Changes to Gym needed?

[djparki91]

Thanks Duphus, will definitely help!!

[762x39]

I like the idea of letting people with a private gym open a public one also. I would do that and leave it public to help out, even if it lost a little money. Another idea would be to remove the coach skill point limit and the fee limit from public gyms. That way they could add coaches and raise fees as needed to keep the training good.

 

I do not like the changes to class size, that is the only advantage to guys that don't want to run an ORG. As said earlier by someone, ORGS are money so most either have a gym to train their guys or run an ORG to make money. If you change the class size effectiveness then you can run an ORG make all kinds of money and still get just as good of training as the private gyms. To me that is just another edge to ORG owners.

[juicemalone]

The whole class size thing is stupid. You should be able to have an effective session with 5 or more other fighters in class. That is what makes public gyms less attractive, not pricing or coaches. If you are training with more than 2 total ppl in a session consistently you'll be lucky to break top 1000 p4p with your fighter. That is the truth unless he has incredible hiddens or you are a slider wizard.

[SeanJuan]

I'm going to throw some random thoughts and ideas out there. Not even sure I like them all, but for sake of brainstorming to get the conversation going.

 

Incidentally, I run Toshi in Tokyo. Gyms are the only business I have run so far in this game, and I hadn't realized, but this gym was in the running for the year-end awards. Thanks to all who appreciate my efforts.

 

- I lose money running my gym. Not a lot mind you, and I consider it worth it since I believe the training is great, especially for a public gym. I have several of my fighters training here. Two of them I had actually taken on as free agents to raise the quality of sparring classes, and I got attached to them. Also, similar to the private gym point made earlier, once I got some fights under my belt, money isn't a major issue for me any more.

 

- While this would probably make it harder, not easier, I was really surprised that there is not much in the way of startup costs. Yes, you have to hire coaches, and they have signing fees, but there is no rent or property purchase needed. Should that change? And maybe have it change based on the gym capacity? Or, have the quality of training change based on size? A small cheap gym with a capacity of 60 would have worse training than a large facility with the same cap? Maybe this could be used to offset some of the "loss" from big class sizes.

 

- What if there was an option to treat a gym like a fight team? Some are labeled and sort of run that way (especially the private ones I assume - never joined one), but what if there could be an option for a gym to have a percentage of members purses? This could make running one more lucrative, and therefore make more people interested in running them.

 

- It is hard to go back from your original gym blueprint, and takes a very long time for coach skills to increase. I realize that unless you are training elite fighters, that it is not actually required to have elite coaches. But my gym was set with all elites, because that's what people look for. (Mike, I know you've tried to shake this stigma with The Island, but since the Tycoon economy is out of whack once you're not a noob, this still remains the case). However, since my points are maxed out, I can never hire a new one. My only option at this time to have more coaches (and increase capacity without sacrificing class sizes) is essentially to fire them all, hire more, lesser quality coaches, and wait a very long time for their skills to build. Of course, this will take longer if no one wants to train with them, and a lot of people won't want to pay $1000 for lesser coaching. What if, similar to my rent idea, gym owners could pay an increased fee (rent, whatever you want to call it), to raise their coach point cap. Or, if you want to make it like rent, your point cap is based on the size of the rented facility?

 

- Perhaps included in the last point, but have the cost to replace equipment vary based on capacity/number of members. A larger facility, at capacity, would have more equipment to replace.

 

- What if gyms didn't have to be public or private? Maybe have the option to have certain private sessions for additional money, above and beyond the regular gym fees? Maybe these private classes could have caps set by the owners, and owner-set prices. Then an owner can have a mix of "lesser" coaches and "elite" coaches. Noob fighters could pay less and still get sufficient training, while high-level fighters could spend more for the higher quality, smaller class sized training they require with private sessions. Allowing this, and allowing the cost of private sessions to run pretty high could possibly help make money mean more too.

 

I think that's all off of the top of my head. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts, even though mine weren't all fully thought out.

[Guest]

I'm going to throw some random thoughts and ideas out there. Not even sure I like them all, but for sake of brainstorming to get the conversation going.

 

Incidentally, I run Toshi in Tokyo. Gyms are the only business I have run so far in this game, and I hadn't realized, but this gym was in the running for the year-end awards. Thanks to all who appreciate my efforts.

