New gym rule

[DrewWilliam]

I gotta say man I hate this rule. I thought the whole point f a tycoon style game is to build up as big as you can and take over as much as possible. I wanted to be able to build a very very large training facility that is world renown like Xtreme Couture or BTT.

 

With the rule I am not going to turn any profit. Well its going to be a hell of a lot harder that is for sure.

 

I always have competition biting at my heals, and my only way to maintain my spot as the best is my ability to upgrade trainers.

 

I wanted to have a trainer for every trainable skill... So that each trainer focuses on only one discipline (kicks, knees, sub offence ect.) I have seriously been working on this goal for over a month now.

 

Anyway, I think creating a rule out of thin air to hold one guy down is pretty crummy. Whats next, once a manager gets 10 fighter with undefeated record and he is about achieve his goal we make a rule to stop him/her. I think its pretty unfair to be honest. No warning, pretty crummy reasoning (my gym is getting too big or good) and at this point it only effects ONE MANAGER... me.

 

Your game is awesome, and I'm enjoying playing... and paying for it... but this is the first thing to get me down. Espicially since I have payed and worked hard to get the kind of gym I have wanted.

 

 

[DrewWilliam]

Can i suggest modifying the rule or something... like a tax on having more than 10 trainers or something... i dunno... just something not as lame and totally targeted at me.

 

Are they going to be rules that stunt the growth of fight orgs/nutrition companies/clothing companies???

 

I would also be interested in know who the "Someone" who "rightly pointed out" is. Possibly a competitor in Vegas who is pissed my gym is doing well because i am able to offer better trainers at a lower price??? That's business... shouldn't be penalized for running it well.

[dushira]

wow I just took a look and your gym is great.

 

If I had a fighter in Las Vegas he would definitively train there....

 

[Guest]

doode.. get over it. You say you wanna have a gym like couture's? I bet good money that xtreme couture doesn't have 300+ fighters training. Right now you're offering the walmart of training centers... great prices for a discounted product. Your trainer to fighter ratio severely limits the effectiveness of your elite trainers. One of the biggest reasons why your gym is so popular is because new players dont completely understand the way training works in the game and they're enticed by your "elite training at rock bottom prices".

 

I can sympathize with what you're saying about it being mmatycoon and not mmasocialist.. but also keep in mind that the game hasn't gone public. Vegas is where half the game's managers end up, and imagine that you came along 6 months from now and wanted to start a gym in vegas but that everyone was going to one gym because the guy was able to build it up before anybody really had a chance to join.

 

Its late so i'm not sure how much of this makes sense.. but bottom line is you really shouldn't be complaining about something that hurts you when it makes the game better for everyone.

 

 

 

[DrewWilliam]

doode.. get over it. You say you wanna have a gym like couture's? I bet good money that xtreme couture doesn't have 300+ fighters training. Right now you're offering the walmart of training centers... great prices for a discounted product. Your trainer to fighter ratio severely limits the effectiveness of your elite trainers. One of the biggest reasons why your gym is so popular is because new players dont completely understand the way training works in the game and they're enticed by your "elite training at rock bottom prices".

 

I can sympathize with what you're saying about it being mmatycoon and not mmasocialist.. but also keep in mind that the game hasn't gone public. Vegas is where half the game's managers end up, and imagine that you came along 6 months from now and wanted to start a gym in vegas but that everyone was going to one gym because the guy was able to build it up before anybody really had a chance to join.

 

Its late so i'm not sure how much of this makes sense.. but bottom line is you really shouldn't be complaining about something that hurts you when it makes the game better for everyone.

 

Well I purposly started the gym because I knew I had got into the game early and would be in a good spot once the game went live. I was banking on it actually.

 

Also i think everyone needs to remember that it isn't just just fighter/trainer ratio. It's more complicated than that. I think it is more the fighter to training slot ratio that is more important.

 

Take a gym that has less fighter for example but less trainers as well. But they only offer some skills once or twice a week. Likestriking defence or ground and pound. Yeah they have less overall fighters... but almost every fighter is going to train on those days.

 

I over things like takedowns, takedown defence, punching technique, striking defence, and some other things.. ALL SEPERATLY 12 TIMES A WEEK. You there is less chance that people are going to train on the same day as you... I have done this on purpose.. continuously hiring more trainers to do this so that I can offer thing a lot even though my gym is getting large.

