Shady Tactics

[TK]

TK you may be a good dude, but the move is still considered shady. Trying to deny it's shady with some of the arguments you've used just kinda made you look bad even if your not.

 

 

You know what, I am honestly shocked at the level of negativity the move and myself has received. For someone who's done so much good for people in the game, I'm not gonna lie, I'm pretty hurt actually.

 

But, I'll say with hand on heart, I honestly don't think it's shady. I regret it now, obviously, but I've seen dozens, maybe hundreds of examples where good fighters have been released with 1/1 contracts over 99 fights and two years or more. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not a piss taker, and I really don't think 4k/6k over 5 is a rip-off, as many others have agreed.

 

I don't know what the split is for those calling it shady or not, but it pains me that even anyone is.

[TK]

You really have thin skin, don't you. What most of us (myself included) have said is that THIS PARTICULAR ACTION is shady. That doesn't make you, your friends, your cat or your neighbor shady. You yourself said earlier in this thread that "nothing is black and white", and still you resort to childish tantrums when people disagree on ONE action they find morally ambigious.

 

Please, tell me what a horrible person I am for questioning your motives in this particular case.

 

 

Mannetosen, if you're unable to see what I've been saying, we shouldn't continue whatever we have going here. I don't think you're a horrible person, but this isn't the first time this has happened between us, and I'm not interested in trying hard to show something to somebody that can't see it.

 

People are judged by their actions, and for some to call the move shady means some are judging me on it.

[Guest]

Mannetosen, if you're unable to see what I've been saying, we shouldn't continue whatever we have going here. I don't think you're a horrible person, but this isn't the first time this has happened between us, and I'm not interested in trying hard to show something to somebody that can't see it.

 

People are judged by their actions, and for some to call the move shady means some are judging me on it.

 

I see perfectly clearly, thank you. We've been in this position before because you get insulted by completely trivial shit that isn't intended to harm anyone.

 

People are judged by their actions, but one bad action alone won't outweight many good actions. Nobody is claiming anything else than you helping out tons of new players. Your good karma outweights this case pretty easily, and also makes people question this action because you don't seem like the kind of guy who'd do something "shady" from the outside, anyways. I'm not trying to insult you, or hurt you, I'm trying to explain why this mistake doesn't make you a bad human being.

[Guest]

Pretty sure it doesn't matter what you did in the past. This incident seems shady. Just because you are helpful in most every situation, does not change what you did at this time. 4k/6k really does seem like crap pay for a fighter with his hype+pop. Just because it isn't 1k/3k, doesn't make it any better.

 

You seem like a helpful person. A very common name in helpful threads. You just seem to be in the wrong in this case, and validating your actions by saying everyone else does it, does not help anything.

 

If you plan on releasing the fighter if the new owner asks, why not just release the fighter now? Don't know if you said you would, but I thought I read a post saying you said you would.

 

ALSO: As a side note. Those 1/1/1 contracts can now be nullified by their new managers. Not sure how high it goes, but I think 100 might be the line.

 

Tried looking for a source on this, but I am not finding it. Maybe it is something I made up.

[TK]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure someone like Matty isn't just trying to be a smart-ass. As he also runs a respected org and has also been a great community member, I feel that his criticisms are coming from a good place (a genuine concern for the game and the community). I do agree though that the backlash against you specifically is unreasonable given that it is a standard practice and that in this situation you acted much less unfairly than others. If the issue is with that common practice, then we can discuss possible changes to deal with that. But jumping on TK for this doesn't really seem productive or even really that justified.

 

 

I agree, Matty is normally a good dude, but he made some comments which were unwarranted. My alliance is more than respectable, not that they had any knowledge of this, and I've done more than my fair share of, "trying to improve" the community, so naturally took offence.

[toejam98]

The problem is, is that first your argument was that "people do it way worse so its ok if i do it as long as i dont do it as bad as them." Now your argument has shifted into, "well its ok because ive done so much to help everyone out"

 

Shady is shady regardless of how much good you've done.

 

Barry Bonds has recently offered to pay the College Tution for 2 Children of the San Fransisco Giants fan who recently got beaten into a coma after a game.

 

This generous move does not make the fact that he juiced for 10 years ok.

 

Does that make sense?

