Conspiracy Theorist

[vellum]

No worries but Now I have to find out more

[Grasman]

No worries but Now I have to find out more

That's the spirit

[Caleb613]

I love reading this thread :') I read an article about DMT being injected into humans involuntarily and it altering our perceptions on life.

 

Watch the film DMT:The spirit molecule it's great.

 

I'll try to fine the article when I get back from work

[gwad12345]

Sure, but,

In your eyes, is this "path" i provided, "misinterpreting coincidences and making connections where they don't exist"?

 

If so, explain you opinion please.

 

You have only made "general statements" on conspiracies and those presenting them, but not countered anything material.

 

Have you actually looked into this, or do you just skate over "stuff like this", ignoring it completely?

 

How does a common Afghan interpreter of failed negotiations, rise to become the president of a country in only 6 years?

That's some speedy career process.

 

But, all that's irrelevant right?.....

 

Arguing against conspiracy theories is really pretty boring isnt it? I don't have the luxury of being as creative and original. That is just nature of the argument.

 

All I can really say is that yes, the "path" you describe is only made through making connections where none exist. Also, Karzai was never a part of those negotiations, that is misinformation.

[Grasman]

 

Arguing against conspiracy theories is really pretty boring isnt it? I don't have the luxury of being as creative and original. That is just nature of the argument.

 

All I can really say is that yes, the "path" you describe is only made through making connections where none exist. Also, Karzai was never a part of those negotiations, that is misinformation.

Yes, it is quite boring.

+1 for that comment

[gwad12345]

Yes, it is quite boring.

+1 for that comment

Which again has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the argument. Also your assertion that Karzai was a part of those negotiations is not true.

[Guest]

White supremacists have attacked this new theory, they cling onto the old one

That makes no sense though. The old theory gives Ashkenazi jews a (however flimsy) claim on Israel while the Khazar one illegitimizes it while at the same time tying it to a filthy steppe tribe instead of Arab people (who the 3rd reich jerked off all over).

[Guest]

Have a read, Australians know about this but no one else really does:

 

The disappearance of Australian Prime Minister, Harold Holt

[gwad12345]

Have a read, Australians know about this but no one else really does:

 

The disappearance of Australian Prime Minister, Harold Holt

Haha yea I've heard about that. They never found the body did they? Weren't there some theories that he was picked up by a Soviet submarine or something?

[Grasman]

That makes no sense though. The old theory gives Ashkenazi jews a (however flimsy) claim on Israel while the Khazar one illegitimizes it while at the same time tying it to a filthy steppe tribe instead of Arab people (who the 3rd reich jerked off all over).

Agreed, but the reason for it is listed in the long copy/paste

[Grasman]

Which again has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the argument. Also your assertion that Karzai was a part of those negotiations is not true.

The plus 1 was for the boring comment.

 

Well, in this book, and other sources show Karzai as a Unocal Consultant, assisting Unocal in these negotiations.

Where did you read this was "misinformation"?

 

It looks like the you have been misinformed yourself

 

Here is a short extract from the book

Delivering Osama: Af M. Kabir Mohabbat & L. R. McInnis

 

 

http://i61.tinypic.com/r0qan5.jpg

[Guest]

Haha yea I've heard about that. They never found the body did they? Weren't there some theories that he was picked up by a Soviet submarine or something?

 

Yeah, I think the leading 'theory' is that he was met by a Chinese submarine and went off to live the dream. Sounds a bit like bollocks to me

[gwad12345]

The plus 1 was for the boring comment.

 

Well, in this book, and other sources show Karzai as a Unocal Consultant, assisting Unocal in these negotiations.

Where did you read this was "misinformation"?

 

It looks like the you have been misinformed yourself

 

Here is a short extract from the book

Delivering Osama: Af M. Kabir Mohabbat & L. R. McInnis

 

 

http://i61.tinypic.com/r0qan5.jpg

 

The story...

[Afghan President Hamid] Karzai also worked for the oil company UNOCAL as mentioned by the French paper Le Monde: "...After Kabul and India, where he has studied law, he completed his learnings in the USA, where he acted, for a while, as a consultant for the American oil company Unocal, at the time it was considering building a pipeline in Afghanistan."

http://www.jihadunspun.com/IslamUnderAttack/articles/pohk01.html

Our take...

