Guest Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Gus was beaten by Jones 2 fights ago. And your argument just doesn't make sense. http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/3/4/5469476/ufc-jon-jones-daniel-cormier-i-have-no-interest-in-fighting-you Two months ago Jones said he wasn't interested in Cormier because he hasn't fought any top contenders yet. What exactly changed his mind? I said this in the other thread but I highly doubt a win over an aging, cardio-less 1-4 in his last 5 fights and hasn't fought for a UFC title since March of 2008 Dan Henderson victory changed Jones mind about Cormier fighting a top contender. Yet the minute the rematch with Gus comes up, all of a sudden Cormier is the most deserving challenger? That doesn't make any sense. It was one fight ago. Gus has only faced Manuwa since and Jones has only faced Glover. That is one fight for each of them. If Gus wins another three, then we can talk about a rematch. As for Cormier being a contender: he was rightfully in the mix long before he officially made his drop to 205. The wins over Cummins and Henderson didn't raise his stock, but they were wins. They didn't drop it, either. He was a worthy title contender before fighting either of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Power changes people, any bit of it. And the facts show that since Jones has become champ, he has evolved into a douche bag. The rolemodel straight edge perfect boy image is tarnished, and his true colors have emerged. Fuck Jon Jones, he's a fraud and a bad influence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minark Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 It was one fight ago. Gus has only faced Manuwa since and Jones has only faced Glover. That is one fight for each of them. If Gus wins another three, then we can talk about a rematch. As for Cormier being a contender: he was rightfully in the mix long before he officially made his drop to 205. The wins over Cummins and Henderson didn't raise his stock, but they were wins. They didn't drop it, either. He was a worthy title contender before fighting either of them. It was 2 fights ago. 1 fight ago Gus fought Manuwa and 1 fight ago Jones fought Glover. Not according to Jones. He said himself after Cormier fought Pat. Now all of a sudden After Gus was offered, Daniel Cormier is an Olympic beast undefeated 15-0 strike force champ where before he was a bum who hadn't fought any top contenders. Care to explain that? Also, Jones said himself that he would fight Gus again after Glover. Now he's backing out on that statement? Is he a hypocrite or afraid to fight Gus? Those are the only two explanations to his turn around statements. And Jones is an active champion. If everyone had to have 4 fights before they could get a rematch Jones would be lucky to get one fight a year at this point seeing as he's almost cleared out the division. That's just plain stupid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 It was 2 fights ago. 1 fight ago Gus fought Manuwa and 1 fight ago Jones fought Glover. Not according to Jones. He said himself after Cormier fought Pat. Now all of a sudden After Gus was offered, Daniel Cormier is an Olympic beast undefeated 15-0 strike force champ where before he was a bum who hadn't fought any top contenders. Care to explain that? Also, Jones said himself that he would fight Gus again after Glover. Now he's backing out on that statement? Is he a hypocrite or afraid to fight Gus? Those are the only two explanations to his turn around statements. And Jones is an active champion. If everyone had to have 4 fights before they could get a rematch Jones would be lucky to get one fight a year at this point seeing as he's almost cleared out the division. That's just plain stupid. First of all, I want a link where Jon Jones called Cormier a bum. Secondly, there are easily enough contenders to put 3-4 guys in between rematches. Since the last Gus fight, it would be easy to have 1. Glover 2. DC 3. Rumble (assuming he beats Big Nog) 4. Whoever has been winning in the meantime (Gus, Rashad, Davis, or even someone who isn't on the radar yet) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minark Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Just fought Glover, Rumble has beat Phil Davis only and beating Nog isn't that impressive at this point, Davis got dominated by Rumble who just came back to the UFC and was un-ranked and Rashad has been irrelevant since he lost to Jones. How are any of those guys more deserving than Gus who had an extremely close fight with Jones to the point it was arguable who actually won? And I exaggerated on the bum part but I've already posted links where Jones said Cormier hasn't fought any top contenders and he's not interested in fighting him. Now he's going back on his own words. Anyways, all this is a moot point as he's now signed a contract to fight Gus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockdown Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 I told my buddy like 2 years ago that Cormier would