GBK16 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 What you are saying is Counter-Productive If you act as a stepping stone to the top orgs, you will never become a top org. Simply put, all your guys will keep leaving because they expect to only stay with you momentarily while they gain hype. In regards to the whole poaching issue, I find it extremely unethical to contact a fighter who is in contract with another org. If they are unhappy, they will contact you if it is that bad, or they will just not sign a new contract. If you wanna sign new guys, just look for the unsigned guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegroovemonkey Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 No 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 What you are saying is Counter-Productive If you act as a stepping stone to the top orgs, you will never become a top org. Simply put, all your guys will keep leaving because they expect to only stay with you momentarily while they gain hype. In regards to the whole poaching issue, I find it extremely unethical to contact a fighter who is in contract with another org. If they are unhappy, they will contact you if it is that bad, or they will just not sign a new contract. If you wanna sign new guys, just look for the unsigned guys. If you think you're a big org from day one, you'll also never be a big org. It IS a ladder. An org is like a fighter. If you take on Rinky Spider in your first fight, you'll lose. And when you said "if they are unhappy, they will contact you". That's the deal. If you are running Syn for example, whom I believe are always up against Ascension on the ranks, and there's a top Troid fighter on the radar to be signed. He's unhappy and is looking for an org. The major tipping point in that situation might well be a message from Syn a week before saying "We'd love to have you over here whenever your contract runs out man". Fighters leaving after the current manager signed a contract is bullshit all the same. I don't agree with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 it's not the new guys getting poached When did I say it was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK16 Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 When did I say it was? It's the title of the thread duh If you think you're a big org from day one, you'll also never be a big org. It IS a ladder. An org is like a fighter. If you take on Rinky Spider in your first fight, you'll lose. And when you said "if they are unhappy, they will contact you". That's the deal. If you are running Syn for example, whom I believe are always up against Ascension on the ranks, and there's a top Troid fighter on the radar to be signed. He's unhappy and is looking for an org. The major tipping point in that situation might well be a message from Syn a week before saying "We'd love to have you over here whenever your contract runs out man". Fighters leaving after the current manager signed a contract is bullshit all the same. I don't agree with that. When did I say about orgs thinking they would be big immediately? If you set yourself as a stepping stone from Day 1, that is all you will ever be. Sure, you will be starting at the bottom, but you need to have the ambition to be more than just a stepping stone. No org can do that if people just poach 24/7, and quite frankly, being in the org business will get stale if there is a glass ceiling. There is hope for anyone with ambition, just look at MFN this past year, they have shot up and are one of the best orgs in the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's the title of the thread duh When did I say about orgs thinking they would be big immediately? If you set yourself as a stepping stone from Day 1, that is all you will ever be. Sure, you will be starting at the bottom, but you need to have the ambition to be more than just a stepping stone. No org can do that if people just poach 24/7, and quite frankly, being in the org business will get stale if there is a glass ceiling. There is hope for anyone with ambition, just look at MFN this past year, they have shot up and are one of the best orgs in the game. Title of the thread - Poaching: Is this cool? Post: No one's poaching the new guys. Huh? And I bet MFN had to deal with it's fair share of "poaching" along the way. But I bet they didn't get pissy about it and thought "Alright. We'll keep moving forward and eventually, we'll be the ones the top guys want to fight for". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniConor Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 You were talking about comparing places, from the Island to the globe. You said "New guys won't have jets" in relation to be able to move locations, but it's not the new guys getting poached. Does that clear it up or do you want to keep arguing because that's pretty much all I ever see you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 You were talking about comparing places, from the Island to the globe. You said "New guys won't have jets" in relation to be able to move locations, but it's not the new guys getting poached. Does that clear it up or do you want to keep arguing because that's pretty much all I ever see you do That was just related to my own situation when that got brought up. At the top there's no confinements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 just look at MFN this past year, they have shot up and are one of the best orgs in the game. And I bet MFN had to deal with it's fair share of "poaching" along the way. But I bet they didn't get pissy about it and thought "Alright. We'll keep moving forward and eventually, we'll be the ones the top guys want to fight for". First off, thanks for the compliments guys. I truly appreciate it. One thing that I try to do with MFN is to keep the managers within happy. We have lost a fair amount of decently hyped fighters to larger orgs, but on some occasions we get a message back from the manager before they sign with the other org allowing us a chance to match the offer. More times than not, we do match them even if the org probably should save cash and let the fighters walk. I run MFN at a loss cash-wise. I have lost track of how much cash we have lost overall, but my goal has never been about cash. I enjoy building the fighters within our ranks. Without them, we are nothing. After an event is run I always love to see how much the winners grew hype-wise. When a fighter leaves to join another org because they offered more cash than we did it hurts a little bit, but we regroup and move on. An org owner can't control who messages the fighters in their ranks about leaving, but the hope is that if you treat managers right, they will choose to stay no matter what. MFN has a great group of owners who treat us well and my thought is that its because we treat them well. Some very good points have been made on either side of this debate. Originally my thought was that an org owner should never contact a fighter while they are under contract elsewhere and I still feel that poaching is wrong, however now I also agree that if a manager is truly happy where their fighter is at then the poaching attempt will fail making it just a minor annoyance and not something to burn someone at the stake for. Making managers and fighters happy to be part of your org should be every org owner's top priority. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 When i pick young fighters from fa-list, org owners release them automatically when i say that they need at least 6 months training .. Do people realise that all the time one org is raising fighter and then fighter signs to another org. All that hard work what org did to raise Fighter hype gets to another org. Org owners should really think these things when they choose fights, maybe they think idk. If fighter clears whole division and leaves org, its really big hit for org and otherwise really good for another orgs.. Of course fighters crow up. High lvl orgs that arent still top orgs lose almost all fighters when fighter reaches good ranks.. I could do like 10 fights contract, if there would be somekind of rules and somekind of salarysystem that counts salary every few fights, depending on rank/succes. This is exactly how I run my org and I have no problem with it. Any number of managers in here could testify to having a champ in CCF that I either couldn't, or wouldn't pay what they wanted OR they just wanted to up it against the Top 10 for their shot at GOAT status. That's fair enough, I am more than happy to take the pop hit to my division and in stripping belts if necessary - growth is an important part of this game. But fair is fair, they finish the terms of their contracts and we leave as people who satisfactorily met our terms of contract. It's all about negotiation and agreement, just like a real contract. You discuss terms acceptable to you IN ADVANCE and it is in writing, with the relevant clauses as of a certain amount of time - to a certain amount of time - in order for each party to attempt to limit their risk. Sometimes it works 200% in your favour, sometimes it doesn't work in your favour at all, BUT - it is still an agreement you should honour. You entered into it willingly, freely and informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 This thread has been totally confusing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 First off, thanks for the compliments guys. I truly appreciate it. One thing that I try to do with MFN is to keep the managers within happy. We have lost a fair amount of decently hyped fighters to larger orgs, but on some occasions we get a message back from the manager before they sign with the other org allowing us a chance to match the offer. More times than not, we do match them even if the org probably should save cash and let the fighters walk. I run MFN at a loss cash-wise. I have lost track of how much cash we have lost overall, but my goal has never been about cash. I enjoy building the fighters within our ranks. Without them, we are nothing. After an event is run I always love to see how much the winners grew hype-wise. When a fighter leaves to join another org because they offered more cash than we did it hurts a little bit, but we regroup and move on. An org owner can't control who messages the fighters in their ranks about leaving, but the hope is that if you treat managers right, they will choose to stay no matter what. MFN has a great group of owners who treat us well and my thought is that its because we treat them well. Some very good points have been made on either side of this debate. Originally my thought was that an org owner should never contact a fighter while they are under contract elsewhere and I still feel that poaching is wrong, however now I also agree that if a manager is truly happy where their fighter is at then the poaching attempt will fail making it just a minor annoyance and not something to burn someone at the stake for. Making managers and fighters happy to be part of your org should be every org owner's top priority. Great post and completely how I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenFlyer Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 It seems rather naive to think that no communication goes on between people when a top fighter is such a valuable asset. This seems doubly true when there is no oversight outside reputation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Isn't there a difference between contacting a manager and saying you have interest when their contract is up and contacting them to ask if they would do everything in their power to not have to fulfill their current contract such as declining all fights until cut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itakebrides Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 I don get why would you need to poach anyway .there plenty fighters out there to sign .There even managers pming to sign there fighter on a weekly basic so i don't get the need anyway..Good luck trying to poach my fighters in my org.There like well train hoes and i am there pimp.No matter how bad i mistreat or under paid then they keep coming back for more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 This is exactly how I run my org and I have no problem with it. Any number of managers in here could testify to having a champ in CCF that I either couldn't, or wouldn't pay what they wanted OR they just wanted to up it against the Top 10 for their shot at GOAT status. That's fair enough, I am more than happy to take the pop hit to my division and in stripping belts if necessary - growth is an important part of this game. But fair is fair, they finish the terms of their contracts and we leave as people who satisfactorily met our terms of contract. It's all about negotiation and agreement, just like a real contract. You discuss terms acceptable to you IN ADVANCE and it is in writing, with the relevant clauses as of a certain amount of time - to a certain amount of time - in order for each party to attempt to limit their risk. Sometimes it works 200% in your favour, sometimes it doesn't work in your favour at all, BUT - it is still an agreement you should honour. You entered into it willingly, freely and informed. You have an org? Wanna poach Sheen and/or Martel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coton81 Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 You have an org? Wanna poach Sheen and/or Martel? stop trying to whore martel round he has got to be old and decrepid now hasnt he 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'd happily take on any CG fighter, especially the one and only, undisputed GOAT Martell! Send me a PM and it is on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTing Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maybe something should get implemented where when the fighter has 1 fight left or is in last 15 days of contract they can start getting offers from other orgs AS WELL as the org they are currently at. I Like This Idea !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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