JLP Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Body gassing, ref stand ups...the excuses go on and on. The fact remains, Dustin Douglas is the best P4P fighter in the entire game and has cred to be considered as the greatest fighter of all time. Who's making excuses? I didn't have a dog in this fight. Body gassing is ridiculous though. I don't really have any HW fighters because it ruins the fun of reading a fight when you get gassed on the second or third leg kick and are just waiting for the KO 99.9% of the time. If I had to rank my top ten all time I doubt Douglas would be in it. He certainly is the best guy going right now. Doing it at 35 is impressive as hell. My fighters go into the shitter in their early 30s 9 times out of 10 so kudos to you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludovik Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Just wished I had some time to do a poster for this one. Great card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasman Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Who's making excuses? I didn't have a dog in this fight. Body gassing is ridiculous though. I don't really have any HW fighters because it ruins the fun of reading a fight when you get gassed on the second or third leg kick and are just waiting for the KO 99.9% of the time. If I had to rank my top ten all time I doubt Douglas would be in it. He certainly is the best guy going right now. Doing it at 35 is impressive as hell. My fighters go into the shitter in their early 30s 9 times out of 10 so kudos to you. My 18 year old fast learner creations go to the shitter in their early 30's, while my slow learners, esp. the ones created at 22 (stupid beginner mistake) stay on the top of their game until around 40..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duphus Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 My 18 year old fast learner creations go to the shitter in their early 30's, while my slow learners, esp. the ones created at 22 (stupid beginner mistake) stay on the top of their game until around 40..... The trick is to not hit your cap, that is when they start to degrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man5616 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Me. Takanen by a huge unanimous decision winning all rounds against Bunn De Paiva Santos will beat Hal Jordan some how, though the upset. Bruce Li is going to stop Simon Williams' streak, because let's face it, Winning a shit load of fights in Evil Empire isn't as impressive as a person who has held his own in EVO. I wish Simon the west with an upset, would be cool. KO fight for sure. Antonio will knock out Severn almost unquestionably. I'll give the next one to Rafa Silva Arnie by decision, he has a slightly more polished clinch game than Renzo Machida. Good luck to Eddie clark, he'll probably look to take a decision win upset against Enzo Moretti I think Magneto is going to with by decision, but I can never bet against Tweedle Dee in this game as I've been wrong so many times. I think Patrick McWhiskey will beat Jensen Saint because of the momentum coming out of the last Prijovic win, he's an excited alcoholic fosho. Douglas will make Oath reconsider living in this tycoon world... Again. eat a dick fuckface 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 The fact that Douglas is as dominant as he is while fighting the best fighters in the game during the body gas, counter TD, skill cap era speaks for itself. No other P4P fighter has been as impressive while considering the game is as balanced as it's ever been. Puno, Kane, and some of the older P4P kings were in the sprawl and brawl era. Douglas would have been right with all of them and could have beaten any of them, for certain. Granite chin - check KO Power - 41 T(KO) wins out of 45, check Decently fast learner - check Heart - have you read this fight? http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=565693 - CHECK! Oh, and Douglas has had sustained 2 days of injuries in 55 fights against the biggest and baddest this game as to offer. 2 days ever, and he's 35 years old. Yes, you read that right. While I know I am biased, we tend to think of the old guard as being bullet proof. The fact is, Dustin Douglas could have - would have - beaten any of them. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j666 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 did mike change the engine to "create" bodyrock/body shot gassing? I don't think so... just becuz people didn't employ it as a full bore strategy, doesn't change that it was always there. Douglas is a maniac, no doubt...but don't get too carried away with the "eras"... I mean, u just called those things excuses on a loss, so they need to be considered in a win as well...if ur gonna make that type of statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 did mike change the engine to "create" bodyrock/body shot gassing? I don't think so... just becuz people didn't employ it as a full bore strategy, doesn't change that it was always there. Douglas is a maniac, no doubt...but don't get too carried away with the "eras"... I