Agility

[Freddie]

Everyone has always said Agility is important in this game but I just havent seen it. Am I missing something? Seems a bit over rated to me. I think speed and strength trump agility but I could be overlooking the obvious.

[Diablix]

Why do you think so?

Do you have any kind of "evidence"?

 

To be honest I can't prove it, based on the fact that I always considered it important for strikers I always had high levels of agility for my fighters, but the fact that they were/are successful on average doesn't scientifically prove nothing, of course.

 

On the other hand I had successes with sub-par speed for strikers

 

I always maximize strength, if not for the fact that it's relatively easy to raise it and i don't want to have a disadvantage on what (at least on real life mma) is for sure crucial in every aspect of the fight (striking, clinch, ground game).

 

But i find it extremely hard to find prove, the only way is creating many identical fighters, some with full agility and some with full speed, but still you don't control the hiddens. But you'd need to create many fake fights...

[GiankaBonghi]

Agility is key for boxing, dodge and hit, thats the bob and weave physical, speed is more in and out physical, thats why it is important both for counter strike and takedown offense/defense.

 

Strength is self explanatory, how much damage you can do and how bad you rape people Khabib style both in the clinch and in the ground grappling.

 

The things you said about agility are horrible, try to win a standup war with 0 agility and 150 speed against a 150 agility and 0 speed and see how bad you get beaten to a pulp.

 

If you wanted to imply that Agility & speed are complimentary for striking, yes they are.

[Freddie]

strength is not that important in real mma leverage is key. How does being agile help you bob and weave? Being quick gets you out of the way not agile. anyone can move their head from side to side.

 

Ive had high agile fighters and they do no more than quick fighters. I think the quick fighters actually do better.

[GiankaBonghi]

Why you post in Noob help if you think you already have the truth in your pocket.

[UniConor]

I always imagine an agile striker to be like Anderson Silva

[GiankaBonghi]

I always imagine an agile striker to be like Anderson Silva

 

Yeah but thats how the game represent the physicals, speed is footwork , agility is bob & weave + hands.(and legs when you check the low kicks)

[Freddie]

Why you post in Noob help if you think you already have the truth in your pocket.

[Freddie]

I don't. I'm confused as to how agility really works. Seems to me it hasn't been that effective.

[GiankaBonghi]

Yeah but thats just your observation, how Agility work is explained in the wiki of the game http://www.mmatycoon.info/index.php?title=Fighter_skills

 

Agility affect standup striking : dodge incoming hits, and land hits on opponent, thats really about it, some physicals are more complimentary than the others, like as i said before already, speed is complimentary of agility.

 

As for what i experienced my self, i was able to outstrike lots of strikers with an Agility based boxer with some strength and balance (to avoid being taken down.) , speed was not important because if the phyiscals are different so are the sliders that i use, i also noticed that higher speed is better for getting in the clinch, avoid the clinch, make takedowns and Speed/balance are complimentary physicals for takedown defense.

[Freddie]

Yeah but thats just your observation, how Agility work is explained in the wiki of the game http://www.mmatycoon.info/index.php?title=Fighter_skills

 

Agility affect standup striking : dodge incoming hits, and land hits on opponent, thats really about it, some physicals are more complimentary than the others, like as i said before already, speed is complimentary of agility.

 

As for what i experienced my self, i was able to outstrike lots of strikers with an Agility based boxer with some strength and balance (to avoid being taken down.) , speed was not important because if the phyiscals are different so are the sliders that i use, i also noticed that higher speed is better for getting in the clinch, avoid the clinch, make takedowns and Speed/balance are complimentary physicals for takedown defense.

 

Ok I will look at it some more its just confusing to me to think of it that way.

[Rain]

From my notices, physicals go like this (but this is just my opinion):

 

Agility: Accuracy and Striking Defense (lessens your opponents accuracy)

Flexibility: High Kicks/Knees accuracy and power, Submission offense and defense.

Speed: Takedown offense, clinch entering, successful counters, unsuccessful opponent counters.

Strenght: KO power, clinch control, ground control.