 

This quote is based on a translation of the Le Monde article, so let's start by checking it for accuracy. Dave Kopel has this:

The actual sentence was "Après Kaboul et l'Inde ou il a étudié le droit, il a parfait sa formation aux Etats-Unis ou il fut un moment consultant de l'enterprise pétrolière américaine Unocal, quand celle-ci étudiant la construction d'un oléduc en Afghanistan." Translated: After Kabul and India where he had studied law, he completed his training in the United States where he was briefly (literally: "for a moment") a consultant for the American petroleum business Unocal, when it was studying the construction of a pipeline in Afghanistan."

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

So being a consultant "for a while" shifts to arguably "for a moment" in the original text, but at least there's a qualification there (many sites just say "he worked for Unocal" without clarifying that it was maybe only for a very short period of time).

 

We shouldn't stop looking here, though, because the Le Monde article doesn't actually have any references for its claim. Let's try to verify it by looking at Karzai's biography, then. The article says he went to Kabul, then India, then the US where he briefly worked for Unocal. How does this match up with what we can read elsewhere?

In 1979, while Karzai was a student in India, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Karzai’s family fled to Quetta, Pakistan; most of his siblings soon emigrated to the United States, where they established a chain of Afghan restaurants. Karzai chose to join the guerrilla movement to liberate Afghanistan from Soviet military occupation. Although he was not on the front lines, Karzai was a key planner and strategist and, from his base in Pakistan, helped route supplies to the anti-Soviet Islamic guerrillas called mujahideen.

 

In 1992 Karzai was appointed deputy foreign minister in the administration of Afghan president Burhanuddin Rabbani. Political infighting led Karzai to resign from the post. Meanwhile, the country was beset by civil war as certain mujahideen factions and warlords fought against the new government. In 1996 the Taliban dislodged the Rabbani government in Kābul, reestablishing Pashtun dominance and imposing a fundamentalist regime in most of the country. Karzai briefly aligned himself with the Taliban, but as a moderate Muslim and advocate of women’s rights, he soon became alarmed by the Taliban’s authoritarian policies based on its interpretation of Islam. Karzai returned to Quetta in 1997, joining his father and younger brother in opposition to the Taliban...

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_701610397/Hamid_Karzai.html

From the article we might assume he'd gone off to the US soon after India, but there's no mention of this here. It's conceivable he might have had contact with Americans, but working for Unocal seems unlikely. Especially as the Russians were in Afghanistan in 1983, would still be there for another six years, and Unocal wouldn't be talking about Afghan pipelines for another 10 years at least.

 

We could just say that the original Le Monde article was poorly written, perhaps, and he actually worked for them much later. The opportunities seem slim, though. Taliban representatives visited the US to discuss the pipeline in 1997, for instance, but it appears Karzai had become disillusioned with them the year before, so he was hardly a likely candidate.

 

There are other problems with the "Karzai worked for Unocal" story, not least that both Karzai and the company deny it. Here's Unocals Barry Lane in an interview with Jared Israel:

Jared Israel: ...The other thing that is being asserted everywhere is that Hamid Karzai, the current head of the Afghan 'government' once worked for you.

 

Barry Lane: Yeah. Yeah, well that's probably one of the great urban legends. He never worked for us.

 

Jared Israel: He didn't work for somebody else who worked for you?

 

Barry Lane: No. No, not him. He was never a consultant, never an employee. We've exhaustively searched through all our records to try and find out where the hell that came from.

http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/lane.htm

Several sources, most notably the documentary film Fahrenheit 9/11, have reported that Karzai once worked as a consultant for the oil company Unocal. Spokesmen for both Unocal and Karzai have denied any such relationship.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/afghanistan/karzai.htm

Let's review what we have, then.

 

The original story claims that Karzai was "for a moment" a consultant for Unocal. There's no reference or source to explain how they know this.

 

The timeline as presented in the story doesn't make sense (we've found no reference to him spending time in the US after India, and Unocal wouldn't be interested in the pipeline for another 10+ years anyway).

 

Both Unocal and Karzai deny the claim. No evidence has ever been forthcoming to prove them wrong. (And why not? If there is evidence, why not bring it forward? Catching Unocal and Karzai in a lie would be a far bigger scoop than the original story).

