Fighting system pissing me off kinda

[Cenobite11]

It seems that no matter what, BJJ always wins. I've made different fighters, with different specialties. Every fighter that I make that isn't a BJJ specialist gets subbed in the first round. Today I had a wonderful MT fighter, vs a Strong MT fighter, and everything else of mine was a bit higher except we both have white BJJ belts. You would think, with 100 or more MT skill, and very high clinch,knees,and elbows, as soon as this guy gets a hold of you its done. Doesn't seem that way for MOST of the fighters I look up. I get the clinch, hit the guy, and he still manages to take me to the ground and sub me in the first round....With his whitebelt... Now should I just cancel every standup fighter, and just make BJJ guys, with half assed standup, and just take it to the ground??? Hell even my bro's standup fighter shot 5 out of 6 moves, in his last fight, but he had the standup set passed 70%. but won by submission. As well as his remarkable MT fighter, with a blue belt, lost in the first round against a purple belt, because he gets the takedown EVERY time,also not to mention, my brother's fighter hit him in the first shot stumbled him, and he had to regain composure. But was able to and get the win by guillotine in 50 seconds.. I wish I had have known, that pretty much every time you go to the ground someone is getting subbed. It's almost like no matter what my gameplan, it doesn't matter, because a wonderful MT specialist can get you in a clinch, knee your head, cut you. But still get tapped out in the first round. I guess I have to wait a month, make a JJ fighter..wait again, and release my other crap fighter. Im sorry but it takes more than 50 seconds for a fight to go from standing, one guy gets hit and has to back up and regain composurre, a clinch attempt, a takedown and a guillotine. Honestly I'm pretty pissed, because I waited weeks for these fights, and screwed with my tactics for hours and hours, to get subbed out in the first round again????

[Eleventhsun]

I won my fight in Japan today. Funny thing is, I'm a BJJ Brown belt, with good boxing, and I tried to keep the fight standing, but somehow a blue belt took me to the ground, and I subbed him. Hell every fight in Pride ex 5 ended in first round sub, except 1 fight ended in first round tko. I also think there is something wrong with the grappling... If that's what happens, I guess you can just randomize your sliders,

[Guest]

what measures have you taken to prevent the fight from going to the ground? Do you have any takedeown or sub defense? Then supposing you hit the ground, how flexible is your guy? Can he stand the pain of a sub? Most fights end up on the ground, prepare yourself for every aspect of a fight. Stand up will give you a strong advantage to start the match, but when you send him to the ground or he trips you down to it, then what? Then you need more skills. Remember your guy is fighting in an MMA org, not a Kickboxing org

[MMATycoon]

Take a look at the top managers in the game - most have gone for standup guys. As it says on the create new fighter page though, you can't create some UFC 1 clone and expect to not get subbed. How many white belts are there in ANY modern day MMA show? Basically none, so I have no idea why anyone is creating whitebelts in the game.

 

It even says "don't create a white belt and then complain when he gets subbed in 10 seconds flat", yet here you are complaining that your white belts gets subbed in 10 seconds flat

 

Also, if you have a fighter set to 70% standup that's not a standup tactic, that's basically the tactics you'd set for a ground fighter. It means you throw 2 punches then go for a takedown. Read the instructions for the absolute sliders in detail. If you want to stay standing put it to 95% plus.

[Cenobite11]

what measures have you taken to prevent the fight from going to the ground? Do you have any takedeown or sub defense? Then supposing you hit the ground, how flexible is your guy? Can he stand the pain of a sub? Most fights end up on the ground, prepare yourself for every aspect of a fight. Stand up will give you a strong advantage to start the match, but when you send him to the ground or he trips you down to it, then what? Then you need more skills. Remember your guy is fighting in an MMA org, not a Kickboxing org

 

Since it was my 4th fighter made, I had some idea of how it would look after distributing points. So I was sure to make my fighter amazing at MT, decent at def grap, and take def. Just enough to help him stay standing. With minimal points in BJJ it still gave me a blue belt. I set my sliders moreso on the counter,and get up, but not enough that they only do those things. I had him on mainly attempt subs from the ground (because I know how well that works for everyone). I understand the importance of every aspect in MMA. I am a huge addict in real life hehe, but you can't tell me there aren't people who specialize in MT, or BJJ, and have to pick up the rest along the ride? Chiek Kongo, Cro Cop, all amazing hw MT/kb strikers, Cro cop is a bit better on the ground, but these guys are so good at standing they can keep a fight there, its almost like you can't have a specialization, I was better off having woeful and feeble everything, instead of being great at one thing. And a little off on others, I totally understand that if you're no good at grappling, you're gonna get mawled on the ground. But when you go into a fight with wonderful MT, and a white belt at BJJ, we're talking about a guy who should be throwing strikes like crazy, and not to be subdued in the clinch by someone 3 steps below you in MT, taken down and subbed, when this guy is only a white belt as well. I'm just frustrated that it took me 2 weeks of waiting to find out that my guy won't be doing any of this fancy muay thai stuff I had imagined,he has another fight offer, and I'm sure Ill wait a week and a half to get tapped out in another 50 seconds or so...