mean, u just called those things excuses on a loss, so they need to be considered in a win as well...if ur gonna make that type of statement. Just saying the game has always had "glitches." Full counter/damage, leg kick spam, I could go on and on. Fact remains, Douglas should absolutely be mentioned with the best of all time. I didn't mean to diminish any of the successes of the historical best of the best. I just wanted to add a name to the top of that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Just saying the game has always had "glitches." Full counter/damage, leg kick spam, I could go on and on. Fact remains, Douglas should absolutely be mentioned with the best of all time. I didn't mean to diminish any of the successes of the historical best of the best. I just wanted to add a name to the top of that list. Douglas i don't think breaches the top 10 HWs in the game imo never mind the top 10 of all time. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it Douglas biggest win was arguably against Ben Grimm who was Lances #2 or #3 HW i can't remember at the time (Williams and Creel were the other two). He lost his other big fight against Don Marciano. In the past year i think they have been one other killer at HW and that was Creel who beat Kane Williams 2 outta 3 times. You said he was dominant during the body gas era and the counter takedown era/skill cap era (they came about if i remember correctly at the same time). During the body gas era Douglas still had his training wheels on fighting in low/mid level orgs. The dominant guys back then were Victor Creed, Simon Williams and Don Maricano (Empire and Ascension champions) at the end of it. Some may say that is a lot of Convicted dick sucking but i don't remember anyone else in the top 3 for as long as those guys were. Glory, Bokhari, Mjolnir, Puno, Hoi and Bubba all disappeared before the end (all of whom i rank ahead of Douglas). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Why would you rank Hoi ahead of Douglas? He was incredibly inconsistent (or rather I was) and lost to almost every elite HW he fought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j666 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 I agree with tosen...hoi should not be ranked above Douglas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Douglas i don't think breaches the top 10 HWs in the game imo never mind the top 10 of all time. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it Douglas biggest win was arguably against Ben Grimm who was Lances #2 or #3 HW i can't remember at the time (Williams and Creel were the other two). He lost his other big fight against Don Marciano. In the past year i think they have been one other killer at HW and that was Creel who beat Kane Williams 2 outta 3 times. You said he was dominant during the body gas era and the counter takedown era/skill cap era (they came about if i remember correctly at the same time). During the body gas era Douglas still had his training wheels on fighting in low/mid level orgs. The dominant guys back then were Victor Creed, Simon Williams and Don Maricano (Empire and Ascension champions) at the end of it. Some may say that is a lot of Convicted dick sucking but i don't remember anyone else in the top 3 for as long as those guys were. Glory, Bokhari, Mjolnir, Puno, Hoi and Bubba all disappeared before the end (all of whom i rank ahead of Douglas). Dinooo, you're good people, but you sure sound stupid at times. Douglas destroyed Grimm and Creed - 2 of Lance's top HWs. You think Creel and Simon Williams are better? Then where are they? I'll tell you where they are - they're getting beat by fighters that Douglas curb stomped. Has Douglas lost? Sure! Who hasn't? You say he lost his only other "big fight" to Marciano - what a load of shit that statement is. Douglas has fought the best fighters in the game at HW - guys that Creed, Williams, and Marciano have LOST to. Hoi, Bubba, Puno, Bokhari, Glory - they're all great fighters, and they'd have all had their faces caved in by the most dangerous striker the game has ever had. The Rasta Lion - Dustin F'N Douglas. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j666 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Dinooo, you're good people, but you sure sound stupid at times. Douglas destroyed Grimm and Creed - 2 of Lance's top HWs. You think Creel and Simon Williams are better? Then where are they? I'll tell you where they are - they're getting beat by fighters that Douglas curb stomped. Has Douglas lost? Sure! Who hasn't? You say he lost his only other "big fight" to Marciano - what a load of shit that statement is. Douglas has fought the best fighters in the game at HW - guys that Creed, Williams, and Marciano have LOST to. Hoi, Bubba, Puno, Bokhari, Glory - they're all great fighters, and they'd have all had their faces caved in by the most dangerous striker the game has ever had. The Rasta Lion - Dustin F'N Douglas. I def think Douglas would take care of glory, who really took advantage of the 100% counter strategy....hoi, who came up short fairly often, yet a crowd fave due to tosen's superb