 

Our conclusion: the best you can say about this claim is that it's unproven. More details on sources, at least, are required before we'd take it seriously.

Find better sources.

[Grasman]

 

The story...

--clip--

Find better sources.

Thanks for the links, looks pretty solid at a glance, i'll look into it.

[kenlow73]

I got some, like Kurt Cobain didn't kill himself, Courtney Love did it or The Government got a fax about 911 before it happened but blew it off as a hoax or FDR knew Pearl Harbor was going to be bombed because a lot of the US Ships were out to sea and he used that to get The US into WWII.

[MrClean]

OH fuck here we go now. The term Conspiracy Theory is a propaganda technique. There are a ton of facts that have been lumped into the category along with crazy bullshit in order to discredit them with the masses. In science we learned a theory is testable and repeatable. Seems there are many other definitions now but my point is mainly they dont call it hypothesis theory. It's no fuckin secret except to those who are too lazy to look hard enough. Go to youtube and listen to president Eisenhower talk about it or president Kennedy talk about it. What does every president who has been assassinated have in common?

 

Kurt Cobain probably did kill himself (IMO) but there are a lot of other dead musicians who all said some interesting things. John Lennon, Michael Jackson and Tupac for starters. Who controls the music industry? I was pretty sure Jackson was a pedophile until I saw what he was saying before he died. See the video where he calls Tommy Motolla the devil for more on that. John Todd had some interesting things to say about the music industry. They seemed crazier 40 years ago than they do after watching some of the recent kesha or miley videos. Especially if you understand symbolism and numerology. BTW, If you dont understand those two things you are missing a lot of evidence. If you do then what about the closing ceremonies of the london olympics?

I saw a really interesting interview with Jim Morrison the other day too.

Speaking of Jim Morrison. His dad was Admiral Morrison of the Gulf of Tomkin. (admitted false flag to get us into vietnam)

 

Check out FDR's 8 point plan to find out if he knew about Pearl Harbor or not. Find out when we cracked the japanese code and who ordered the mothball fleet into the harbor and the planes arrainged in circles etc. We could talk about why we carpet bombed tokyo and dropped two nuclear bombs at the end as well.

 

9-11 is a shitstorm that is pointless to talk about as was evidenced in this topic. You are either willing to look into it thorughly or not. If you do there is only one obvious conclusion and that is the official story is a lie. It was covered up by people in our gov. and we dont know who planned it. We do know what came because of it (The Patriot Act, the SS, I mean HS Homeland Security) and who benefitted. It was likely planned before the towers were even built. Did you know that JRR tolkein doesn't know why his book was named the two towers? How could the government pull off something so big? To ask that question shows you dont understand who runs the government. Money does but nevermind that for now. The answer is called the big lie and it was coined by Hitler (or whoever actually wrote mein kampf). I'll post an excerpt but look it up and look up propaganda in general. Read Walter Lippman or Edward Bernaise for starters.

 

From the wiki: A big lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."

 

Find out how many companies control the media and for that matter how many control the beef industry or the seed industry. If 5 companies control the media then there are 5 CEO's or 5 like minded individuals. Who owns the printing houses that print the texbooks? These arent theories they are fact. Learn about the revolving door of Monsanto and the FDA and USDA. Shit, read the history of Monsanto clear up to them buying bee logic or whatever they have done more recently.

 

Anyone who leaves religion out of conspiracy is missing at least half the picture and probably the most important half

.

The printing presses have been owned by those who control the monetary system for hundreds of years so be careful what you consider fact. Everything is just one persons opinion. After a while you have enough opinions to get a decent idea of who is what but then it goes deeper and further back into history and becomes harder to understand. Like the Ashkenazi thing. On that note, check out the city of Astana. Google Astana secrets and start tripping.

Up to a point there doesnt even need to be a conspiracy, Capitalism explains most of it at least for the last two hundred years. Read the Creature from Jekyl island for starters.

Unocal.....who owns unocal? Look into the history of Standard Oil. Then find out who owns it. Then find out who bakrolled that family to get them started and you are back where Grasman told you to go. Who helped start the red shield though? "Let me control the money of a nation and I care not who makes the laws?" This has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years. Of course its a conspiracy but a conspiracy to do what and who is leading it?