 

- I lose money running my gym. Not a lot mind you, and I consider it worth it since I believe the training is great, especially for a public gym. I have several of my fighters training here. Two of them I had actually taken on as free agents to raise the quality of sparring classes, and I got attached to them. Also, similar to the private gym point made earlier, once I got some fights under my belt, money isn't a major issue for me any more.

 

- While this would probably make it harder, not easier, I was really surprised that there is not much in the way of startup costs. Yes, you have to hire coaches, and they have signing fees, but there is no rent or property purchase needed. Should that change? And maybe have it change based on the gym capacity? Or, have the quality of training change based on size? A small cheap gym with a capacity of 60 would have worse training than a large facility with the same cap? Maybe this could be used to offset some of the "loss" from big class sizes.

 

- What if there was an option to treat a gym like a fight team? Some are labeled and sort of run that way (especially the private ones I assume - never joined one), but what if there could be an option for a gym to have a percentage of members purses? This could make running one more lucrative, and therefore make more people interested in running them.

 

- It is hard to go back from your original gym blueprint, and takes a very long time for coach skills to increase. I realize that unless you are training elite fighters, that it is not actually required to have elite coaches. But my gym was set with all elites, because that's what people look for. (Mike, I know you've tried to shake this stigma with The Island, but since the Tycoon economy is out of whack once you're not a noob, this still remains the case). However, since my points are maxed out, I can never hire a new one. My only option at this time to have more coaches (and increase capacity without sacrificing class sizes) is essentially to fire them all, hire more, lesser quality coaches, and wait a very long time for their skills to build. Of course, this will take longer if no one wants to train with them, and a lot of people won't want to pay $1000 for lesser coaching. What if, similar to my rent idea, gym owners could pay an increased fee (rent, whatever you want to call it), to raise their coach point cap. Or, if you want to make it like rent, your point cap is based on the size of the rented facility?

 

- Perhaps included in the last point, but have the cost to replace equipment vary based on capacity/number of members. A larger facility, at capacity, would have more equipment to replace.

 

- What if gyms didn't have to be public or private? Maybe have the option to have certain private sessions for additional money, above and beyond the regular gym fees? Maybe these private classes could have caps set by the owners, and owner-set prices. Then an owner can have a mix of "lesser" coaches and "elite" coaches. Noob fighters could pay less and still get sufficient training, while high-level fighters could spend more for the higher quality, smaller class sized training they require with private sessions. Allowing this, and allowing the cost of private sessions to run pretty high could possibly help make money mean more too.

 

I think that's all off of the top of my head. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts, even though mine weren't all fully thought out.

 

I love the idea of renting property, although it could be a bit off putting to anyone that doesn't take the time to fully grasp the concept.

 

Moreover, I like the idea of making gradual improvements to the gym, having to upgrade over time in some way. I don't know what I mean, really, I just like interactivity. Like, you start out with a small corner lot by default with a small monthly rent. As you gain funds and maybe some other form of currency (such as having elite fighters win fights while training at your gym), you can upgrade periodically, I don't know. However, this is more of a money sink, and I think it would detract from gyms more than help them.

 

A big problem is, as others have said, people aren't rushing to create a public gym to make money. Most of the top managers in the game run a private gym and train their own fighters there. Most of the players looking to make money run an org or (with decent design skills) a clothing shop. Nutrition shops rarely take off without some kind of sponsorship from an alliance that is looking to put their stamp on the name of the joint.

 

There just needs to be some kind of incentive to draw people to WANT to run a public gym***, and I would love to see the setup changed so that it becomes its own little interactive game on its own, similar to how running an org is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE than the rest of MMATycoon.

 

***I wrote "an organization" but actually meant "a public gym".

[SeanJuan]

Another thought would be for public gyms to receive some form of income for being, well, public. In other words, there would be people who might train there that are not fighters, and maybe don't utilize any spots in classes or sparring, only wearing out equipment and using the vending machine. This could be an additional source of income for public gyms perhaps. Were there a rent factor, the amount of income could be based on size. Or, if working more with the existing setup, this income would vary based on availability of public gyms in that city. Cities that are starved for a public gym would be given a good-sized income boost from the non-fighter traffic. I would temper this with having it also based on number of paying members too (some product of paying members times demand in city), just so no one would open a terrible gym simply to cash out.

