Do you ever miss when MMA was more of a S***show

[TAYNE]

I kinda do.

 

Remember how crazy it was sometimes? Remember that K1 show in Cali, with DJ what's his name shouting out to all the warcraft fans in the audience?

 

I even kinda miss shit like Kimbo VS Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz nonsense from bellator a little while ago - I'm pretty sure that stuff is done. I was embarrassed by it at the time, now I miss the wacky flavor of that kind of stuff.

 

CM Punk fighting was a real shitshow, but not the fun kind.

 

Memba Kimo Leopoldo? Memba Random Task getting his balls punched in by a McDojo instructor with beach muscles and a mullet?

 

Now fighters are 1000 times better and I can't bring myself to care about most of them.

[Erik]

More of one, yes, but not back when it was a shitshow designed to promote Gracie Jiujitsu.

 

The era from UFC 12 to about UFC 70 were some of the best days of MMA I think, the sport was starting to move out of the bullshit / reputations / rumours / street fight lite stage and into a more legitimate athletic contest without the complete mismatches that made early events less interesting. The "underground" era had some amazing fights that very few have seen; most of the Couture heavyweight title fights were great, BJ Penn was just a freak, Frank Shamrock was 10 years ahead of pretty much everybody else, and Ricco Rodriguez was the most obscenely talented fighter to completely throw it all away -- if he'd stayed on top for 2 years he could've made millions in the early Zuffa era.

[MasterLeader]

More of one, yes, but not back when it was a shitshow designed to promote Gracie Jiujitsu.

 

The era from UFC 12 to about UFC 70 were some of the best days of MMA I think, the sport was starting to move out of the bullshit / reputations / rumours / street fight lite stage and into a more legitimate athletic contest without the complete mismatches that made early events less interesting. The "underground" era had some amazing fights that very few have seen; most of the Couture heavyweight title fights were great, BJ Penn was just a freak, Frank Shamrock was 10 years ahead of pretty much everybody else, and Ricco Rodriguez was the most obscenely talented fighter to completely throw it all away -- if he'd stayed on top for 2 years he could've made millions in the early Zuffa era.

It wasn't designed to promote Gracie Jiu Jitsu? Royce was just able to destroy all of them - that's like saying Men's 100m is designed to promote Usain Bolt because he's the best

[Mentor]

I would say yes, but not the times you are talking about, i am looking more around the era Erik is mentioning. Those times were probably the most interesting from around 2001 till 2005. K-1 probably was at it's peak around this time, with a mesh of the best of the old era and some of the new stars coming in. UFC was recovering after the purchase from Zuffa and Pride was also rising still. 2006-2007 was when Pride closed, K-1 started to fade and closed shortly after.

 

I still think that now is better than were we was 5 years ago, at least Bellator is on the rise, Glory is looking to improve as well with their first PPV event recently, the HW division is starting to look somewhat legit (i always think the HW is the pinnacle, if the HW division totally sucks, then it is not usually good for the sport).

[itakebrides]

I missed when there was no weight classes and we found out who the best fighter is which is what everybody whats to know .Get rid of weight classes asap

[Guest]

I missed when there was no weight classes and we found out who the best fighter is which is what everybody whats to know .Get rid of weight classes asap

Honestly too dangerous.

[UniConor]

I missed when there was no weight classes and we found out who the best fighter is which is what everybody whats to know .Get rid of weight classes asap

Nah, it wouldn't be fair on the fatties. Demetrious would wipe the floor with everyone apart from Cruz, who would be out with an injury after running away from Mark Hunt

[MasterLeader]

Stick DJ with ANYONE above his weight class and he loses - P4P #1 my arse. I'd beat him and I'm only 155

[TAYNE]

Remember when there was an openweight tournament and fucking minowa won?

[Guest]

I missed when there was no weight classes and we found out who the best fighter is which is what everybody whats to know .Get rid of weight classes asap

 

Errrr OKAY!?

[Erik]

It wasn't designed to promote Gracie Jiu Jitsu? Royce was just able to destroy all of them - that's like saying Men's 100m is designed to promote Usain Bolt because he's the best

 

The UFC was co-founded by Rorian Gracie and Art Davie -- BJJ guys who picked most of the fighters; thus why UFC 1 had 5 strikers, 1 joke, Gracie, and Shamrock*. Royce was also specifically chosen to represent BJJ because he was small and they thought it would be good business.

 

So basically, no Judo, no Sambo, no Luta Livre, and no Wrestling -- this despite the break up of the soviet union resulting in a large number of formerly professional athletes in some of these disciplines now looking for other work. This without mentioning any of the guys who had fought in Shooto (which incidentally was a good 10 years ahead of the UFC in terms of actually being a sport).

 

If you don't believe the first UFC was designed to promote Gracie Jiu Jitsu, then Vince McMahon has a product he'd like to sell you.

 

*Who had a limited background in semi-legitimate fighting.

[lamotta44]

not really

[MasterLeader]

 

The UFC was co-founded by Rorian Gracie and Art Davie -- BJJ guys who picked most of the fighters; thus why UFC 1 had 5 strikers, 1 joke, Gracie, and Shamrock*. Royce was also specifically chosen to represent BJJ because he was small and they thought it would be good business.