[Guest]

http://moocnewsandreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/beaver_lake_dam__open_floodgates.jpg

[MrClean]

OH NO. Look. There's worms all over the floor and I dont know which ones to pick up first.

[vellum]

The reptilians conspiracy by david icke encouraged me to take drugs in my misguided youth. I really wanted to find and take whatever he was dabbling in when he come up with the whole shape shifting reptilians conspiracy

[SpizzEnergi]

I think the Princess Diana conspiracy is pretty interesting. There have been a few TV documentaries on the subject.

 

One of them claimed she was carrying a Muslim baby... Google it... it's an interesting read.

[Guest]

Here is my encyclopaedia: http://www.cracked.com/article_20466_5-conspiracy-theories-that-are-shockingly-easy-to-debunk.html

 

 

a) Kurt Cobain probably did kill himself (IMO) but there are a lot of other dead musicians who all said some interesting things. John Lennon, Michael Jackson and Tupac for starters. Who controls the music industry? I was pretty sure Jackson was a pedophile until I saw what he was saying before he died. See the video where he calls Tommy Motolla the devil for more on that. John Todd had some interesting things to say about the music industry. They seemed crazier 40 years ago than they do after watching some of the recent kesha or miley videos. Especially if you understand symbolism and numerology. BTW, If you dont understand those two things you are missing a lot of evidence. If you do then what about the closing ceremonies of the london olympics?

I saw a really interesting interview with Jim Morrison the other day too.

 

Speaking of Jim Morrison. His dad was Admiral Morrison of the Gulf of Tomkin. (admitted false flag to get us into vietnam)

 

c) Check out FDR's 8 point plan to find out if he knew about Pearl Harbor or not. Find out when we cracked the japanese code and who ordered the mothball fleet into the harbor and the planes arrainged in circles etc. We could talk about why we carpet bombed tokyo and dropped two nuclear bombs at the end as well.

 

d) 9-11 is a shitstorm that is pointless to talk about as was evidenced in this topic. You are either willing to look into it thorughly or not. If you do there is only one obvious conclusion and that is the official story is a lie. It was covered up by people in our gov. and we dont know who planned it. We do know what came because of it (The Patriot Act, the SS, I mean HS Homeland Security) and who benefitted. It was likely planned before the towers were even built. Did you know that JRR tolkein doesn't know why his book was named the two towers? How could the government pull off something so big? To ask that question shows you dont understand who runs the government. Money does but nevermind that for now. The answer is called the big lie and it was coined by Hitler (or whoever actually wrote mein kampf). I'll post an excerpt but look it up and look up propaganda in general. Read Walter Lippman or Edward Bernaise for starters.

 

e) From the wiki: A big lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."

 

f) Find out how many companies control the media and for that matter how many control the beef industry or the seed industry. If 5 companies control the media then there are 5 CEO's or 5 like minded individuals. Who owns the printing houses that print the texbooks? These arent theories they are fact. Learn about the revolving door of Monsanto and the FDA and USDA. Shit, read the history of Monsanto clear up to them buying bee logic or whatever they have done more recently.

 

g) Anyone who leaves religion out of conspiracy is missing at least half the picture and probably the most important half

.

h) The printing presses have been owned by those who control the monetary system for hundreds of years so be careful what you consider fact. Everything is just one persons opinion. After a while you have enough opinions to get a decent idea of who is what but then it goes deeper and further back into history and becomes harder to understand. Like the Ashkenazi thing. On that note, check out the city of Astana. Google Astana secrets and start tripping.

Up to a point there doesnt even need to be a conspiracy, Capitalism explains most of it at least for the last two hundred years. Read the Creature from Jekyl island for starters.

Unocal.....who owns unocal? Look into the history of Standard Oil. Then find out who owns it. Then find out who bakrolled that family to get them started and you are back where Grasman told you to go. Who helped start the red shield though? "Let me control the money of a nation and I care not who makes the laws?" This has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years. Of course its a conspiracy but a conspiracy to do what and who is leading it?

 

You're spot on with your opening paragraph. The only thing that makes a 'conspiracy' is that it isn't recognised by a majority as the facts. Perception is always the key.