be the guy to beat Jones. I still stand by my prediction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violentpoet Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Finally seems like jbj manned up. Will be great to see the rematch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Just fought Glover, Rumble has beat Phil Davis only and beating Nog isn't that impressive at this point, Davis got dominated by Rumble who just came back to the UFC and was un-ranked and Rashad has been irrelevant since he lost to Jones. How are any of those guys more deserving than Gus who had an extremely close fight with Jones to the point it was arguable who actually won? And I exaggerated on the bum part but I've already posted links where Jones said Cormier hasn't fought any top contenders and he's not interested in fighting him. Now he's going back on his own words. Anyways, all this is a moot point as he's now signed a contract to fight Gus. It doesn't matter if you think Gus is better than those guys. I agree that he is probably a better fighter. The fact of the matter is that Gus has had his shot and lost. Now give others a shot. If he can put together a nice win streak, he can earn another shot. However, you need to go to the back of the contender's list after a loss and re-earn another shot. I don't like title shots being handed out based on reputation instead of being earned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 It doesn't matter if you think Gus is better than those guys. I agree that he is probably a better fighter. The fact of the matter is that Gus has had his shot and lost. Now give others a shot. If he can put together a nice win streak, he can earn another shot. However, you need to go to the back of the contender's list after a loss and re-earn another shot. I don't like title shots being handed out based on reputation instead of being earned.Did you even watch the fight? He was the closest anyone ever was on beating the shit out of Jones. I don't even think DC can get it so close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2014 Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 There's also the added element that DC was/is dealing with a knee injury, so the notion that he's the best possible challenge to JBJ right now is risible. The guy who nearly beat Jones or the guy who is struggling to cut weight and is dealing with an injury? Gee, that's a tough call. It's also ludicrous to argue that the UFC only puts together rematches again and again. Benson Henderson is set to fight Khabilov, a guy who isn't even on the radar yet. They could have made another Henderson versus Pettis fight, but they didn't, did they? They're also giving Werdum a shot at Cain instead of making yet another JDS versus Cain fight. Putting aside the fact that the rankings are subjectively determined anyway, the notion that the UFC keeps having the same guys fight each other again and again is absurd. What there is precedent for, however, is for really close fights to happen again so the ambiguity over who the better fighter is can be put to rest. Look at Shogun versus Machida, Edgar versus Maynard, or Sonnen versus Silva. If two guys look pretty evenly matched, there's plenty of reason to make it happen again, ESPECIALLY if one of the fights involved is a polarizing figure who people want to see legitimately challenged. I agree that the accusations that Jones is a "coward" are dumb and extreme but there's really no rationale for why Jones versus Gus shouldn't happen this year. If Jones had KO'd Gus in a convincing display, that'd be one thing, but that didn't happen. He lost by inches, which is why he didn't drop all the way down to the bottom of the rankings. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMould Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 I agree that Gus vs Jones should happen again, 100% it should happen again because it was a good close fight. I do though however feel DC should've got a shot first. If DC got a shot and won then we've got Jones vs Gus for no.1 contender or Gus vs Jones for title if Jones retained. As said above anybody who says Jones is a coward is an idiot. It's like those stupid football fans who say Ronaldo is shit because he only scored 40 odd goals in a season compared to Messi's 50.... Everybody who's faced Jones is a legit threat and it's really a testament to how good he is that he hasn't been challenged. I'm not a Jones fan boy, I find him cocky and arrogant but I respect what he does in the cage and tbh, if I held a UFC belt for as long as him and was a champ at the age he won the belt, I'd be an arrogant sod to. Anderson Silva is an arrogant SOB and he's on of the most popular fighters Of All Time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 There's also the added element that DC was/is dealing with a knee injury, so the notion that he's the best possible challenge to JBJ right now is risible. The guy who nearly beat Jones or the guy who is struggling to cut weight and is dealing with an injury? Gee, that's a tough call. It's also