen times.

 

Judges do not change reality. They can reward MAtt Hamill with the win but we all know who the better fighter is. We know who walked out feeling like a loser and it wasnt JOnes. It wasnt Ricco either.

[Guest]

Had to google a little and as I understand he is talking about grappling match they had in 2000! Not the MMA fight in PRIDE where Nog out worked him. Guy just bringing up some weird stuff do defende his idiotism next time he will talk about boxing fights in MMA thread.

 

 

Actually Ricco is great example of talant level what UFC had at the time in UFC HW divison! Dominated UFC was dominated in PRIDE and afther that just got fat. Here he is now and actullay is 1 year younger than Nog and now compere at what level the same PRIDE HW fighters are now figthing and where is Ricco losing at?

 

http://cageradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/ricco.jpg

 

 

 

 

Ricco beat him in both. Watch the fight and stop being a fan boy. No one who is really a fan of Pride would say Nog won that fight. The judging was the complete opposite of how theyb scored fights. Yes their rules were shaddy and obscure to allow them to pick anyone they wanted. BUt they had set a precedent over the years on what scores and what doesnt. If Ricco wasnt representing the UFC would would have been given the decision. He won every aspect of the fight. Ricco would never lose to Nog. He was just a better grappler. Ricco has never been submited in 68 fights and went against the best grapplers in the world in his MMA fights. More ADCC veterans than i can count. BUt Nog should get the win because he threw up a few lame subs that werent even close as he was getting his ass kicked? Never seen anyone win a fight like that before.

[Guest]

Who cares what he looks like now? Thats what happens when the comp gets stiff and you get beat out fo the UFC rather than feed cans to build false confidense like Nog got.

 

 

How did he out work Ricco? You clearly didnt watch the fight. How can that be if Ricco landed more strikes, possition passes, and takedowns, and sub escapes? Nog got controled and raped the entire fight. Ricco was one step ahead of him the entire fight.

[Eveas]

I couldn't find the Pride fight link, but here is Ricco vs Nog in ADCC. If you guys have more time post the Pride fight and let it speak for itself.