 

So basically, no Judo, no Sambo, no Luta Livre, and no Wrestling -- this despite the break up of the soviet union resulting in a large number of formerly professional athletes in some of these disciplines now looking for other work. This without mentioning any of the guys who had fought in Shooto (which incidentally was a good 10 years ahead of the UFC in terms of actually being a sport).

 

If you don't believe the first UFC was designed to promote Gracie Jiu Jitsu, then Vince McMahon has a product he'd like to sell you.

 

*Who had a limited background in semi-legitimate fighting.

Gracie Jiu Jitsu at that time would've beaten all wrestlers, sambo & luta livre fighters - on its own BJJ is by far the best discipline and no one knew how to use it. The reason wrestlers are so effective nowadays is they're all competent at BJJ, therefore your argument is bullshit.

[TAYNE]

 

The UFC was co-founded by Rorian Gracie and Art Davie -- BJJ guys who picked most of the fighters; thus why UFC 1 had 5 strikers, 1 joke, Gracie, and Shamrock*. Royce was also specifically chosen to represent BJJ because he was small and they thought it would be good business.

 

So basically, no Judo, no Sambo, no Luta Livre, and no Wrestling -- this despite the break up of the soviet union resulting in a large number of formerly professional athletes in some of these disciplines now looking for other work. This without mentioning any of the guys who had fought in Shooto (which incidentally was a good 10 years ahead of the UFC in terms of actually being a sport).

 

If you don't believe the first UFC was designed to promote Gracie Jiu Jitsu, then Vince McMahon has a product he'd like to sell you.

 

*Who had a limited background in semi-legitimate fighting.

Eh I don't know. Early UFCs included Ken Shamrock, Pancrase champion and legit amateur wrestler Dan Severn. Yeah it also included a bunch of hopeless cans, but it's not like it's easy to get legit athletes to fight Vale Tudo rules and risk having their balls crushed into a fine paste or their eyes gouged out (let's not forget that's a favorite technique of UFC 1 alum Gerard Gordeau)

 

You're not entirely wrong but I think you may be exaggerating a little. It helps to have the benefit of hindsight, after all. At the time there were people who thought Art Jimmerson had a chance. And did anyone in America have any idea what the fuck Shooto was? I don't remember a huge outrage over the missing shooto-ers at the time.

 

On the plus side, remembering UFC 1-3 in detail has cured me of some of my nostalgia.

 

 

Gracie Jiu Jitsu at that time would've beaten all wrestlers, sambo & luta livre fighters - on its own BJJ is by far the best discipline and no one knew how to use it. The reason wrestlers are so effective nowadays is they're all competent at BJJ, therefore your argument is bullshit.

 

That's somehow both mostly true and completely insane at the same time

[Erik]

Gracie Jiu Jitsu at that time would've beaten all wrestlers, sambo & luta livre fighters - on its own BJJ is by far the best discipline and no one knew how to use it. The reason wrestlers are so effective nowadays is they're all competent at BJJ, therefore your argument is bullshit.

 

Earlier Vale Tudo fights indicate that Gracie Jiu Jitsu was hardly unbeatable (Eugenio Tadeu drew a fight with Rickson Gracie for example, and Marco Ruas had some decent results too), and that's despite virtually no presence of the styles that mainly existed outside Brazil (just JJ, LL, and Judo).

 

*Rickson also trained quite a lot in Judo according to several accounts.

 

 

Eh I don't know. Early UFCs included Ken Shamrock, Pancrase champion and legit amateur wrestler Dan Severn. Yeah it also included a bunch of hopeless cans, but it's not like it's easy to get legit athletes to fight Vale Tudo rules and risk having their balls crushed into a fine paste or their eyes gouged out (let's not forget that's a favorite technique of UFC 1 alum Gerard Gordeau)

 

You're not entirely wrong but I think you may be exaggerating a little. It helps to have the benefit of hindsight, after all. At the time there were people who thought Art Jimmerson had a chance. And did anyone in America have any idea what the fuck Shooto was? I don't remember a huge outrage over the missing shooto-ers at the time.

 

On the plus side, remembering UFC 1-3 in detail has cured me of some of my nostalgia.

 

Pancrase was dubious in legitimacy, and Severn didn't show up until UFC 4 -- the first 3 were practically Gracie JJ commercials with the opponents they chose, and for all nobody in America knew what Shooto* was nobody knew who the fuck Ken Shamrock was either. It's up for debate if the UFC was even really meant to continue after the first one.

 

*My mention of Shooto wasn't a complaint about a lack of competitor really, more a comment about how far more developed the sport was in Japan too; they had rules, weight classes, and such back in 1989

[kenlow73]

eh, the only time I can recall that it was really crazy was the last time Strikeforce was on CBS and Mayhem jumped the cage to get in Shield's face and The Diaz Brothers started that brawl, all while on National Live TV.

[MasterLeader]

Gracie Jiu Jitsu at that time would've beaten all wrestlers, sambo & luta livre fighters - on its own BJJ is by far the best discipline and no one knew how to use it. The reason wrestlers are so effective nowadays is they're all competent at BJJ, therefore your argument is bullshit.

How can you even argue with this fact?