ability to bring him to life...bubba, altho no one can take a smashing better and if Douglas did smash bubba, bubba wouldn't care. no one in tho game has had more amazing heart than him. but puno, in that era, with relative skills...no way. puno did more with less, largely in part to avon's brilliance... bokhari, I think would be a hard fought one, but really, it's not bokhari, it's davenport. both of these fights would come down to "can soyster out-slider and out-hidden Richard davenport and Avon barksdale?" I'm sure u feel u can now, most people shoul feel try an win any fight, otherwise they've already beaten themselves. I'm not gonna call it either way. it's just the real question at hand wen it comes to those two guys. u beat LT, sure...but he's hardly the best manager in the game, like so many somehow believe him to be. u kno it, as well as I do. he's no chump tho, neither are u, neither are many who lie in ur wake. I'm sure u woul love the opportunity to get a shot at these fights with these managers, but we all kno that can't happen. honestly, it's pretty easy to call out and claim dominance over the past...cuz it's over and there's no going backwards. lol. u kno that as well as anyone...maybe that's why u did it? so we can go on and on...that's the fun of sports. the debate never ends. carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Dinooo, you're good people, but you sure sound stupid at times. Douglas destroyed Grimm and Creed - 2 of Lance's top HWs. You think Creel and Simon Williams are better? Then where are they? I'll tell you where they are - they're getting beat by fighters that Douglas curb stomped. Has Douglas lost? Sure! Who hasn't? You say he lost his only other "big fight" to Marciano - what a load of shit that statement is. Douglas has fought the best fighters in the game at HW - guys that Creed, Williams, and Marciano have LOST to. Hoi, Bubba, Puno, Bokhari, Glory - they're all great fighters, and they'd have all had their faces caved in by the most dangerous striker the game has ever had. The Rasta Lion - Dustin F'N Douglas. You beat a Creed who had been sitting decaying for months... As with all fighters they have their times and in these times of fighter decay we are seeing a turnaround in those fighters who have bad injuries. Your statement well he beat him so that means i could be him... i once seen that chain of thought mean that T.J Dillashaw could beat Jon Jones... sadly the world doesn't work that way you lost to Marciano when you got your shot at him. Just looking through it Ken Oath and Art (who also beat you) is the only fighters on Marciano's L list that you have beaten. Stehling is the only guy you have beaten who beat Creed. Creel went undefeated in 2013 and in 2014 beat the last man to defeat Douglas. Douglas before this current streak was inconsistent. I might have crossed the line bringing in Hoi but i always had Hoi's fights on spoiler and he was going up against some of the greatest fighters and managers in the game. If Douglas continues on the streak and wins his fighter of the year trophy, certainly i would have to put him in the top 10 HWs in the game. As far as Jbomb's opinion on Lance not being one of the best managers in the game... I don't know what more you can do to prove it than win manager of the year two years straight and have a number of fighters in the top 10 of their respective divisions. Hell even just now 10% of the top 100 is a Templeton fighter. I'd really like to see what constitutes in being one of the best managers in the game if that doesn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I def think Douglas would take care of glory, who really took advantage of the 100% counter strategy....hoi, who came up short fairly often, yet a crowd fave due to tosen's superb ability to bring him to life...bubba, altho no one can take a smashing better and if Douglas did smash bubba, bubba wouldn't care. no one in tho game has had more amazing heart than him. but puno, in that era, with relative skills...no way. puno did more with less, largely in part to avon's brilliance... bokhari, I think would be a hard fought one, but really, it's not bokhari, it's davenport. both of these fights would come down to "can soyster out-slider and out-hidden Richard davenport and Avon barksdale?" I'm sure u feel u can now, most people shoul feel try an win any fight, otherwise they've already beaten themselves. I'm not gonna call it either way. it's just the real question at hand wen it comes to those two guys. u beat LT, sure...but he's hardly the best manager in the game, like so many somehow believe him to be. u kno it, as well as I do. he's no chump tho, neither are u, neither are many who lie in ur wake. I'm sure u woul love the opportunity to get a shot at these fights with these managers, but we all kno that can't happen. honestly, it's pretty easy to call out and claim dominance over the past...cuz it's over and there's no going backwards. lol. u kno that as well as anyone...maybe that's why u did it? so we can go on and on...that's the fun of sports. the debate never ends. carry on. The game needs some banter - some