MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Fight engine changes July 2015 Purpose of the changes: To create a better balance between ground and standup. To stop people holding and hoping for a ref standup on the ground. To make the fights overall a bit more fluid and dynamic. The most notable change is that after every takedown attempt, there’s now a check to see if the fighter who has been taken down can immediately bounce back to their feet. This was brought in to give value to the “escapes” skill, as part of the overall changes. The kicker, to help improve the ground game activity, is that you only attempt this escape, if you’re going to try escapes once you are on the ground. The higher your “stand and escape” slider, the more chance you’ll go for / end up with one of these immediate, bounce back up escapes. Note: the chance of escaping from the bottom has actually been left as the same, from general grappling. It was fine as it was in my opinion, people were just going for the easier option of hold and hope. So…. Referee standups have been toned down. Also, the number of moves per minute on the ground has been adjusted. It hasn’t necessarily just been increased, however, the way we calculate it is different. Wereas before it was the average of both guys’ ground aggression sliders, now it’s weighted towards the more active of the two guys. So if one guy’s going to hold and hope, it won’t matter anywhere near as much. Moving in and out of the clinch is now a little easier. Landing a takedown is a little easier (to counteract somewhat the pop back up escapes). Landing GNP from guard and half guard is a little easier. Increased the chance of counters landing on the feet, after reports that going high aggressive was winning pretty much every time. Notes for the future. Ref standups can still be improved when there is decent activity but none of it is landing / coming off… We still get standups too quick in those instances. However, the changes should help to mitigate that somewhat, till I do a rework. This hasn’t ever been discussed before but I think it’s potentially a good idea if we add clinch takedowns and clinch takedown defense as separate things to standup based takedowns / takedown defense. Perhaps people will think this is just too many skills to be training / setting coaches up for but I think it would create a lot more variety in fighter builds. Strikers would obviously need both forms of takedown defense but ground guys theoretically would only need one type of takedown offense…. I’ve been watching lots of fight tape recently because of the betmma.tips stuff and it’s re-acquainted me with types of gameplan that fighters come in with. A LOT more fights end up on the ground because of clinch takedowns than double leg takedowns and I think that could be improved in game by splitting the forms of takedown into clinch / non clinch. Let me know if you have any issues. Cheers! 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyosullivan Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Always interesting to see how managers react after a change to the fight engine. Hoping I wont have to adjust my tactics too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 although im scared of the changes as im on the roll of my life, that list of improvements looks good to me. One thing that raised a brow was MAYBE adding more skills to train, not mad keen on the thought of it but perhaps it would be beneficial. Anyway, lets just see how these changes go then we can cross that bridge later. The new era has begun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 yeah i think thats a decent idea to add, here is also my list: Clinch Damage / Acc Ground top Damage / Acc Head / Body Elbow head / Punch Head Knee Body / Punch Body 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 also whats the ratio on the counter strike effectiveness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 the clinch takedowns and takedown d could be interesting (being trip takedowns and throws) -- i also think as some have stated that attempted takedowns should end up in the clinch more often (being that your set to clinch some) -- see many many takedowns get stuffed but end up clinched up -- not sure how often it happens here but i don't see if very much edited: also think more skills would be good thing -- keep fighters from being so perfect in all skills -- adding more skills that are needed without raising the cap would make fighters more diverse -- also i know its been escapes but just wondering if scrambles would maybe be better name for the skill -- cause to start with it seemed that escapes would be helpful in escaping subs or defending them somewhat not that would be used to get back to feet -- but no big deal really 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 This hasn’t ever been discussed before but I think it’s potentially a good idea if we add clinch takedowns and clinch takedown defense as separate things to standup based takedowns / takedown defense. Perhaps people will think this is just too many skills to be training / setting coaches up for but I think it would create a lot more variety in fighter builds. Strikers would obviously need both forms of takedown defense but ground guys theoretically would only need one type of takedown offense…. I’ve been watching lots of fight tape recently because of the betmma.tips stuff and it’s re-acquainted me with types of gameplan that fighters come in with. A LOT more fights end up on the ground because of clinch takedowns than double leg takedowns and I think that could be improved in game by splitting the forms of takedown into clinch / non clinch. Let me know if you have any issues. Cheers! The clinch takedowns and takedown defense would imo actually be really good and add another level. I can see it putting some people off since it's more skills but in this case it makes sense as its very realistic, some dude have the shittiest takedowns at range but once in the clinch it's a whole different story. Looking forward to these changes, I hope they work like you want them to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 the clinch takedowns and takedown d could be interesting (being trip takedowns and throws) -- i also think as some have stated that attempted takedowns should end up in the clinch more often (being that your set to clinch some) -- see many many takedowns get