Public gyms need to be looked at

[Lockdown]

As I look through my fighters I notice I need to find a gym for one of my fighters in Hilo. I go to the highstreet and there are literally zero gyms to join.

 

I understand that everybody is in alliances, and everybody pools their resources and makes private gyms. But I feel like public gyms need a boost - there needs to be more incentive for people to own and operate a public gym. Never once in my over 6 years of Tycoon have I ever seen a highstreet with 0 available gyms to join. I also understand that public gyms aren't part of the metagame and that everybody should train in private gyms with 1 on 1 elite coaches. There are still people who train in public gyms though - mainly managers who take scraps off the FA list like myself and have no real aspirations with these fighters - it's a far more casual way of still enjoying the game.

 

Suggestions

 

- Close down Hilo

- Improve public gym incentive for owners

- Have tiers of cozad gyms. The default $50 one and a $1000 one with elite coaches

 

 

[markyosullivan]

I agree with you that there has to be an incentive to own a public gym because everyone makes private gyms. I like the idea of cozad gyms having tiers.

[Erik]

Gyms in general need to be looked at, both public and private.

[dvjmw]

IMO coaches make way to much a week. As it stands righ now a triple elite coach makes 7250 a week. 6 days a week. That turns into $377,000 a year. Do MMA coaches make that in RL.

[markyosullivan]

IMO coaches make way to much a week. As it stands righ now a triple elite coach makes 7250 a week. 6 days a week. That turns into $377,000 a year. Do MMA coaches make that in RL.

 

Do most gyms not take a percentage cut of a fighters pay?

[stpierrecanada]

IMO coaches make way to much a week. As it stands righ now a triple elite coach makes 7250 a week. 6 days a week. That turns into $377,000 a year. Do MMA coaches make that in RL.

I agree with this. If more realistic pay was there, people might be more persuaded to make a public org if they can make some profits eventually. I myself have a private gym and am not sure whether normal public org owners see any money back or even stay in the even?

[GBK16]

IMO coaches make way to much a week. As it stands righ now a triple elite coach makes 7250 a week. 6 days a week. That turns into $377,000 a year. Do MMA coaches make that in RL.

Not true considering a year irl is equivalent to 12 weeks in game, so really you are looking at $87,000.

 

MMA Tycoon in my opinion is pretty much what MMA would be if it was a popular mainstream sport in an ideal sort of setting where you would have numerous companies battling to be the big one, rather than just the current monopoly type situation with the UFC being the only top contenders. So in regards to that, you would expect the public gyms to be bit better and I love the idea of a tier system for the Cozad gyms.

[Erik]

 

Do most gyms not take a percentage cut of a fighters pay?

 

IRL yes, in game, no, and therein lies the problem with gyms at the moment.

[MMATycoon]

I've always found gyms to be the trickiest company to figure out the best solution for. I agree it needs to be better though. Lowering coach wages is sensible. A percentage of winnings is also sensible in theory but I think there are issues with that. It provides more of an incentive to use private gyms for one.

[Erik]

It provides more of an incentive to use private gyms for one.

 

Because so many people with the money for private gyms are using public gyms now, right?

[Guest]

If anything keep the rates the way they are but tone down the raise demands. You can give a guy a 100 dollar/week raise, move him to satisfied... but in a week or 2 he'll be unhappy again.

[xanax]

Up the number of coaches and lower the wages a bit for public gyms.

[Kronix]

bump... it's such an important issue and still one of the most neglected areas of the whole game. It really belongs in the error section because it's that broken

[GiankaBonghi]

I couldnt agree more with you, wise words.

[Splitm]

 

Because so many people with the money for private gyms are using public gyms now, right?

That doesn't make his point less valid. The suggestion of a cut from fighter pay simply worsen the problem, it doesn't go towards solving it.

 

If you think about it, IRL, every gym is a private gym. Sure, you can join, but you are simply not joining the elite gym right off the bat. You can get private sessions if you have money, but you are not part of the team, you don't spar with the Jackson/Wink team by doing private sessions.

 

The gym fees are not adjusted to inflation of the game. That's one issue. Owning a public gym is just not profitable, unless you cram in 70+ people in a skill capped coach gym.. then people leave, because it sucks. I don't think the coach fees are the only issue, the skill cap also doesn't help. I don't have a solution on top of my head, but simply stating why public gyms suck : it's not worth owning one.