[MMATycoon]

Dude, you must be somewhat knowledgeable about MMA if you are here playing an MMA sim. Take that knowledge into creating a fighter. What would happen if Bonjasky came into MMA with zero MMA training? It doesn't matter how good his MT is, he'd last less than a minute because he'd get taken down straight away and subbed straight away, unless he had very good wrestling. Even then, someone would probably still pull guard on him to get him to the ground, if he tried to clinch up.

 

Look no further than Peter Aerts. http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Peter-Aerts-13344

 

Just like him, in this game you might score a KO but you also might get subbed in no time flat (and I'm sure he's got at least some BJJ training, so it's still not an extreme enough example).

 

So no, you can't have a specialty if it's at the expense of everything else.

[Cenobite11]

Take a look at the top managers in the game - most have gone for standup guys. As it says on the create new fighter page though, you can't create some UFC 1 clone and expect to not get subbed. How many white belts are there in ANY modern day MMA show? Basically none, so I have no idea why anyone is creating whitebelts in the game.

 

It even says "don't create a white belt and then complain when he gets subbed in 10 seconds flat", yet here you are complaining that your white belts gets subbed in 10 seconds flat

 

Also, if you have a fighter set to 70% standup that's not a standup tactic, that's basically the tactics you'd set for a ground fighter. It means you throw 2 punches then go for a takedown. Read the instructions for the absolute sliders in detail. If you want to stay standing put it to 95% plus.

 

 

I don't know if I'm complaining that the white belt got subbed so early, mainly that a white belt shouldn't be able to tap another white belt, faster than this guy should have been knocked out after I clinched him. If someone has useless MT, how come as soon as my guy gets a hold of him with 110 MT and amazing clinch, the fights not over,or even affective? he's defending my clinch, and hitting me back. But If I get on the ground with useless BJJ against another guy who has useless BJJ, its lights out for the guy who didn't totally go for subs. My point is that BJJ is more efficient in this game, and I was pissed that I didn't just make BJJ guys. What you're saying is that if you have useless BJJ, you really really don't want to go near the ground against anyone, especially not a purple or brown belt. How come if someone with useless MT gets clinched by someone with wonderful MT, its not the same theory? They can just take the clinch(which I know is basically night night for most)

 

Also, if you have a fighter set to 70% standup that's not a standup tactic, that's basically the tactics you'd set for a ground fighter. It means you throw 2 punches then go for a takedown. Read the instructions for the absolute sliders in detail. If you want to stay standing put it to 95% plus

 

70% standup implies 10 takedown attempts, 1 wild missed combo attempt. And 1 clinch attempt in 1 round. And why would he keep shooting after being stuffed over and over again? I'm sorry its just very frustrating to use "real" technique when using sliders. And wouldn't a guy who is better on the feet naturally just know? or not try 10 takedowns in a row ? maybe mix it up? I'm sorry if I'm bitching, but I really would like to figure this out.

[MMATycoon]

If you're setting them to 100% follow your orders then they will keep doing just what you tell them to. If you set him to see how it goes then if he's doing well somewhere then he'll try and do more of that. Of course though, if he's losing everywhere then he'll just keep trying the gameplan.

 

In terms of the clinch, the other guy might have good wrestling - I don't know if he did or not cos I havent checked out the fight. I don't know if you gave them a good clinchwork value. Basically it depends on lots of things.

 

In terms of white belts tapping white belts, I don't know how good a white belt each of them are. If you're literally 1 out of 150 for BJJ then that's a lot lot worse than someone who's 10 out of 150.

[Guest]

MT is a very good secondary stat to have. But against a jitz guy he will more then likely pull guard, take you to the ground and sub you. Thats just how it works. You didn't see Anderson going for the clinch much against Leites and its for that reason. Jitz guys are good in this game because a lot of people don't understand the importantance of Defensive grapple which in my opinion is probably the most important stat in the game. If you looking to not get subbed try to have that a little higher then maybe you have it right now. I personally don't get a lot of subs I have way more TKO's then subs. It all depends on how you set up your guy.

[Boondock]

Takedown defense bro.

 

My MT guy's doing okay but I made sure to set his TD defense super high.

[PUREEVIL]

you have to have more than just MT to fight MT style, you need more than wrestling to be a good wrestler, you need more than boxing to be a boxer in this game its called MMA 1st M = MIXED meaning and assortment of verious skills all combined to create a decent fighter. i have a few guys that arnt very good at bjj but when they hit the ground they are not totaly out of there element. i went to the ground with a blue belt against a brown belt for 3 rnds on the ground and still didnt get tapped , lost a decision but not subbed. learning how to correctly use the sliders is the most important objective to me. if you thought having a bad ass MT only guy was going to make you a champ then you truely dont know anything about MMA. iv lost a couple i knew i couldnt lose and even won one i shouldnt have but thats life. iv played thousands of sim game and this is one of the best i have beeen able to play. hows your MT guy supposed to keep a fight standing against a wrestler that has strong or profficent take downs? answer , he's not he's goin down and getting his ass handed to him also try adding some defensive grappling to your game i assure it will help a lot. i have 2 white belts and neither of them has been subbed. in this instance i say to you ,, dont hate the game , hate the player , he's the one that created you to fail lol. also if you will take the time to go over the "ENTIRE " forum and read " EVERYTHING " you will understand so much more about the game and will improve your abilitys greatly thus making your time here more enjoyable. last but not least id like to say THANKS Mike for making this the most realistic most fun MMA game i have ever played now back to the gym i have a fight with an elite MT guy so im going to go do some yoga.