ludicrous to argue that the UFC only puts together rematches again and again. Benson Henderson is set to fight Khabilov, a guy who isn't even on the radar yet. They could have made another Henderson versus Pettis fight, but they didn't, did they? They're also giving Werdum a shot at Cain instead of making yet another JDS versus Cain fight. Putting aside the fact that the rankings are subjectively determined anyway, the notion that the UFC keeps having the same guys fight each other again and again is absurd. What there is precedent for, however, is for really close fights to happen again so the ambiguity over who the better fighter is can be put to rest. Look at Shogun versus Machida, Edgar versus Maynard, or Sonnen versus Silva. If two guys look pretty evenly matched, there's plenty of reason to make it happen again, ESPECIALLY if one of the fights involved is a polarizing figure who people want to see legitimately challenged. I agree that the accusations that Jones is a "coward" are dumb and extreme but there's really no rationale for why Jones versus Gus shouldn't happen this year. If Jones had KO'd Gus in a convincing display, that'd be one thing, but that didn't happen. He lost by inches, which is why he didn't drop all the way down to the bottom of the rankings. The examples that you gave kind of prove my point. They didn't do Hendo-Pettis again because it was already their second fight. Besides, the lightweight division has been ridiculous for rematches in the recent past. Frankie Edgar fought BJ Penn twice, then Gray Maynard twice, then Ben Henderson twice. Three consecutive sets of rematches for the title. The JDS-Cain example is another one. They didn't rematch it because Cain has already fought JDS three times. In Cain's last 5 fights, he has only fought two people: 3 JDS fights and 2 Bigfoot fights. Weidman had to give Anderson Silva a rematch after a clear knockout. Out of all of these fights, the only one that should have happened immediately was Edgar-Maynard because it was a draw. If a draw happens, you fight again. If it is a close judge's decision, too bad for the loser. Close doesn't count. You don't get a rematch at the Super Bowl for almost winning it. You go back to the start and earn another shot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 The examples that you gave kind of prove my point. They didn't do Hendo-Pettis again because it was already their second fight. Besides, the lightweight division has been ridiculous for rematches in the recent past. Frankie Edgar fought BJ Penn twice, then Gray Maynard twice, then Ben Henderson twice. Three consecutive sets of rematches for the title. The JDS-Cain example is another one. They didn't rematch it because Cain has already fought JDS three times. In Cain's last 5 fights, he has only fought two people: 3 JDS fights and 2 Bigfoot fights. Weidman had to give Anderson Silva a rematch after a clear knockout. Out of all of these fights, the only one that should have happened immediately was Edgar-Maynard because it was a draw. If a draw happens, you fight again. If it is a close judge's decision, too bad for the loser. Close doesn't count. You don't get a rematch at the Super Bowl for almost winning it. You go back to the start and earn another shot. All legit comments here but it still dont matter to these guys 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 It's hardly surprising that certain guys tend to fight each other again and again; it's because they're the best in their respective divisions. However, merely stating that these guys often face each other is not an effective counterargument to what I said before, which is that the UFC does in fact put established stars up against new guys. Simply saying "Bendo and Edgar have fought each other more than once" does not negate the fact that Bendo/Khalibov just happened, that Cain is set to fight a guy he hasn't faced before who had to beat another contender to get the title shot, and so on. Using the Super Bowl as an analogy is even more absurd because MMA is a different sport entirely, that to explain the differences between the NFL and the UFC would just insult the average person's intelligence. A better (but still stupid) analogy would be to compare fighters to NCAA teams that are subjectively ranked like fighters are. If the University of Oklahoma is ranked #2 and makes it to the championship against the #1 seed one year, loses and doesn't lose any key players in the off-season, is OU ranked #25 or less the next season? Of course not, because even though they lost their last big match-up against a similarly ranked opponent, losing alone does not constitute them falling all the way down the rankings. The same is true with UFC fighters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Using the Super Bowl as an analogy is even more absurd because MMA is a different sport entirely, that to explain the differences between the NFL and the UFC would just insult the average person's intelligence. A better (but still stupid) analogy would be to compare fighters to NCAA teams that