 

Why I think should be more realistic with real life is have public gyms as they are, but change the way sparring works : you can keep the regular sparring sessions, but have alternative "pro" sparring and training sessions (say at night) for those part of the pro team. To be part of the pro team, you would need some kind of factors, like record, number of fights, vs what kind of competition, etc. Those pro sessions would allow better sparring, and less fighters per training sessions. Eventually, you could have various levels of pro teams, depending on what the gym owners want to have as the floor. Being part of the pro team would entail additional costs for fighters, and gym owners can have a proper gym that is public and that provides actual good training sessions to fighters that need it.

 

Instead of having a cut from fighter pay, public gyms could get a higher rating from having the pro team as a whole perform well. Since the owners can't decide who to keep in or out (or give him some discretion, but to a limit), there won't be abuse. Higher ratings could mean some kind of rewards, like lowered equipment costs (sponsors), or maybe a higher cap for weekly fees, just throwing ideas here.

 

Finally, this final idea has too many implication to probably be considered, but higher ratings could give a boost in training or sparring sessions for the pro team? It's a self-feeding loop, but that's a bit how it works in real life no?

 

The whole idea above should only be for public gyms : private gyms would stay the same, would not be rated, would not get any of above. That would force a lot of private gyms to go back public, especially if the last idea is implemented. From there, it would be up to them to decide if it's worth staying private or not. It at least gives a balance back to public gyms. For new managers, it sucks to have no public gyms. I would quit if I saw the number of public gyms available.. just look in Montreal, there are 2 public gyms and they are horrible.

[Guest]

As a new player that is not part of an alliance, I agree with looking at gyms with fresh eyes, there is definitely a problem, particularly for new players.

 

I started in Las Vegas. My fighters started with $500. In order to get decent training, I literally had to 'buy' a foreclosed gym that already had money in the account and several inactive fighters whose managers had gone inactive and were still members paying weekly. So I'm basically draining their money to train my own fighters, but even still, I can only fund one 120 skill fitness coach. Many of the public gyms in my area are full or nearly full.

 

Is training in a private gym for $1000/wk really the intended way of playing the game for new players? How? I'm trying to understand how I'm supposed to be playing, but I feel like at the moment, I'm having to scrape by to survive. I got lucky finding the gym with money in the account, but I'm starting to wonder what my next move should be.

 

 

EDIT: It seems like there are no reasonably priced mid-level gyms. Gyms for people who have less than 6-10 in a skill without a lot of money. But it seems like a large part of the game is made up of long time vets with tons of money. So you either have Cozad's, or $1000/wk gyms and that's it, nothing in between.

[Erik]

That doesn't make his point less valid. The suggestion of a cut from fighter pay simply worsen the problem, it doesn't go towards solving it.

 

This is absolute bullshit, it can't worsen the "problem" because the situation is already about as far gone as it can get.

 

There is no financially positive way to run a gym that provides anything even close to ideal training, and that won't change unless Mike either makes group training better than one on one, cuts coach wages by about 80%*, allows a cut from fighter pay, or adds some kind of alternative income stream (or preferably some combination of these). Plus, running a public gym and trying to get good training in it for your own fighters is undeniably a huge pain in the ass with randoms messing up your class sizes.

 

All decent gyms run at a loss, and the reason there are no public ones is because nobody wants to run a business at a loss to benefit someone else.

 

*The alternative, increasing the gym wage cap, hurts new players and isn't worth considering.

[Kronix]

As a new player that is not part of an alliance, I agree with looking at gyms with fresh eyes, there is definitely a problem, particularly for new players.

 

I started in Las Vegas. My fighters started with $500. In order to get decent training, I literally had to 'buy' a foreclosed gym that already had money in the account and several inactive fighters whose managers had gone inactive and were still members paying weekly. So I'm basically draining their money to train my own fighters, but even still, I can only fund one 120 skill fitness coach. Many of the public gyms in my area are full or nearly full.

 

Is training in a private gym for $1000/wk really the intended way of playing the game for new players? How? I'm trying to understand how I'm supposed to be playing, but I feel like at the moment, I'm having to scrape by to survive. I got lucky finding the gym with money in the account, but I'm starting to wonder what my next move should be.

 

 

EDIT: It seems like there are no reasonably priced mid-level gyms. Gyms for people who have less than 6-10 in a skill without a lot of money. But it seems like a large part of the game is made up of long time vets with tons of money. So you either have Cozad's, or $1000/wk gyms and that's it, nothing in between.

 

That is a shame to hear that you had to go that route. Now days getting your hands on some money is quite easy but it require you to begg a little. With the noob fund and various generous players in the game new guys can ussually get their hands on a large sum to help them come into the game. The idea is a good one but I don't think it should be necessary for new players to come into the game and start by asking for money. It's just not a good way to go but it's a necessity because there are no mid level gyms.