hype talk so to speak. That was my reason. Would I like to toss Douglas into the cage with Puno or Bokhari - absolutely! And while it's not something that can happen anymore, I can sure talk about how I'd have lead Douglas into each of those fights knowing I had the best fighter on the planet in my corner. I get how we're all nostalgic, and that's great, but let's face some facts for a minute: Bokhari had 21 wins in his career - 14 by (T)KO and 7 by Dec. He also won many of his fights in 2010 and 2011 - a different time for sure. A time when - as we've discussed previously - managers didn't have private gyms and 170 supplements. Puno had 34 wins, yet only 16 came by way of (T)KO with 8 subs mixed in. While DInooo talked about Douglas' inconsistencies, how can we overlook Puno's? During one stretch in the prime of his career, he went 9-6 against some of the better HW's in the game at that time. For most of his career, I'd say he actually lost to more of the "better competition" than he beat. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=211815 A Purple belt vs a "decent wrestler." Now tell me the last time you say a top tier fight with those ToTT pops. During this era of everyone being quad elite or close to it, Dustin Douglas is 45-10 with 41 (T)KO wins. In other words, better than 9 of every 10 opponents are finished. Further, 32 of the 41 finishes have been outright KOs. KTFO KOs. 32 of 41!!!! We can debate all day, but the bottom line is this - you show me a fighter with the track record Douglas has and I'll concede. Until then, I proclaim Dustin Douglas to be the best fighter this game has ever had. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Jon Hess. You fucking ninny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 The game needs some banter - some hype talk so to speak. That was my reason. Would I like to toss Douglas into the cage with Puno or Bokhari - absolutely! And while it's not something that can happen anymore, I can sure talk about how I'd have lead Douglas into each of those fights knowing I had the best fighter on the planet in my corner. I get how we're all nostalgic, and that's great, but let's face some facts for a minute: Bokhari had 21 wins in his career - 14 by (T)KO and 7 by Dec. He also won many of his fights in 2010 and 2011 - a different time for sure. A time when - as we've discussed previously - managers didn't have private gyms and 170 supplements. Puno had 34 wins, yet only 16 came by way of (T)KO with 8 subs mixed in. While DInooo talked about Douglas' inconsistencies, how can we overlook Puno's? During one stretch in the prime of his career, he went 9-6 against some of the better HW's in the game at that time. For most of his career, I'd say he actually lost to more of the "better competition" than he beat. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=211815 A Purple belt vs a "decent wrestler." Now tell me the last time you say a top tier fight with those ToTT pops. During this era of everyone being quad elite or close to it, Dustin Douglas is 45-10 with 41 (T)KO wins. In other words, better than 9 of every 10 opponents are finished. Further, 32 of the 41 finishes have been outright KOs. KTFO KOs. 32 of 41!!!! We can debate all day, but the bottom line is this - you show me a fighter with the track record Douglas has and I'll concede. Until then, I proclaim Dustin Douglas to be the best fighter this game has ever had. Puno fought through the 100% counter era, they were a lot more decisions than they were knockouts for any weight class during that time. Now you talk about his inconsistent streak he lost twice to Bokhari and twice to Chigurh, once to Digits and once to Bubba now what do all of those losses have in common? They were against fighters who made it to the #1 or #2 p4p spot, actually every loss apart from Digits was against fighters who became #1 p4p fighters. Now lets take a look at Douglas's losses shall we? Brian King? Sean McMorrow (he was actually half decent though), Congo Ashantie, Art Vandalay and Renzo Machida. I would add Samba to this list but he was on quite a run until Dirk left the game. Marciano was i have said before was prolly one of your top 2 fights. That is a lot of journeymen Douglas has lost to compared to Puno. Better track records i have already named them with Hoi being taken out when you look at the records. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I just wanna point out that Jan Paulsen armbarred Cee Digits so hard noted latino gangster Estefan cried IRL.He's the greatest except Puno is what I'm getting at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Puno fought through the 100% counter era, they were a lot more decisions than they were knockouts for any weight class during that time. Now you talk about his inconsistent streak he lost twice to Bokhari and twice to Chigurh, once to Digits and once to Bubba now what do all of those losses have in common? They were against fighters who made it to the #1 or #2 p4p spot, actually every loss apart from Digits was against fighters who became #1 p4p fighters. Now lets take a look at Douglas's losses shall we? Brian