 

I haven't heard many complaints from managers regarding the results they are getting. Everyone is quick to say "Oh but too many fighters are bad".. let the pops do the talking.

 

Yeah my gym is getting big... but I was always aing sure that I expanded to offer quality elite training. I lie how I'm being painted as a bad guy for trying to suck in new managers... NO. I have every one of my fighters training at my gym... because i want to offer them the best training there is.

 

I promise that at my gym.. even with 300+ fighters you get better training than ost other gyms in vegas (probably all). I have set my price point low (which will proably have to start going up now that i will have to cap fighters and stop hiring trainers) so that you can buy supplements to maximise your training, an buy clothing to keep your morale up... Keep the mmatycoon economy in vegas rolling...

 

I think it should be my bussiness the way I run my gym... and if you don't like it don't train there. But a lot of people are.. and a lot of people are getting really good results.

 

If I had known that was going to happen I probably wouldn't have started the gym at all because I can't accomplish what I set out to do. What happens next... a rule that limits how many fighters can pop in one week??? Sound crazy... well so does a rule limiting how many employees a success business can hire.

[Patti]

I think the limit should be 12 coaches. There are 12 things to train so one coach for each would be about the most effective gym you could make. After that you'd just be adding duplicate caoches to get more people in the doors, but 12 makes sense.

[Guest]

I am gonna have to agree you will have to do this to nutrion companies as well when some of them start complaining about the cheap prices at other once. Like right now there is no reason to not buy from Syndicate Drugs lower price for a better product and yes they could be saying its a better product but they have been around since the start and I have tried others its the best. right now there is no reason to not buy there. Your gonna have to make a rule about them now as well. If people don't want to train there they don't have to but to tell the guy he needs to up his prices and drop some people is insane. The man runs a legit business and pretty much the government is saying he is killing the little guy. Hell if he is wallmart of MMA training then whats the problem with that they can always go someone else. It doesn't say on the door of the gym "Once your in the only way out is in a coffin". People can read forums and decide for themselves if its the best place to go. Right now your pretty much killing the guy because no matter what he can't afford to keep all those trainers after a huge cut down of people. Your pretty much telling the guy "Hey you did a good job on your company but its to good so we are gonna have to pretty much take all the work you did for the past well and set you back to the same level as everyone else" I can't see that being very fair. There doesn't even seem to be a discusion on the way to fix this. Its just "Hey knock it down or else" you would think you would want a little imput before making a rule that yes effects one person a lot but makes everyone else think damn I hope my company doesn't get to good that someone starts compaining about me.

[DougSupreme]

maybe what should happen, because he had such a head start on all the new people, is the limit of 10 coaches should be in force until 3 months (arbitrary number) after the site goes live. That will give some of the new people half a chance to start and sustain a company.

 

just my 0.02, give or take a nickel

[shortstack]

maybe what should happen, because he had such a head start on all the new people, is the limit of 10 coaches should be in force until 3 months (arbitrary number) after the site goes live. That will give some of the new people half a chance to start and sustain a company.

 

just my 0.02, give or take a nickel

 

 

I can see it now. When the game goes public, every new VIP customer will start a business, the game will get flooded with new businesses, 90% will fail, and all the VIP users will lose their VIP accounts. Don't believe me, just watch. Yes, that is what happens in real life, but if you want to sustain this game and your VIP accounts, then it might not be the best way to go. You should have to build up a certain level of experience as manager before you can open a business to encourage prudent thinking. Just my two cents. Or make it so that the bank will not make a loan for a business that is already saturated in a given market (now that has real life implications, as banks don't just give 50,000 to every Joe Shmoe who walks in the door.

[DougSupreme]

I can see it now. When the game goes public, every new VIP customer will start a business, the game will get flooded with new businesses, 90% will fail, and all the VIP users will lose their VIP accounts. Don't believe me, just watch. Yes, that is what happens in real life, but if you want to sustain this game and your VIP accounts, then it might not be the best way to go. You should have to build up a certain level of experience as manager before you can open a business to encourage prudent thinking. Just my two cents. Or make it so that the bank will not make a loan for a business that is already saturated in a given market (now that has real life implications, as banks don't just give 50,000 to every Joe Shmoe who walks in the door.