[Guest]

I shit my pants pretty regularly too, guys.

[j666]

fukn dramaqueens.

 

i see quite a few people in this thread that have done some things (quite a few things) that are frowned upon (at least WERE at one point), acting as if they've never done anything wrong and are fighting for the "moral fabric" of the game.

 

morals are NOT absolute.

 

...and to think that some people want the game slowed down. lol...it's so slow now, that we get threads like this and all the "he's a multi!" threads becuz people get bored or just have way too much time on their hands.

 

mannetosen - matty is a master at saying without saying. i know this becuz i am a master as well. we do things like that so we can rile someone up, then when they get upset, we can jump all over their psychological by showing that we never ACTUALLY said what we were obviously meaning. it's a nice trick and one learned early on by all social assassins. of course, he will read this and make some monster claim about how i am always right and never wrong, yet he does the exact same thing. perhaps that's why we don't get along?

[JamesCozad]

The problem is, is that first your argument was that "people do it way worse so its ok if i do it as long as i dont do it as bad as them." Now your argument has shifted into, "well its ok because ive done so much to help everyone out"

 

Shady is shady regardless of how much good you've done.

 

Barry Bonds has recently offered to pay the College Tution for 2 Children of the San Fransisco Giants fan who recently got beaten into a coma after a game.

 

This generous move does not make the fact that he juiced for 10 years ok.

 

Does that make sense?

 

I was gonna post something a lot like this myself, but you basically took the gist of it out of my head. Props, and QFT.

[j666]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46bBWBG9r2o

[Guest]

 

mannetosen - matty is a master at saying without saying. i know this becuz i am a master as well. we do things like that so we can rile someone up, then when they get upset, we can jump all over their psychological by showing that we never ACTUALLY said what we were obviously meaning. it's a nice trick and one learned early on by all social assassins. of course, he will read this and make some monster claim about how i am always right and never wrong, yet he does the exact same thing. perhaps that's why we don't get along?

 

I know exactly what Matty means about this case. I also know exactly what he's saying.

 

Also:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvP0uwl3Q6A

[j666]

I know exactly what Matty means about this case. I also know exactly what he's saying.

 

Also:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvP0uwl3Q6A

as do i.

 

funny thing is: no one's allowed to disagree with him or they get jumped by about 15 people, yet everyone else is supposed to have "thick skin" and "take it".

[Guest]

as do i.

 

funny thing is: no one's allowed to disagree with him or they get jumped by about 15 people, yet everyone else is supposed to have "thick skin" and "take it".

 

I don't see where you get this from. Personally I call shit as I see it at least, I just happen to agree with him more often than not.

[Guest]

i may be on an island here, but i think that what TK did was a solid move actually. he picked up a free agent and signed him to a pretty darn good offer really. also, having dealt with TK briefly in this game and to a much larger extent, withnessed the countless good deeds that he's done for ppl in this game i have know doubts whatsoever that he had every intention of putting a more qualified deal together after the FA was picked back up. it's a tricky bussiness signing FA's simply because you never know what a fighter will be like once another manager takes him over. he could turn around and lose his next 10 fights in a row if the wrong manager gets him. then what? you're left holding the bag with a crappy fighter? it's a balancing act where you have to put a good deal together so that the fighter will be picked back up. but at the same time, you have to look out for yourself not to get screwed if the wrong manager picks him up.....after all, it's a lot easier to give a fighter a pay raise after the fact than it is to drop his pay. dont you think?....so i think there's more at work here than what ppl have cared to find out

 

so i think honestly that TK did the best job that he could do to give out what i think is a very fair offer to a fighter with an uncertain future. in my opinion, that's a good bussiness move....that also possesses a risk. simply because TK was genuine enough to hand out a fair contract.

 

i've never fell into the logic of "if 100 ppl do it then why cant i" so im not defending any of that thought process. i'm just looking objectively at what i see in this situation and TK really didnt do anything that is wrong in my opinion. again, he gave a pretty damn fair contract to a guy with an uncertain future. anything more would have been a foolish move and poor bussiness management in my opinion.