are subjectively ranked like fighters are. If the University of Oklahoma is ranked #2 and makes it to the championship against the #1 seed one year, loses and doesn't lose any key players in the off-season, is OU ranked #25 or less the next season? Of course not, because even though they lost their last big match-up against a similarly ranked opponent, losing alone does not constitute them falling all the way down the rankings. The same is true with UFC fighters. This! The difference between standings and rankings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ens189 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I thought it was hilarious and well thought out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I hope you aren't using the absurd NCAA football rankings as justification for absurd UFC matchmaking. The NCAA is moving towards a playoff system specifically to avoid bullshit rankings and to make it mandatory to win several consecutive games to get a shot at a championship. I'll give you that team sports are different in that there is one championship per year, not a challenge system like combat sports, but I still want title shots given out based on wins and losses, not on who has the most famous name. Your big example was Bendo-Khabilov, which was not a title fight. Beyond that, I understand your point. It is not the exact same two people time after time, but people who lose title fights are frequently given another shot immediately or within one fight, as evidenced by the examples that I gave before. Perhaps Gus is the best LHW without the belt. However, that is not the point. The title shot should go to the guy who earned it by winning, not the guy who people simply think is good. I know you don't like the comparisons to other sports, but sometimes the best team loses in the quarterfinals or semifinals. They don't get a shot at the championship merely by being the best. I want MMA to be the same. You get your shot by winning. If you lose, go win again and get another shot through winning. There are flaws with a tournament system like Bellator has, so I am not suggesting that, but we could at least have 4-man eliminators to determine title shots instead of this bullshit concept of simply giving a shot to whichever fight will make the most money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 I said that the NCAA analogy was stupid. It's just less stupid than your Super Bowl analogy. The point of the dumb analogy still stands, though, because you're acting like Gus somehow went from #2 in the LHW division to the bottom of the rankings just because he lost to Jones, and is therefore only getting a rematch because of his "famous name" or because people think he is good. If Jones beat Gus in a convincing fashion, your argument would make sense. However, Jones did not and thus your argument does not. Jones barely beat Gus and had to take the fight to decision. Even then there are people who still think Gus won the fight. Now, you may disagree with those people. But no one can deny that Gus put up the greatest challenge to Jones hitherto witnessed in Jones' reign. It was a great fight. And because Jones is a dislikable jerk, there are indeed many UFC fans who want to see a rematch because they want Jones to lose. There is every reason in the world to make this fight, from the hype surrounding it to the fact that the last one was an instant classic. Having each fighter re-prove themselves in some sort of ladder system is wholly unrealistic because, shockingly, combart sports takes a lot out of fighters, to say nothing of how grueling the training camps are. If every fighter had to fight everyone else in his or her division just to get a title shot, title fights would be exceedingly rare, and fighters would be so worn out and broken their fights would be of dubious value anyway. Besides, it's insane to think that if a fighter puts in an amazing performance against the best pound-for-pound fighter in the promotion but comes up a little short on the judge's scorecards then he goes all the way down to #10 or #20 or #35 or what-have-you, while some guy who just happens to be on a hot streak gets a title shot, only to be shuffled all the way down the rankings when he loses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 If Jones was selfish, he would take the easy Gus fight, cash the big pay check, and move on. Instead, he is wanting to challenge himself against the best, regardless of what the UFC or the fans want. http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/077/103/jonesgus_original.jpg?1379874372 Oh yes, the easy Gus fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Personally I'd like to see Jon Jones vs Anthony Johnson. I think Rumble would rock his world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 I said that the NCAA analogy was stupid. It's just less stupid than your Super Bowl analogy. The point of the dumb analogy still stands, though, because you're acting like Gus somehow went from #2 in the LHW division to the bottom of the rankings just because