Lockdown Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Imo this was frustrating as hell and shouldnt have happened,hard to figure out what i need to do anymore http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=628933 sometimes it's RNG. everything isn't so cut and dry when fights are put through the tycoon engine, your skills and sliders only increase the odds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I read it all and i agree fully a good old knee to the face will fix the takedown spammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 My guy Aragon lost his title last night to counter takedown, despite being equal exceptional wrestlers Aragon proficient in takedowns and wonderful defence, each missed leg kick equals takedown. So no leg kicks or kicks at all ? Punch body in future. Maybe a restriction on the slider to limit how much takedowns a fighter can go for to make it more realistic. I.e a maximum they can be set to versus stand up. Quite a few issues with that whole post... 1. Wonderful takedown defence - really isn't that good of a defence just because he is an exceptional wrestler doesn't mean he doesn't have sensational or elite takedowns 2. You just got plain unlucky, a counter takedown and dominated for most of round 1 means you lose the energy advantage. Round 2 starts you miss another kick and get countered again (this time not as unlucky as you have given up the energy advantage). 3. For every example people have of counter takedowns being over powered there are examples saying the exact opposite - basically the "it's always worse cause it happen to me" line of thinking. That fight you have shown is 1 out of probably a couple of hundred for that day and 1 out of god knows how many for the week. Do you think it's feasible that you just got plain unlucky? Do you think it's feasible that someone else trying to counter takedown like that got their arse handed to them? Do you think if that fight got ran again using the exact same tactics that you would see the exact same result with a missed leg kick meaning an instant counter takedown? You're a good guy Steel but comments like "so no legs kicks or kicks at all" reek of throwing the toys out of the pram. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Takedowns are fine as is. Playing around with them too much could really screw things up. I would like to see more grinding takedowns that take a few turns to pull off, but I don't need them if it would mess up the system balance we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I don't think I was throwing toys, my thoughts are that maybe boxing these guys is best, and leave the kicks for other opponents, and it was a question, because I was baffled. His punches were landing, his kicks went to takedown, so hence my question. I also realise that it was unlucky that each kick more or less went to takedown, and early on. I feel I would stand more chance boxing, punch to the body and this would delay the inevitable, however the opponent would be weaker in the later rounds and maybe less able to get the takedown. So it that the way forward? Or, I put it down to a little unlucky and don't lean so much towards leg kicks, maybe 80/20 in favour of punches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Punches to the body land at a lower % than legs kicks generally so going that route most likely would have had it end the same way.. Your advantage was MT so I would have played it out the same way.. The first kick lands instead of missing and who knows how it ends.. Any missed strike gives a chance to counter TD.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Ok thanks Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Best Idea I think is hand level, raising it/dropping it, Scale it so against people you expect to spam takedowns you drop your hands a lot further down, and against boxers you raise them, have to fight a nice in between against well rounded fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Best Idea I think is hand level, raising it/dropping it, Scale it so against people you expect to spam takedowns you drop your hands a lot further down, and against boxers you raise them, have to fight a nice in between against well rounded fighters. Someone suggested this before and i think its a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 There only needs to be a solution if there is actually a problem.. You'll find if you read more fights than the one time it happened to you pales into insignificance to the amount of times takedown spamming doesn't work.. I like the example provided where the guy tried 9 takedown attempts to land one - yet in that whole time the one defending the takedowns threw only 3 strikes.. Way to make him pay to for spamming takedowns.. My suggestion would be in that example you fucked your sliders quite badly - quit looking at the engine for excuses for your losses and try changing your sliders up. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I am the dude who proposed the AWESOME change the two dudes above proposed, and I stand by it. If you try 30 takedowns in 3 minutes it would be, a) hugely tiring, more and more so each time, easy to predict and dodge, more and more so each time. I think that stands for ALL mechanics though, mixing it up should be rewarded. @Stu -> I have fighters set to 100% counter strike, for example, and they will resist 20 takedowns and throw like 3 strikes. I could dig that they threw 20 and missed all of them, but they just don't throw them. I don't know which hidden affects that, and obviously it is an issue with my hypothetical fighter, but surely landing the counter strike would get easier with each failed takedown attempt and the takedown attempt itself would get more difficult with each failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 @K-Rad - counter strikes are either successful or not.. The 3 strikes you see are the successful ones the rest are not successful.. There is no text for an unsuccessful counter, so your fighter isn't not trying.. You are aware that countering uses more energy, the higher the counter the more energy you use... So while the takedown spammer is losing energy for his failed attempts you too are losing energy for simply being so heavy on counter.. The more energy you burn through the lower the chances you have of being successful with your counter and the higher chance if he takedown succeeding.. So now join some dots - 100% counter while having a chance of working (albeit a small one) you'd want to be throwing some pretty big heat 80%+ damage and hope you land the knockout blow (pillow fist fighters probably not a wise move) Or You want to get in there first and start knocking some energy off the takedown spammer by being aggressive as your energy advantage increases the chance of him hitting one decreases.. Yes sure there are examples where that doesn't work - no plan is foolproof, but I'd much rather lose a fight here and there because I cop a couple of unlucky rolls. Because the alternative is increasing the odds of losing by having poor tactics against a fighter that is pretty easy to plan for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 i just wrecked a takedown spammer http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=236570 Even tho my guy had TD 6, balance 5 and speed 6, the guy couldnt put me down. And as you can see, he has good takedowns(is that takedown off 8+?