 

This is a good idea

[MMATycoon]

Drew, like everyone else you were invited into the thread to discuss manager implications for changing companies and this pointed out in that thread. This rule was not "plucked out of thin air", it was discussed.

 

As for not liking the rule, you're not meant to like it.

 

As with just about every decision I have to make some people are negatively affected but if the majority are positively affected then that's the point of the change. I can't please everyone. If you genuinely don't want the gym anymore, I'll close it for you and clear whatever the balance is. But honestly I'd prefer if we don't sensationalise things. If there had been a 10 coach or 12 coach limit when you started, I very much doubt it would have made any difference to whether you created a gym or not.

 

Anyway, I am happy to set it to 12 people if people prefer that. I have absolutely no problem. There 100% has to be a cap though otherwise there might as well just be one enormous gym in every city.

 

There will be limits brought in on other companies too probably for different reasons. I will have to limit the number of clothing items someone can sell both for competition reasons but also just for screen loading reasons and server load. I can't have shops with e.g. 100 designs. Likewise we might have to do something about nutrition too, although I'm not sure what... it's just that at the moment, as soon as you get enough money you can just make a 150 product and then order stock and watch the free money roll in. I have ideas on how to prevent that and make life more interesting but it takes more time to implement than this did.

 

Finally, it doesn't just affect you, it affects all managers. It doesn't matter if it was you or Joe Bloggs Gym whateveverville... the existence of any super-large gym indicates that there needs to be a change in the system otherwise it becomes pointless. Just like Boondock creating loads and loads of designs indicates to me that I need to limit the amount that you can have on sale at once... As I say though, that just takes longer to program. When it is programmed, I'm sure it will piss some people off but it needs to be done for the good of the game.

[MMATycoon]

Just a little addition, if you felt that me mentioning you in the notice was in poor taste then I apologise for that - was just trying to keep things a bit more light hearted.

 

Anyway, just to kick you while you're down, be aware that I will be increasing the price it costs to replace gym equipment at some point. I will give plenty of notice but $3000 is just far too low just in terms of general realism. I'll probably put it up to about $10k sort of region. Even that is far too low and a real life figure is probably more like $50k but $10k will be a more reasonable figure for the purposes of the game.

 

As a general point to everyone though, please be aware that the game will change a lot over the coming years. Some things will benefit you, some will hinder you but it's all done for the overall good of the game and if something does negatively affect you then it's just a new challenge. If I never made it difficult for people then it would just get boring for everyone.

 

I understand that you've got a plan that you want to stick to but I can't give people loads of notice on some things because then everyone would go "oh yeah, I see that loophole" and just exploit it until I closed it. Therefore if I see a loophole or a flaw in the game I have to sort it out as soon as possible.

[Guest]

I had a question then Mike are you gonna make gyms invite only at one point because maybe someone would want to start a gym and train only certain people for a large fee kind of thing. If they wanted to keep it small but ahd a large fee so you were getting great training for a low amount of people. I was just wondering if thats gonna be an opition that happens in real life with people not letting everyone into there gym. Kind of the oppisite of this situation though but something I would like to know. I know people don't want to be excluded from a gym but as I said in real life you can't just walk into some gyms and say here is my money lets rock.

[BizzyB]

I think that (invite only gym) is a great idea, and also very realistic.

[MMATycoon]

If we make invite only gyms we'll also put in a maximum that you can charge per fighter for training too so that if someone wants to manipulate it to get amazing training then they'd lose money doing so.

 

When this was brought up before, the issue is that it's not real life money so people will be quite happy to spend thousands of dollars per week on in game training whereas people wouldn't do that in real life because they have other real life stuff to pay for. In this you have no expenses plus it's not real money so you can waste it.

 

What that would mean is that all the rich people just make invite only gyms with perfect training and the poorer / newer people in the game would have no chance to catch them up... I think we need to find a suitable solution to prevent that happening before doing an invite only gym system.