 

So look at the rest, not saying you're right or wrong because I haven't the years required to really research, but... there's certainly plenty of 'based on patently false information' in there. Not 'its a conspiracy wrong', just straight out incorrect.

 

a) There is a conspiracy (Illuminati seems to be the favourite) involving music television and symbols and iconography, because... why? What benefit does the conspiring party have in throwing in this kind of identifying symbollism? Better still... why is their target demography the same people who watch Jersey Shore? What is meant by 'understanding iconography'? Does it mean coming to the same conclusions and anyone who doesn't does not understand it? The whole thing feels like face on Mars to me.

 

Cool fact, and the Gulf of Tonkin is still a 'conspiracy theory' for many people simply because they don't know people involved have admitted it was a false-flag operation. The same as Australians are still frequently taught that the USA and South Vietnam asked us to join the war, whereas actually we asked if you guys wanted help, were laughed at, then decided to come anyway.

 

I am struggling to find where Admiral Morrison admits that Tonkin was a false-flag? I can find whistle blowing through the late 60s all the way through to the mid-80s from sources involved but nothing involving Morrison. McNamara admitted to it officially in 2003, but I can't see anywhere that Morrison admits? I did find an interesting theory that Admiral Morrison allowed Jim to be an MK Ultra test subject and music was used to divert the masses' attention...

 

c) There's plenty of evidence showing that intelligence was reported suggesting a Japanese attack. Whether this was willfully ignored, poorly analysed, etc, is up for debate and I would expect those who know are dead and buries.

 

d) & e) Wiki (has sources which you can follow) shows Tolkien knew very much why his book was named "The Two Towers", because he named it that. Originally he wrote a bunch of smaller books, and books 3 & 4 became "The Two Towers". He wrote letters to Rayner Unwin describing which towers, settling on Minas Morgul and Orthanc.

 

The Big Lie... I am not sure it is applicable. Which is a bigger lie? Fanatical religious enemies of US neo-imperialism launch an attack on US soil, or... US Government conspires to launch an attack on its own people on US soil and blame it on fanatical religious enemies of US neo-imperialism? The whole premise is flawed. You have also ignored the key aspects of The Big Lie as a propaganda tool for strategic and tactical purposes,

"The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress".

It is not meant to last forever. It is meant to be used as a means to an end, and you can say those ends (the acts and actions you mentioned) have been achieved yet the State has hardly been using its powers to repress people investigating and reporting. The Big Lie is much more applicable to the various things, like The Patriot Act, being a suitable and appropriate response than it is to the actual originating act.

 

f) I don't think oligopoly or capitalism is a 'conspiracy theory' as such, it seems to be pretty well understood which is why we have anti-trust laws, consumer protection laws, etc. I am not saying they're effective or they limit the controlling powers of Big Industry or wealthy families, etc, but they are recognised as existing. As has the lobbying efforts that go with it, surely no one is denying that corporate has big interest in government and they try to influence it to their advantage?

 

g) Essentially as above. Religion seeks to have people think and act in a certain way. Again I doubt that anyone denies that human nature and the hunger for power and control leaves this open to abuse, whether by individuals or corporations or government or anyone who wants power over people who are not prepared to think critically about things and go on faith alone.

 

h) Spot on about capitalism explaining most things (or communism in those places). However the printing press argument has gotten weaker the further we've advanced through history. Literacy has increased, channels of communication has increased and availability to publish an opinion has never been as high as it is right now.

 

I personally think you've started hitting the nail on the head towards the end of your post. What is happening is not so important as the Why. Once you know the desired outcome it is possible to determine what approaches may be made to achieve it. I don't think the desired outcome is any different now than ever before: Power and wealth. All that has changed is the scope as communications, technology and an increased population now means that you don't control a single industry in a single region, you can control it world wide.

[MrClean]

I see what you did there and I find it interesting.

 

It doesnt matter which hole you jump into they all lead to the same place if you travel far enough.

[BigTree]

This thread scares me. I'm going to re-bury my head in the sand, make a bunch of money, and buy my next shiny object

[Guest]

I see what you did there and I find it interesting.

 

It doesnt matter which hole you jump into they all lead to the same place if you travel far enough.

 

I am not religious mate, I don't take people's word for it, I don't have faith and I need a whole lot of convincing based on primary evidence.