 

it seems to me that this style of thread is awfully similar to multi account threads. a lot of ppl that are most likely guilty of the same action themselves but as soon as it's not them on the hot seat then they go full tilt crawling somebody else's ass...that's the saddest part of it

 

 

 

also, Mr. Clean, whether or not you make celebrity status with this thread or not, it's innevitable that you make celebrity status in probly no more than a month from now as you climb up,up,up the rankings. go get'em big papa! they stack'em up...you knock'em down

[Guest]

and signed him to a pretty darn good offer really.

 

I dont have a dog in this fight, but REALLY? Aight, you think I could have Wonka over for a superfight if he wins his next fight? Since that's such a pretty darn good offer i'll give you 3/4 of that seeing as your hype+pop isnt anywhere near his. Deal?

 

Also

he could turn around and lose his next 10 fights in a row if the wrong manager gets him. then what? you're left holding the bag with a crappy fighter?

bullshit, you pay for a fighter's hype+pop, if he loses ten fights he will have brought someone else up and headlined some events and earned you a lot of money in the process.

[Guest]

fukn dramaqueens.

 

i see quite a few people in this thread that have done some things (quite a few things) that are frowned upon (at least WERE at one point), acting as if they've never done anything wrong and are fighting for the "moral fabric" of the game.

 

morals are NOT absolute.

 

...and to think that some people want the game slowed down. lol...it's so slow now, that we get threads like this and all the "he's a multi!" threads becuz people get bored or just have way too much time on their hands.

 

mannetosen - matty is a master at saying without saying. i know this becuz i am a master as well. we do things like that so we can rile someone up, then when they get upset, we can jump all over their psychological by showing that we never ACTUALLY said what we were obviously meaning. it's a nice trick and one learned early on by all social assassins. of course, he will read this and make some monster claim about how i am always right and never wrong, yet he does the exact same thing. perhaps that's why we don't get along?

boy, i couldnt agree more with this post. fucking spot on!!!

 

 

 

also, just for sake of saying it. does no one even realize that memorial day weekend is here!?!? leave your damn computers and enjoy the most fabulous weekend of the year! i promise you, a fun time awaits just beyond your doorsteps!!! let's make it happen! OOO WEE! hot blondes in string bikini's, steaks on the grill and cold beer by the lake! hot damn, we'll see yall tuesday! im out! have fun forum bashing

[Guest]

Also

 

bullshit, you pay for a fighter's hype+pop, if he loses ten fights he will have brought someone else up and headlined some events and earned you a lot of money in the process.

 

I'm not saying he isn't worth more but people shouldn't get completely stuck on hype+pop when it comes to what they are worth as far as contracts. Sure, for one event the hype+pop is all that matters but hype is the only part that actually matters to the opponent. That means you can't really give him perfect match ups as nobody want to fight that much down in rank since they stand to lose a lot and gain nothing. It also means that if he loses, which he likely will, his opponents won't gain much from it. If you beat someone with high hype you gain a lot of hype but if you beat someone with a lot of pop it doesn't affect the winners pop any more than any other win as far as I know. So he's good for a couple of events and that's about it unless he manages to keep winning.

[Guest]

I'm not labeling you as anything - I am just reading your posts.

 

And let's not intimate that I'm taking shots at Barn or Halo here. My comment you referenced was more in the hypocrisy of others who bash AA, but don't do the same to a group that is more 'popular' if you will. However, with how this thread is going, I don't blame you for trying to change the subject here!

 

I may be out of the loop, but last time I checked, AA was bashed because he/she/it/whatever that fucking thing was, was a complete asshole to everyone here. It didn't help that AA tried to hide it by saying "oh this is her mother, oh this is her friend using her account" or some shit like that.

 

It's not exactly hypocritical. AA had a bad rep, and deserved the shit coming towards it. TK is perfectly fine, and he has a good rep.

[jacky67]

No, it's just descended into petty insults and people trying to make themselves look good by quoting multiple posts, when it's obvious what's been going on.

 

It's a shame because most everyone who has joined in to attack me should know me better. It's disappointing because as most of these people should know, I've gone out of my way for a long time to help people, contribute positively in the forums, run a very well respected org and generally be a good member of the community. But, because a few people have taken offence to what is a very common practice, done much, much more unfairly by most, others have joined in, in typical forum style, to have pops or be smart-asses.

 

 

Ur right but it don't work likethat on the forum , you have some guys like matty and others who like fuel some shit and acting like they are not talking some shit about you .