King? Sean McMorrow (he was actually half decent though), Congo Ashantie, Art Vandalay and Renzo Machida. I would add Samba to this list but he was on quite a run until Dirk left the game. Marciano was i have said before was prolly one of your top 2 fights. That is a lot of journeymen Douglas has lost to compared to Puno. Better track records i have already named them with Hoi being taken out when you look at the records. I'm really not sure why you're so hell bent on arguing something that's so obvious. Douglas lost when he had holes in his build. The first fight with Vandalay was a fluke, and Douglas nearly KOd him had the bell not saved him. He then destroyed him in the second fight. The others had great gameplans and beat a completely different Douglas than what enters the cage these days. Above all, saying Douglas isn't a top 10 HW of all time is a joke. He's absolutely top 10 HW, and is top 10 P4P of all time. Either you're just trying to stir the pot, or you're stuck in 2011 and are simply one of those who can't move on and still think Ali was the greatest boxer of all time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I'm really not sure why you're so hell bent on arguing something that's so obvious. Douglas lost when he had holes in his build. The first fight with Vandalay was a fluke, and Douglas nearly KOd him had the bell not saved him. He then destroyed him in the second fight. The others had great gameplans and beat a completely different Douglas than what enters the cage these days. Above all, saying Douglas isn't a top 10 HW of all time is a joke. He's absolutely top 10 HW, and is top 10 P4P of all time. Either you're just trying to stir the pot, or you're stuck in 2011 and are simply one of those who can't move on and still think Ali was the greatest boxer of all time. So a decently fast learner had holes in his game at 28-32? Who do you think you are? Jacky? Who is making the excuses now? Top 10 is all peoples opinions and i have never thought Ali was the greatest boxer of all time, Rocky Marciano was, Floyd will overtake him if he retires undefeated. I am a man who appreciates history in any sport, game shit really anything i like history in. I am not a guy who thinks a flash in the pan fighter who has 7 months undefeated under his belt is the greatest fighter of all time. It reminds me of the guys who said Cain Velasquez was the greatest heavyweight MMA fighter of all time. and completely forgot about guys like Fedor. As you are not so sure why i am so hell bent on arguing something so obvious? I am not understanding why something that is apparently so obvious. I went through the top 10 HWs in the game and after i weighed up everything i gave Douglas a spot in it. When it came to the top 10 p4p ever in the game, i named 10 fighters within 20 seconds who i put ahead of Douglas. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Actually Cain could probably kick Fedor's ass and his strength of schedule is better at this point. And Joe Louis was the greatest boxer of all time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I am not a guy who thinks a flash in the pan fighter who has 7 months undefeated under his belt is the greatest fighter of all time. It reminds me of the guys who said Cain Velasquez was the greatest heavyweight MMA fighter of all time. and completely forgot about guys like Fedor. Douglas has dominated for nearly a year, just that he lost a horrible decision during the run. He's beat the best fighters the game has to offer, and most were managed by some of the best managers. If 11 months isn't long enough, what is? How long was Puno on top? What about Bokhari? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyster89 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Actually Cain could probably kick Fedor's ass and his strength of schedule is better at this point. And Joe Louis was the greatest boxer of all time. Totally agree on both of these opinions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I actually think you're selling Douglas short. I'm gonna be really impressed if you can find 10 heavyweights who are more deserving of the #1 crown than him. There's Puno and maybe Creed. Bokhari was good but not great, GG burned brightly but briefly, Bubba is top 3 for sure, Reed was okay, Hoi was inconsistent, Williams fought in GAMMA, Marciano never had the sustained success of Douglas and I prefer not to think about Mjolnir because he gave me PTSD. Did I forget anyone? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j666 Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 I agree with tosen here. Douglas is outstanding, no doubt, and a lot higher than just top 10. when I spoke of bokhari before, that was for one fight only. I kinda was thinking tho...who do u guys consider to be a better fighter?: a) #1 p4p for a short to moderate time. maybe a consistent top 10-15, when not exactly on the top of the heap? or #2 or 3 p4p for a very long time? maybe a consistent top 5-8 when not exactly on the top of the heap? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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