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 @Stu - That's a lot of stuff I didn't know, tbh. I figured failed counter strikes were still strikes and would be shown in the total and successful would be shown in THAT total. I also figured it would be the person on the offensive using more energy than the person countering. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle! http://www.socwall.com/images/wallpapers/19713-1366x768.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_Pidasol Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I will add that Mike explained somewhere on the forums how counter works in regards to the actions. There is some debate as to whether every missed action results in an attempt to counter, it will certainly depend on the aggression levels of both fighters etc.. You see examples of this in fights where both fighters are being quite aggressive - counter strike are minimal if not don't happen at all. There is an example of a fight where I have used 100% counter and 100% damage.. I wasn't using counter to avoid takedowns, I was using it to protect Knights chin and it almost paid off.. Notice the end of fight stats how ever single blow in the stand up landed even though I was at 100% damage.. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=616477 Here's an example of where using those exact same tactics backfired very badly.. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=614971 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 There are different strategies to use depending on your fighter. The damage/accuracy slider plays a role in counter/aggression as much as anything, and let's not forget the physical skills involved, the current energy level of the fighters, and other hiddens like confidence and intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotSauce Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I agree, strikers and takedown spammers are far too prevalent in the early stages of fighting careers. Attempting ridiculous amounts of takedowns in such short periods of time is quite silly. In real life, if one fighter was simply just repeatedly spamming takedowns without setting them up with anything else, it wouldn't take a genius for the other fighter to either step out of the way, keep sprawling, or crack the guy with a kick or a knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I agree, strikers and takedown spammers are far too prevalent in the early stages of fighting careers. Attempting ridiculous amounts of takedowns in such short periods of time is quite silly. In real life, if one fighter was simply just repeatedly spamming takedowns without setting them up with anything else, it wouldn't take a genius for the other fighter to either step out of the way, keep sprawling, or crack the guy with a kick or a knee. Dos Santos vs Cain 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think as your miss the same move more and more, the chance of being countered doing that move should increase. Good solution? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDude Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think as your miss the same move more and more, the chance of being countered doing that move should increase. Good solution? I think to reset to original counter chance at the end of the round should be added. There's no reason a fighter should suffer a penalty in the third round for a missed attempt in the first round where both fighters do not have the same reflexes by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 we could work it on a ratio for miss vs land as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think to reset to original counter chance at the end of the round should be added. There's no reason a fighter should suffer a penalty in the third round for a missed attempt in the first round where both fighters do not have the same reflexes by then. If you are trying to do nothing but take me down for the last 10 minutes, why would you be any better at it in the 11-15th minutes and why would I be less likely to see it coming? If we both don't have the same reflexes, then nothing changes, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDude Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 If you are trying to do nothing but take me down for the last 10 minutes, why would you be any better at it in the 11-15th minutes and why would I be less likely to see it coming? If we both don't have the same reflexes, then nothing changes, righ Well, you are going to get spammed for the last X minutes of the current round before a counter lands, but by the third round all the actions missed in the previous rounds have a larger chance of getting countered, punches, kicks, clinch attempts etc... why should you have a better chance to counter all actions because they were missed before. By then you are going to counter the punches thrown to be able to land takedowns. This need to hurt spamming actions only, that's why I proposed the reset as a way to ensure this, but any other idea that helps to hurt spamming actions only is good for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I am not sure I get it. Every action, failed or not, will affect energy levels. If both fighters are tired, both fighters are tired, that will affect success/failure rates. It doesn't affect the predictability of a spammed move. I wouldn't assume that by the 3rd round actions have a greater chance of being countered, it would depend on the energy levels of the people involved. If you've worked over someone's body for 2 rounds and evaded their shots, you'll be fairly fresh comparatively and be able to land more as time goes on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 we could work it on a ratio for miss vs land as well please do. I'm sick of having elite takedown defense being useless strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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