Conditioning: Energy levels.

Balance: Takedown defense, kick strenght, kick accuracy.

[Diablix]

By the way I don't agree at all that in real life you need speed to bob & weave. Maybe we are defining speed in a different way, but to dodge an incoming punch (i had several taekwondo and kickboxing fights, even if at a completely amateur level) you need good reflexes (which are totally unrelated to speed itself, you can be able to outpace someone in a sprint but perceive and react to something half a second later) and agility, dexterity and the ability to perceive where you stand in the space around you and where the punch will likely land.

 

As you said, anyone can move is head and the required movement is so limited that the actual explosiveness of your muscles is almost irrelevant, I don't think that Usain Bolt can move his head significantly faster (at least for the purpose of dodging a punch) than me, which i'm not fast by any means. What matters is the overall ability to quickly perceive that a punch is going to hit you and the ability to move out of the way in the most economic (in a movement perspective) way possible, without wasting time or energies in unnecessary movements / activities (e.g. don't regain balance, a good and agile fighter is always ready to pop like a spring, you have a very good control of your body, you don't make an exaggerately wide movement etc..).

 

As UniConor said, think of Anderson Silva of a good example of very agile fighter. I remember well the Silva Vs Bisping fight, where Bisping actually won, because they were totally different strikers and the difference was so huge that also an untrained eye could perceive it: Silva was more elegant, more neat, always in control of himself very well, his shots were so well coordinated that they didn't give the impression of power behind them (but trust me, they were powerful and they DID hurt). On the other hand Bisping, while much more durable (and probably strong) was tense, his movements gave the impression of strength without real control and his style was much uglier to see, like a brawler in comparison to Silva. In real life MMA there are many factors that come in to play, not last psychology and the hunger, the will to fight which are only partially covered by the hiddens, so Bisping actually won. But there's no doubt that from a "technical" standpoint Silva was by far the superior striker.

 

I know I went OT but maybe I managed to explain the rationale behind agility and why it is / should be vital for an elite striker (IMHO and with the benefit of doubt for not having access to the source code, of course)

[Diablix]

From my notices, physicals go like this (but this is just my opinion):

 

Agility: Accuracy and Striking Defense (lessens your opponents accuracy)

Flexibility: High Kicks/Knees accuracy and power, Submission offense and defense.

Speed: Takedown offense, clinch entering, successful counters, unsuccessful opponent counters.

Strenght: KO power, clinch control, ground control.

Conditioning: Energy levels.

Balance: Takedown defense, kick strenght, kick accuracy.

 

I'm not totally convinced by some, but overall it might work. To be safer I'd change this way, which is higher level but detailed enough for the tactics:

 

Agility: Important for everyone, helps landing shots but especially defending from them

Flexibility: important for guys that want to land high kicks and for the ground game (for sure sub d, not that sureit's important for sweeps or offense.. but still it's not safe to go the ground without it)

Speed: Everyone to some extent, but mostly for grappling guys as I'd say that really helps in dictating where the fight takes place, both offensively and defensively

Strength: Everyone. Striking for the damage, grappling for the control.

Conditioning: Everyone

Balance: Striking guys. If you're the superior BJJ fighter you can live without it, being taken down and on the bottom won't scare you. But it's still important in the ground game if you want to maintain the top position, without good balance i BELIEVE that ground and pound is not a feasible option for example

[GiankaBonghi]

 

Flexibility: important for guys that want to land high kicks and for the ground game (for sure sub d, not that sureit's important for sweeps or offense.. but still it's not safe to go the ground without it)

Just a bit more clarification, Flexibility for kicks only matter for the HeadKick types and in a lesser manner it affect body kicks(like a 50/50 algorithm or something like that) for low kicks flexibility is totally unnecessary.

 

Oh i forgot, i THINK (my observation from my experience) that when pulling guard, strength is fundamental, i think speed is more important for standup takedowns both off/def. (well and ofcourse Balance it is self explanatory).