he lost to Jones, and is therefore only getting a rematch because of his "famous name" or because people think he is good. I think you are taking what I said about going back to the start far too literally. I said that he should have to go back to the start, but that doesn't literally mean the bottom of the MMA world. He is still a top 5 LHW and deserves to be ranked as such. He should be getting fights against other top 10 LHW fighters in order to earn another title shot. If Jones beat Gus in a convincing fashion, your argument would make sense. However, Jones did not and thus your argument does not. Jones barely beat Gus and had to take the fight to decision. You have missed the majority of my point. In sports, the whole point is to win. Whether you lose by one point and one thousand points, it is equal to one loss and should be treated the same. There are no "degrees of losing". It was a great fight. And because Jones is a dislikable jerk, there are indeed many UFC fans who want to see a rematch because they want Jones to lose. There is every reason in the world to make this fight, from the hype surrounding it to the fact that the last one was an instant classic. Who cares what the fans want to see? This isn't WWE where we should be putting people into fights based on how much money it will make or how many fans want to see it. It should be based on who has won their way into a championship and who hasn't. Guys like Sonnen, Edgar, and now Gus are getting undeserved title shots because the fans like them, while there are deserving guys like Dong Hyun Kim who can't even get a big name fight simply because he isn't a fan favorite. Having each fighter re-prove themselves in some sort of ladder system is wholly unrealistic because, shockingly, combart sports takes a lot out of fighters, to say nothing of how grueling the training camps are. If every fighter had to fight everyone else in his or her division just to get a title shot, title fights would be exceedingly rare, and fighters would be so worn out and broken their fights would be of dubious value anyway. What about the other worthy challengers who are forced to miss their turns in the rotation because Gus jumped to the front of the line? DC is getting screwed again. He earned a shot against JDS, but JDS was given Cain again, so DC was forced down to LHW. Now he has earned a LHW shot, but it is being given to Gus. The dude is 15-0 against seriously tough competition and the title shot is going to a guy on a one fight winning streak. In the lightweight division there was a stretch of THREE YEARS where the only people involved in title fights were BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, Gray Maynard, and Ben Henderson. What about all the other lightweights who earned their shots and never got them, or had to wait years for them? Besides, why do you think Gus would be so broken down after three fights against other guys? I'm not saying he has to fight them all in one day. It would take a year or a year and a half to get back to title contention. Title shots are too hard to get to allow a small handful of guys to dominate the scene for years at a time. Besides, it's insane to think that if a fighter puts in an amazing performance against the best pound-for-pound fighter in the promotion but comes up a little short on the judge's scorecards then he goes all the way down to #10 or #20 or #35 or what-have-you, while some guy who just happens to be on a hot streak gets a title shot, only to be shuffled all the way down the rankings when he loses. I never said he should go to #35. If he loses, he is still near the top of the rankings, but he needs a winning streak for a title shot. The title shot goes to the guy who earns it with wins, not necessarily "the best fighter". We could determine the best fighter by watching them train if we wanted to. However, this is sports, where you earn things by winning and they slip away when you lose. Losing by an inch is the same as losing by a mile in sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/077/103/jonesgus_original.jpg?1379874372 Oh yes, the easy Gus fight. If someone fucks up Jones' foot before this fight, then this might happen again. Otherwise, it will be the easy fight. He'll take Gus down repeatedly and cut him up with elbows. People think Gus is some sort of superman because he was able to hang with a guy fighting on one foot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minark Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 NexusX is the re-incarnation of Brainsmasher. I'm definitely convinced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Didnt they both leave the hospital the same night with no injuries or broken bones? Its sad they look like better friends than this thread made everybody lol,just wait for the damn fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nenad Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 I hate jon jones because he is jon jones! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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