[MMATycoon]

Thanks for the kind words PE.

 

To sum up my thoughts for you Cenobite11, I totally understand your frustration. I'd go so far as to say that it's a good thing though. Look it it this way - if you got it right first time that would be kinda boring. Youd win all your fights and you'd be done with the site in a couple of months. I've tried to make it very complex so that it takes a long time for people to master, if indeed it can even be mastered. Of course that will make it frustrating at times but also more rewarding when you get it right.... That's one of the reasons that I play the game and don't just run it, because even though I made all the coding, I still don't even know what works in certain situations and what doesn't. I'm learning as it goes on and still changing parts of the fight engine to make it even more realistic.

 

Your own fighters and tactics will change through time, to a point where hopefully you'll have a system with which you're really happy. The key though is to enjoy the process, not just the end result. It ain't always easy but that's the fun of it

[Guest]

lots of great fighters with KO style and great takedown defense.

 

It actually turns into a great style of matchups against a good wrestler with good BJJ.

[BizzyB]

The one thing I think is a little cheese is when one fighter has zero for every post fight stat except 10 take downs and 25 sub attempts, that to me doesn't resemble any real fight I've ever seen.

[Boondock]

I totally understand your frustration. I'd go so far as to say that it's a good thing though. Look it it this way - if you got it right first time that would be kinda boring.

 

 

As frustrating as it all is, I'm addicted.

 

It's realistic though... imagine having a guy with Elite kicks getting KTFO by a BJJ guy... that'd suck.

 

Ask CroCop.

 

That's fighting.

[WhisperingDeath]

It's realistic though... imagine having a guy with Elite kicks getting KTFO by a BJJ guy... that'd suck.

Travis Lutter vs. Marvin Eastman.

[Guest]

I'm not gonna whine (that much) about my fighter loosing to a BJJ fighter (He was a brown-belt and my guy just has a blue so). I'm just curious about the "play by play"

http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=2460

 

My guy is pretty much having his way the whole fight (3 nice knees to the head and a few to the body from the clinch which was the game-plan) until he finally get's taken down and submitted, which is no surprise fighting a brown-belt... But what I don't get is, what is he subbed by?

The play by play guys are talking about a triangle, but the final verdict is that it comes from an armbar?

 

Is this just a minor glitch, or are the play by play guys a bit stupid? Or something else.

 

N'ways it was my first loss and in my other fights I haven't seen anything like this.

 

Though I'd put it in this thread instead of starting a new one. So move if this is the wrong place.

[MMATycoon]

Yeah it's just a typo in the win method. Thanks for the heads up.

[Guest]

While I agree that it is possible to get a guy down and just try sub after sub after sub.....I think Tycoon raises a valid point that most of the top 10 managers in the game it's apparent you can win by other methods.

 

Amy D - 34 wins (4 by sub)

Mike Tycoon - 30 wins (4 by sub)

Olaf Valgard - 30 wins (20 by sub)

Lord Rayden - 30 wins (7 by sub)

Drew Petersen - 25 wins (16 by sub)

Vircon Scalpes - 23 wins (7 by sub)

Dave B222 - 27 wins (20 by sub)

Jaime Lannister - 23 win (7 by sub)

Matt Mac - 26 wins (10 by sub)

Carter Hall - 23 wins (13 by sub)

 

As you can see, only four of the top 10 managers in the game have subs making up 50% of their wins or more.

 

By my math, there are 271 wins among the top 10. 108 of those victories came via sub. That's just 39.9%. Hardly an epidemic in my view. I think what the stats really show is a general dearth of DECISION wins.

[MMATycoon]

Here's the info at the moment

 

Total number of fights 2531

Fights ending by KO 689

Fights ending by Sub 1190

Fights ending by Decision 652

Fights ending as Draws 17

 

Lots of subs as you can see but the majority are at the lower end of the game where people still persist in making whitebelts or not setting up their fighters with good tactics etc. As Matt's info points out, at the top end there are a lot more KOs.

 

It's all a work in progress though so I certainly encourage people to point stuff out that they think isn't right.

[aaronno9]

In regards to the belt system.... does it just go on how high you offensive grappling is? Or does Defensive grappling play a part?

[MMATycoon]

The belts are purely on the BJJ rating.

[mgp5013]

I like to build sprawl and brawl fighters. But when I do, I am sure that they have good takedown defense, defensive grappling, agility, and balance. I have a white belt who was one the ground for a good chunk of 2 rounds with a compentent wrestler with a blue belt. Remarkably, he didn't get subbed and he won the fight by decision. You are building your fighters improperly if you are experiencing this.