[duphus]

http://www.mmatycoon.info/images/a/aa/Fighters_per_session.jpg

 

 

There is what is wrong with a public gym^^^^^^^^^^

 

if you look at the chart you can see that 1 on 1 gets full or max gain from a session assuming coach is skilled enough. However you can see that at the following number of fighters per sessions the amount of gain is decreased a fair amount:

 

1 on 1 Max gain

2 on 1 -17% maybe less depending on other fighter with yours skill level

3 on 1 -27%

4 on 1 -37%

5 on 1 -50%

 

So you basically need 3 fighters to pay 1000.00 to pay for a single elite coach to slowly make back signing bonus money and eventually make a profit. Well those fighters are going to like get -37% training which means they are going to take roughly 33% more sessions to get to a certain skill then with 1 on 1 training.

 

Keep in mind a fast learner can go from useless to wonderful in a little as 40 sessions or so and if not overly fast could be 60+ sessions. So if you add in that he's in a public gym and a lot of the time he's getting 3 on 1 sessions his 40 sessions to wonderful just became 53 sessions. That is an entire extra week to get the same skill gain, instead of doing that in 3.5 weeks it now takes 4.5 weeks.

 

Right now everyone knows it takes around a real year and half with private training to get a fighter close to caps or least close enough to compete skill wise at the top levels so add 37% to that and that makes it over 2 years and I doubt it's that fast. That's also assuming you not getting sessions fuller then 3 on 1, which I doubt too many public gyms can average that ratio of fighters to coaches.

[poraan]

Istead of running public gym many new managers decide to run private gym for older managers. And thats smart, they get free really high lvl training for their fighters.

There is no any reason to run public gym. You dont get a lot money and you lose your business slot.

 

One change could be change to coaches skill amount/maxium skill capacity at gym.

Gyms that have coaches with lower than elite skills, would have more skillpoints than now. So basically gyms skillcap would depent little on average coaches skill lvl.

 

You can currently have 3k skillpoints at gym or 12 coaches with as much as you want. After this this would be same for elite coahes.. If you would have like average skill115/150, cap would rise to 3,5k.

 

Some public gyms would have differend lvl coaches and more skillpoints than private gyms, if private gyms have elite coaches. New fighters wont need elite coaches to low skills. Only public gym trainers and public gym owners would win.

[markyosullivan]

Here's a couple of gym related suggestions from the improvements forums

 

Gym Trophies (like trophies for other company owners such as orgs/ nutrition/ clothing/ etc)

 

Gym manager improvements (Merchandise, Amateur tournaments, Gym open to the public option, Higher size = higher cost)

 

Training - Easy rest days

 

Permanent invitation to private gym for all of a manager's fighters (even future ones)

[SpizzEnergi]

Two possible solutions:

 

#1 Raise gym caps significantly. If this was done, people could offer acceptable training while making a profit.

or

#2 Allow people who run a public gym to also run a second business. This would encourage owners who have a profitable business to be able to open a quality public gym as a form of charity without losing their source of income.

 

I've had a couple of my guys in public gyms here but I prefer my own as I can tailor the training when and how I want... that said, I'd be happy to run my own private gym and run a public gym in the same or different city.

[rocketman]

Perhaps you could allow gym owners to hire a limited number (say 5) of private coaches above the skill point limit that could only be used with their own fighters and would not show up in the public view at all. This might encourage managers whose sole purpose of owning a gym is to train their own fighters to open thier gyms to the public.

[Mentor]

Nothing is wrong with the gym system. If there is a lack of gyms it simply means gyms are not that attractive as businesses, which basically means you should increase profits, but that wont particularly improve the situation as it will mean orgs will have to increase the wages as well.

 

 

[generalmills]

Bottom line, the problem is private gyms, not profit from public gyms. It is too easy, and too rewarding to run your own private gym instead of offering a public to others. That's why the system is broken for public gyms.

[Timmy]

My solution would be to define three gym types, chosen permanantly on creation.

 

1. Public: No abilty to set maximum capacity or become "invite only". Coaches cost 10% less, CT coaches cost 25% less. Fees capped at $900.

 

2. Semi-Private: May set max capacity as low as 40, but no "invite only" option. Coaches cost the same as they do now and fees are capped at $1000.

 

3. Private: Strictly "invite only", no abilty to allow access without an invite. They may charge up to $1200/week, but coaches cost an extra 25%.

 

Reasoning: I think this gives the option of the "status quo" with semi-private gyms, while making private gyms a little more expensive and all-out public gyms more profitable.