 

The insentive to have low level gym is none existing, you can even see this on the Island. Out of 5 gyms there is NO cheap conditioning / sparring gym. Not a single one! and we are only 3 months into the Island. This is the natural order how gym works because people want to have the best gym. Not the most needed one. They want to have the best coaches because it's more fun to run a business that is on top than in the bottom. So the whole system does not work as the natural order is to evolve and try to offer the best.

 

5 gyms, not ONE cheap gym. 3 months into the Island.. I say it again because this is the blueprint how it works for the rest of the game as well although it varies quite a lot from city to city. The norm still is overcrowded $1000 gyms.

 

I there for think the game needs assume responsibility to offer the low to mid level gym. The cozads should be redone for the time being. They aren't to compete with the elite gyms but they should offer a safe haven for new players to learn and grow. Once they get a grasp of the game they'll have the money needed to move on to the more expensive gyms. Still over crowded gyms, but it's way way better alternative than right now.

 

Make the cozad a reliable low level gym, offer fighters good training so they can grow and evolve. I think this would benefit the game as a whole. Training and seeing our fighters level up is what gets us hooked in the first place. Fighting does as well but not when those L stacks up and many times those L comes from poor fighter builds and poor training results.

 

Cozad gyms, with various types, ranging from $50 to perhaps up to $400 with coaches no more than wonderful at the top. Fighters would still want to get into the elite level gyms as skills above wonderful would be very difficult to acquire and the need for private gym would still beat everything else. All this does it gives new players an honest chance to find out what this game is about and it's easy enough solution to test out and if it doesn't work. Change it back. All that is required is that few new cozads gym open up and that is it. Isn't it just worth trying something than nothing?

 

I'll happly design the layout for how these gyms could look like. The pricing, capacity and all.

[Guest]

The fact that there even IS a noob fund screams problem to me.

[Bwang]

People could be allowed to run a private gym and a public gym.

 

Private gyms are essential to reach the top, so all serious players have one. They cost a reasonable amount of money so force you to do some level of game play to keep on top of it. Earning money doing in game work, laundering your fighters' winnings, signing fa's with money, winning cash on the spin and win machine, finding sponsorships for your fighters, etc.

 

Private gyms are so commonplace that they shouldn't count as a business slot. I'd like to run a second business, without finding someone to hold my gym.

[Guest]

laundering your fighters' winnings

 

 

This is another aspect of the metagame that strikes me as against the spirit of the game itself. The fact that people do this (or even feel the NEED to do this) lends to the idea that there is a flaw in the game design.

[Bwang]

It can be essential at a certain stage of the game. I've only recently got to the stage where I don't need to do that.

 

If it's legal it's legal. Ever since I've played it's been a normal part of the game, I don't think of it as wrong in any way. Just another aspect to the game.

[Guest]

It's not a morality issue, it's a game design issue.

[Shards]

While potentially a valid point I think things may be digressing at this point, this topic is about public gyms.

[Splitm]

 

This is absolute bullshit, it can't worsen the "problem" because the situation is already about as far gone as it can get.

 

There is no financially positive way to run a gym that provides anything even close to ideal training, and that won't change unless Mike either makes group training better than one on one, cuts coach wages by about 80%*, allows a cut from fighter pay, or adds some kind of alternative income stream (or preferably some combination of these). Plus, running a public gym and trying to get good training in it for your own fighters is undeniably a huge pain in the ass with randoms messing up your class sizes.

 

All decent gyms run at a loss, and the reason there are no public ones is because nobody wants to run a business at a loss to benefit someone else.

 

*The alternative, increasing the gym wage cap, hurts new players and isn't worth considering.

First of all, you can tone down your wording, unless you actually don't care towards a solution and just want to be right.

 

Second, yes the situation can be worse, you can have everybody joining private gyms for good and have no VIPs opening a public gym at all because there is no use for public ones, at all. Giving a solution that doesn't drive towards the goal is not a solution. Just because you think the situation can't be worse doesn't mean any solution is good. Fighter pay cut, say 20 % of 5K per fight, is 1K per fight. A manager could very well just take that money and use it for training anyways, basically doing the same as upping the cap for training fees, but without actual limit, and incentive the game concentrate the higher paid fighters together.

 

New players are not the issue at the moment anyways, it's the mid-players who can't even find a gym at 1000 $ a week that gives decent training. For newer players, really it doesn't take much time to need a 1K $ gym that has decent training.

 

There is no perfect solution, but certainly some are better than others. Again, going back to inflation of the game, there is reason to believe that money isn't the issue (demand is high), it's the supply that can't meet demand because of a cap. The cap was surely justified, but is it still?