[TK]

The problem is, is that first your argument was that "people do it way worse so its ok if i do it as long as i dont do it as bad as them." Now your argument has shifted into, "well its ok because ive done so much to help everyone out"

 

Shady is shady regardless of how much good you've done.

 

Barry Bonds has recently offered to pay the College Tution for 2 Children of the San Fransisco Giants fan who recently got beaten into a coma after a game.

 

This generous move does not make the fact that he juiced for 10 years ok.

 

Does that make sense?

 

 

 

No, my only argument, and one which I stand by, is that it's common practice and I've not taken the piss.

 

Me bringing up the good I've done is in response to Matty suggesting that I don't try to improve things, which is rubbish, and again something which I'll stand by.

[TK]

i may be on an island here, but i think that what TK did was a solid move actually. he picked up a free agent and signed him to a pretty darn good offer really. also, having dealt with TK briefly in this game and to a much larger extent, withnessed the countless good deeds that he's done for ppl in this game i have know doubts whatsoever that he had every intention of putting a more qualified deal together after the FA was picked back up. it's a tricky bussiness signing FA's simply because you never know what a fighter will be like once another manager takes him over. he could turn around and lose his next 10 fights in a row if the wrong manager gets him. then what? you're left holding the bag with a crappy fighter? it's a balancing act where you have to put a good deal together so that the fighter will be picked back up. but at the same time, you have to look out for yourself not to get screwed if the wrong manager picks him up.....after all, it's a lot easier to give a fighter a pay raise after the fact than it is to drop his pay. dont you think?....so i think there's more at work here than what ppl have cared to find out

 

so i think honestly that TK did the best job that he could do to give out what i think is a very fair offer to a fighter with an uncertain future. in my opinion, that's a good bussiness move....that also possesses a risk. simply because TK was genuine enough to hand out a fair contract.

 

i've never fell into the logic of "if 100 ppl do it then why cant i" so im not defending any of that thought process. i'm just looking objectively at what i see in this situation and TK really didnt do anything that is wrong in my opinion. again, he gave a pretty damn fair contract to a guy with an uncertain future. anything more would have been a foolish move and poor bussiness management in my opinion.

 

it seems to me that this style of thread is awfully similar to multi account threads. a lot of ppl that are most likely guilty of the same action themselves but as soon as it's not them on the hot seat then they go full tilt crawling somebody else's ass...that's the saddest part of it

 

 

 

also, Mr. Clean, whether or not you make celebrity status with this thread or not, it's innevitable that you make celebrity status in probly no more than a month from now as you climb up,up,up the rankings. go get'em big papa! they stack'em up...you knock'em down

 

 

 

Thanks man. It's nice to know that not everyone has conveniently forgotten how active and positive I have pretty much always been in this game.

But then, some will twist things, hypocritically, to make themselves look good, appear big and to appease their band of merry men.

[jacky67]

matty is a master at saying without saying. i know this becuz i am a master as well. we do things like that so we can rile someone up, then when they get upset,

 

 

Nop matty talk likethat because he is a big pussy , you see i don't use the "he could be a big pussy or could not be " .

 

And honestly i didn't remember you not beeing franc on the forum .

 

Matty is just jealous because he wanted this free agent .

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46bBWBG9r2o

 

Best post of the thread

[Guest]

This kind of topic and subsequent bullshit arguing and overreaction is why I consider leaving this fucking game on an almost daily basis.

[Guest]

this is very interesting. i never knew this sort of practice was frowned upon (given it was a decent contract n not some bullshit).

 

i got no beef either way really...i will say this tho. i've had fighters in some highly respected orgs and every time i've released a fighter (except in the really old non-vip days), he was re-signed (sometimes with an accepted fight offer) prior to release and i drain all money out of his account. i usually leave the supps and clothes (maybe delete the custom stuff), pay for the move to the org's city (if he's from out of town) and unless there's an accepted fight offer, i always reset the sliders lol.

 

I still reset the sliders and just set him to 100% SHIG.

[Guest]

It's shady but this stuff happens all the time.

Is it, in my opinion, an affront to the spirit of the rules? Yes...

 

But is it so egregious of an offence that is deserves its own forum post? Probably not.