 

Another observation though, maybe total bullshit but when i read commentaries, some counter strikes doenst land OR land on the opponent because if you fail to counter it say you are too much off balance, same for the opponent when he receive the strike, so i really dont know if Balance can be a complimentary physical for counter strikes.

[Freddie]

Thanks guys.

By the way I don't agree at all that in real life you need speed to bob & weave. Maybe we are defining speed in a different way, but to dodge an incoming punch (i had several taekwondo and kickboxing fights, even if at a completely amateur level) you need good reflexes (which are totally unrelated to speed itself, you can be able to outpace someone in a sprint but perceive and react to something half a second later) and agility, dexterity and the ability to perceive where you stand in the space around you and where the punch will likely land.

 

Diablix Ive always viewed it as an instinct (or a fighters instinct) as the more you fight full contact the sharper your reflexes get and the better you move without effort/thought to avoid getting hit. At least that was my experience in real life. So you are correct and I think Im looking at this the wrong way.

 

 

Another observation though, maybe total bullshit but when i read commentaries, some counter strikes doenst land OR land on the opponent because if you fail to counter it say you are too much off balance, same for the opponent when he receive the strike, so i really dont know if Balance can be a complimentary physical for counter strikes.

This is interesting and I haven't noticed it before or it might not have clicked in my head if I read it. I'll have to watch for it in the future.

 

 

From my notices, physicals go like this (but this is just my opinion):

 

Speed: Takedown offense, clinch entering, successful counters, "unsuccessful opponent counters".

 

I hadn't thought of this before but it seems to make sense. At least to me, at this time.

[Guest]

Some great info here. Thanks to all that contributed opinions. Going back through some of my TOTT I can see a lot of this making sense and seeing where some of my builds need some work.

Especially my strikers that keep getting sub'd. Well, my slider work sucks, but maybe with some proper builds I can over come a bit of my lacking in sliders.

[UniConor]

I havent read through this whole thread but what I have read is just "I think this" and a lot of speculation. Here is what I know:

 

Speed affects how many moves you attempt, if you are slower than your opponent its a major disadvantage and one near on impossible to combat. Me and Wolf used to build our fighters the same way because of it.

 

Agility is important and affects striking defense more than anything else, but does help with a lot of other things like landing punches.

 

To say speed and strength are more important than agility is an opinion but to neglect agility is just stupid. All hiddens are important in there own right and whenever Mike will take his thumb out his ass and do this fight engine changes and put a physical cap, fighter builds will get a whole lot more interesting.

[Guest]

I havent read through this whole thread but what I have read is just "I think this" and a lot of speculation. Here is what I know:

 

Speed affects how many moves you attempt, if you are slower than your opponent its a major disadvantage and one near on impossible to combat. Me and Wolf used to build our fighters the same way because of it.

 

Agility is important and affects striking defense more than anything else, but does help with a lot of other things like landing punches.

 

To say speed and strength are more important than agility is an opinion but to neglect agility is just stupid. All hiddens are important in there own right and whenever Mike will take his thumb out his ass and do this fight engine changes and put a physical cap, fighter builds will get a whole lot more interesting.

 

So, just how alike did you and wolf build your fighters?

[bluesandbrews]

So, from what I understand so far (very little), agility helps with standing striking and from what I read, speed helps with "shoot takedowns". Does speed apply at all to hand speed for your fighters with good punches?

[bluesandbrews]

I guess that best thing to do is be safe and get all your physicals high haha.

[bluesandbrews]

And also with balance, which I read helped with takedown defense. If I have strictly a KT fighter, should I even worry with training him in balance focused circuit training sessions?

[Bwang]

Speed is good for stand up skills, countering etc. No one knows exactly how important each physical is, but yeah they're all important!

As for balance in a KT guy, I agree - it's the least important. Perhaps it's a little useful for kicks, I think it's a little useful for knees in the clinch. I would be happy with respectable balance in a KT guy just to be on the safe side, but maybe you could do fine with useless balance.

[Lefty]

I guess that best thing to do is be safe and get all your physicals high haha.

This might be difficult to do with the proposed upcoming updates that are "in the works"