[Guest]

Maybe you need to put a cap on how much money orginizations can give to there fighters. I hate to say it but your hurting every other company why not do this to them as well. They seem to be able to give whatever they want for a contract. Kills the little guy why would you sign with a small org when you can get more money fighting for a big one and yes you do fight more probably in the small one. Maybe depending on your hype and popularity you can only be offered a certian amount of money in a contract. I know that doesn't seem fair to the org owners but it will help out the little guy trying to start up which seems to be a big focus in this game which is fine thats where you make your money. But there has to be something done about large contracts then to stop high amounts of money on players then. Hell look at the number 2 fighter riches fighter in the game being a free agent with that much money. Doesn't seem right that an org can pay someone that much for not fight once. It seems only fair if you gonna hurt all the other companies this seems like a good way to help out the little guy for organizations.

 

Maybe that way some of these other things can happen because you can't have gyms that are invite only because if someone has a lot of money they will have an advantage well this is a good way to kill that. Everyone at a certian level of pop or hype if in a bracket of pay thats what you get like between 200-400 for a low amount stuff like that.

[MMATycoon]

Capping the amount an org could give to a fighter isn't hurting an org, it's helping them. It would mean they made MORE profit if they weren't giving income to fighers. The more money fighters get, the more they can spend in gyms, the more they can spend in nutrition / clothing etc.

 

The guy who is a free fighter might have made all his money by working full time or part time by the way. I don't know if that's the case or not, just throwing it out there but either way 4k will be basically nothing when we get going with bigger orgs.

[DougSupreme]

maybe you should go the opposite way. Maybe, make a minimum fee for each fighter. $5 per point of hype+pop. signing bonus could be like $3 per point. That would help to maintain a decent fighter wage, based on their drawing power.

[MMATycoon]

I don't see it as a problem at all personally. Market forces will work on the fighter wages. They'll get paid exactly what they're worth in the game.

 

As far as I am concerned there are 2 main potential problems.

 

- Rich people just having perfect training if we do invite only gyms.

- Nutrition companies basically being free money once you do research.

 

Pretty much everything else just works off market forces which can be controlled largely by changing income from events or if necessary introducing some sort of taxation.

[BizzyB]

Maybe you should limit the amount of shows an org can throw in a certain time period. This would curb the amount of fighters the org would want to have on their roster. Some orgs currently are throwing two shows a week, this certainly wouldn't be the case in real life. Maybe one show a week or something. Right now, with unlimited roster spots and a lot of money they can have a fight card everyday of the week if they wanted, a couple big shows on the weekend and smaller shows all week. Ideally the bigger shows would only want to keep fighters with a certain amount of pop and fights (10 or more fights) if they could only have one show every week. This would allow the smaller shows to be able to sign the 0-0 fighters. Let the new fighters prove themselves in the smaller shows before being able to sign with the big orgs.

The UFC has to keep it's roster to around 150 fighters because they can only have X amount of fights a year and it's hard for them to keep their fighters busy enough to stay relevant.

[MMATycoon]

The orgs won't be limited to any max amount of shows but we'll be implementing a diminishing returns policy on event earnings - ie. less people will show up (therefore less income), if an org holds too many events in a short period of time.

 

In terms of the 2 events in a week thing, don't forget that fighters age every 18 weeks so that's more like one event every week and a half. Still a lot more than in real life but not quite so excessive and we do want to keep people active so I don't want to discourage people from holding shows too much!

[Anbe]

Let's cap trainers. Let's cap fighters pay. Cap the T-shirts. Cap this cap that. Let's put a cap on bonusses of manager from organisations that still owe money to the government. Damn socialist pigs.

 

I'm very curious how these organisations will fare in the long run. It seems like the achilles heel of the game. The only thing not entirely figured out yet. I must say I'm interested how this 'Lose VIP' thing will play out. Puniching members for their incompetence doesn't seem fair. Certainly not when it's about money. It's almost like puniching Bush for crashing the economy. Are we crazy?

[MMATycoon]

I'm afraid I have no idea what to say to that post because it's too hard to tell what's ironic/sarcastic/serious

[DrewWilliam]

Oh man... I was thinking about this the other day and how pissed I was when the new rule came into place to stunt the growth of my successful business.

Thought I would come back and see how things changed...

 

Was interested to see people discuss me and my gym even after I was gone.

[DavyJones]

LOL wow way to necro a thread, I thought the OP was new and while reading it all I could think was WTF is this guy talking about!!??