stuffed but end up clinched up -- not sure how often it happens here but i don't see if very much edited: also think more skills would be good thing -- keep fighters from being so perfect in all skills -- adding more skills that are needed without raising the cap would make fighters more diverse yeah we can bump takedowns ending up in the clinch if people think that's not happening enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 The clinch takedowns and takedown defense would imo actually be really good and add another level. I can see it putting some people off since it's more skills but in this case it makes sense as its very realistic, some dude have the shittiest takedowns at range but once in the clinch it's a whole different story. yea one thing is speed seems to get more takedowns at range but strength gets more takedowns in the clinch -- so thats something else to think about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 My one point I'd make to everyone... If you happen to get a fight where you're a ground fighter and your opponent bounces back to his feet two out of two takedowns, don't freak out too much. That will happen sometimes but yeah... give it time over a few fights to see what you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Seems like ground fighters will benefit more from the escapes rule as standup fighters now need another skill and its easier to take people down now, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 yea one thing is speed seems to get more takedowns at range but strength gets more takedowns in the clinch -- so thats something else to think about That's already programmed into things at the moment, which is why one could argue it's not really needed... But I tihnk there's enough difference in technique to have them as two different skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poraan Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Future p4p1 Pulkkinen. What happens to guys that dont want to be on ground and dont have escapes? Like in grappler vs grappler fights. Escaping from top should be possible even without escapes skill. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rac2 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I love the changes and I think the clinch takedowns update is a great idea for the future. Hope we can reallocate skills (or a similar system) for that when it's implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Future p4p1 Pulkkinen. What happens to guys that dont want to be on ground and dont have escapes? Like in grappler vs grappler fights. Escaping from top should be possible even without escapes skill. that's transitions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Future p4p1 Pulkkinen. What happens to guys that dont want to be on ground and dont have escapes? Like in grappler vs grappler fights. Escaping from top should be possible even without escapes skill. yea i dont know but would think that would more towards grappling d if your on top wanting to stand up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjs2442 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 that's transitions. That makes perfect sense! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Not sure how I feel about new skills for clinch takedowns/takedown defense. If you want to go this specific for different kinds of takedowns then why not go specific for all the other skills? Striking defense in the clinch for example is much different than from distance. Defense grappling from the bottom is much different than from the top. Reversing from top to bottom is much different from passing guard etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjs2442 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 the clinch takedowns and takedown d could be interesting (being trip takedowns and throws) -- i also think as some have stated that attempted takedowns should end up in the clinch more often (being that your set to clinch some) -- see many many takedowns get stuffed but end up clinched up -- not sure how often it happens here but i don't see if very much edited: also think more skills would be good thing -- keep fighters from being so perfect in all skills -- adding more skills that are needed without raising the cap would make fighters more diverse -- also i know its been escapes but just wondering if scrambles would maybe be better name for the skill -- cause to start with it seemed that escapes would be helpful in escaping subs or defending them somewhat not that would be used to get back to feet -- but no big deal really I agree with this one also (failed takedowns ending up in the clinch), I dont really recall if it happens regularly or not but think it should end in the clinch at least a portion of the time as is the case in the really real world! This could also prove to be a double whammy as the fighter trying for the takedown may not have clinch skills and could possibly open him up to be raped in the clinch by a MT specialist. Which would mean the need even more to make sure your clinch game is trained up taking away potential points from ground skills. Win/Win in the end really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniConor Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I feel like failed takedowns should result in the clinch a lot more than it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 i also think the failed escape should have a effect on energy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 i also think the failed escape should have a effect on energy Pretty sure it does. Also if I remember correctly (I havent used escapes in over one real life year at least. When you fail to escape there is also a chance that you will end up in a worse position. Pretty sure I lost my back a couple times off a failed escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpierrecanada Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Awesome!!! Great job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted July 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 yeah you can lose position by trying to bounce back up escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario.Jay Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Great changes, I hope so we soon have clinch takedown deff and off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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