 

As I said, it doesn't mean you're not correct, only that I am not seeing any real evidence for a lot of those claims/theories so in my mind (which I am aware is not a major concern for you or others) they are false until proven otherwise.

[MrClean]

*edit My I see what you did comment is explained by your encycolpaedia. I should have clicked on that a while ago and I would have known why you framed your arguments that way. My bad....and yours for using that as your go to. If you use specific facts that can be debunked that is exactly what you will be able to do. There are a shit ton more facts out there that are usually ignored by debunkers. Dig deeper. Like you said, use critical thinking.

 

What you did was rigidly define some of the things I wrote so you can argue them within your conspiracy theory framework. Arguing terms like Oligarchy or capitalism is irrelevent to me. One form of control is controlling the language. Legalese for instance. Most conspiracy theory's can be shot down when stuffed into rigid frameworks becasue they dont fit there in the first place. There are a lot of terms for that and one is called building a straw man. This what disinformation agents do and I dont have time for that which is why I responded the way I did. Maybe you did it by accident or just to clarify stuff so it could be elaborated on since I didnt frame it that way (on purpose).

 

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. We all have free will to believe what we want to believe. I threw some shit out there and you and everyone else can take it or leave it. I threw it out there so people could have a place to start with some things. The things I wrote about were diverse so I could get an idea of what people who responded knew so I could point them in the right direction if they wanted to learn more. I could have written about a ton of other things or gone far more in depth but what is the point? If people want to learn they will research some of the stuff I wrote or ask for places to look. If they "need convincing" then they merely have to go do more thorough research or continue to live their existing paradigm.

 

I have been there. I am extremely skeptical. 9-11 for instance: I thought the conspiracy theorists were full of shit until I started looking into it. The more I learned the more obvious it was that the official story was complete bullshit. This happened with tons of other things I looked into and oddly enough, the more things I looked into the more things tied together. If you want to learn then you will have to open your mind. You will have to read the stuff you think is nonsense so you get more than one side of the story. We have all been taught what those in control want us to know and until we get past our own hubris and need to be right we will be blocked from advancing our own knowledge. I never gave a shit about religion either but I realized I also didnt know anything about it. When I started to learn about it I found out how much it has to do with everything and it doesnt matter if you or I believe it or not.

 

In reading your response and answering your questions I think you may not have done what i was referring to on purpose so I will elaborate a little. You are wrong about Tolkein naming that book and you can start here http://www.lotro.com/forums/printthread.php?t=485439&pp=40&page=1 It's kind of an irrelevant topic unless you know a lot about a specific belief system though.

 

I didnt say Admiral Morrison admitted the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag. I said it was an admitted false flag. You can research Morrisons involvement yourself. My point was to bring up the Gulf of Tonkin and show that he coincidentally had a world famous rock star son.

 

I never used the word iconography but either way there are a lot of things you are missing if you dont know about that. Why do "they" do that? Good questions and there are a few theories on that but not knowing the answer doesnt change much. BTW, the face on Mars is real. It may not really be on Mars but it is really in the media and it is really there for a reason. It ties in with the pyramids. Did you know about the pyramid's alignment and that there are pyramids with the same alignment in China as well as allegedly on mars near the face? Who built them and why are they there? Look into the Pyramid at Giza and you will be amazed at what information is encoded in its construction.

 

Why would there be a conspiracy in the music industry? It's not just the music industry, it's the whole media industry which is controlled by.........you go look that up. In answer to why, its for control of the masses. Like I said, read lippman or bernaise for starters.

 

Pearl Harbor: you completely ignored Roosevelts 8 point plan which was the only thing I directed you toward. In fact, it appear that you really didn't look into much of the stuff I wrote other than a cursory wiki search.

 

The big lie doesnt apply. Are you f'ing kidding me? You just stuffed the big lie into a defined framework instead of critically thinking about what it really means. It never applied more. Someone in this very thread has said there is no way they could have done that it would be too hard to cover up. Well, someone did it and it sure wasnt 19 arabs so I guess whoever "they" are can cover it up. Saying it applies to the Patriot Act is going the wrong direction. If anything it would apply to the whole war on terrorism or all the false terrorist acts but again, defining this is pointless. Its misdirection..