MMATycoon Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 "Previously, it was always better to go 1 on 1 with the coach. That's still normally the case but if you can get training with one training partner who is significantly better than you, that's now very marginally the best training possible." I guess "significantly better" should rather be read as 50 points more than 10 points more right? Regards /Ztarken maybe 30 points more, off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I don't seem to have a graph of the group sizes changes on the Training Changes Help page. It mentions one in the text but I don't see it. Has it been removed? Can any one paste it here? Cheers Yeah I took it down I've taken on board some of the stuff about info overload. I think if I just emphasise that it's good and not give too many specifics then people will chill and see how it goes. Regarding slowing down at top levels, I probably won't do that so we can just avoid complaining - we'll see. Maybe we'll shave another week off the game year and leave top level training speeds as they are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italscratch Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 Kane is a very very bad example. He was dominating under the old fighting system, because he was making up for mediocre hiddens by great training and sliders. Since the engine changed, hiddens are worlds apart more important and he just cannot cover the lack of them anymore - its not like Sonny has bad sliders, there really is nothing to do when opponent has sufficiently higher confidence + intelligence + ko power compared to your heart + chin. It has nothing to do with age or evolution, the rules of game changed and he simply isnt good enough to be top for the new rules. I think Kane's hiddens got him where he was, in addition to sliders. You have to remember that he started with 22 years so his skills weren't that good as you make it sound. But anyway, you do make a point that hiddens are game changer now, which in turn make training less important, hence we shouldn't fuss over it very much. Also, you have to take luck (this is percentage game anyway) into account bigtime, as I sometimes get feeling that if same fight played again lets say 10 times,with identical settings, we would get whole plethora of outcomes that aren't even close. Both ways. (I'm willing to try this with one of my fighters against someone; 10 fights, immediately after 100% energy and w/o injury/cuts same slider settings, have to be old guy(my oldest is 26) so skills dont change too much in between, slider screenshot on the forums and let's bang.) Things change too fast and too much imo as nowdays I don't even know how will fighter react to counter/agressive mode and what to expect of sliders in some of my fights; it turned into let's try this and hope for the best. Then your elite SD, elite phyical guy with better primaries then opponent gets tagged by almost everything, on counter setting and you wonder and wonder what went wrong...Vent your anger somewhere else and start to care less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I think Kane's hiddens got him where he was, in addition to sliders. You have to remember that he started with 22 years so his skills weren't that good as you make it sound. But anyway, you do make a point that hiddens are game changer now, which in turn make training less important, hence we shouldn't fuss over it very much. Also, you have to take luck (this is percentage game anyway) into account bigtime, as I sometimes get feeling that if same fight played again lets say 10 times,with identical settings, we would get whole plethora of outcomes that aren't even close. Both ways. (I'm willing to try this with one of my fighters against someone; 10 fights, immediately after 100% energy and w/o injury/cuts same slider settings, have to be old guy(my oldest is 26) so skills dont change too much in between, slider screenshot on the forums and let's bang.) Thats Kane getting cut, rocked, KOed by 4 head punches - http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=407083 . Thats juts not enough chin/heart no matter how you put it and I really dont see a way how to go through a fight as a striker without taking 4 head shots in a round. Hiddens make training less important, but they also make sliders less important and thats what Im fussing about - if 70 - 90 % of a fights outcome is determined by variables I have no influence on and luck, then really thats something to fuss about in my book. Im all up for the fighting experiment - I ll see what of my guys got short contracts left so we can set something up, thing is most types go over large amount of strikes so the luck should even out (as opposed to striker vs grappler as thats basically always a series of coin tosses - either the grappler gets early-in-rounds TDs or not, provided one isnt overwhelmed on hiddens). Things change too fast and too much imo as nowdays I don't even know how will fighter react to counter/agressive mode and what to expect of sliders in some of my fights; it turned into let's try this and hope for the best. Then your elite SD, elite phyical guy with better primaries then opponent gets tagged by almost everything, on counter setting and you wonder and wonder what went wrong...Vent your anger somewhere else and start to care less. Exactly, basically its like I lost all the orientation in sliders and results of all experiments are "what I do has no impact". Also, there are fights like this http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=431698 - a guy with better primaries, not worse secondaries and not worse physicals just decides that, for the first time after 26 fights, hes just too cool to do anything and stands there getting murdered. For absolutely no reason - took like 0 damage for a long time as he got cut in 2nd round, normally that happens in first 3 punches - other than being 15 cms shorter (which hasnt mattered since the engine change, so really either hidden engine changes or I dunno). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showdown Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I think Kane's hiddens got him where he was, in addition to sliders. You have to remember that he started with 22 years so his skills weren't that good as you make it sound. I think if you talk to Swan Song, he would tell you it was the skills. I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure he or a close pal fairly recently said Kane was winning largely due to having vastly superior skills to other top fighters during his reign at the top. I'm sure sliders also played a big role in it. But I really don't think it was hiddens. I don't think Kane's hiddens are total crap, but they certainly weren't among the highest in the game. That said, I do think that at the point we are at in the game right now, hiddens are the biggest factor in fights. That could just be me being hopeful, because my sliders are pretty crap to be honest. But I've tried all kinds of different sliders with guys, and the guys with good hiddens continue to win regardless, and the guys with bad hiddens continue to lose regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 Another great improvement would be to add gym specific "save as default". As in when choosing "save as default" it will be specific for that gym and that you could "load default settings" when changing back to your old gym. It would help out and making changing gyms more attractive. And it doesn't feel like a too big programming project. Correct me if this is already implemented. Regards /Ztarken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted May 5, 2012 Report Share Posted May 5, 2012 I don't think it does currently but no problem, I've get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topologies Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 maybe 30 points more, off the top of my head. does this mean the specific secondary or are we basing on stars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2012 Report Share Posted May 6, 2012 I don't think it does currently but no problem, I've get it done. Thanks mike great addition (saving gym settings for your fighter specifically to each gym) /ZZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 does this mean the specific secondary or are we basing on stars? Off stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italscratch Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hiddens make training less important, but they also make sliders less important and thats what Im fussing about - if 70 - 90 % of a fights outcome is determined by variables I have no influence on and luck, then really thats something to fuss about in my book. Good point. My thoughts exactly. Im all up for the fighting experiment - I ll see what of my guys got short contracts left so we can set something up, thing is most types go over large amount of strikes so the luck should even out (as opposed to striker vs grappler as thats basically always a series of coin tosses - either the grappler gets early-in-rounds TDs or not, provided one isnt overwhelmed on hiddens). We can do both with less fights, 5 for striker/striker and 5 for striker/grappler. Shit, we could also do grappler/grappler Send a message when you find some fighter to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toejam98 Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Understandable, but technically your just the "manager," Sliders are still very important, but it's still up to the fighter to go out and fight, so I personally like the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italscratch Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 Understandable, but technically your just the "manager," Technically just manager who sets his training, dictate his supplements, manages his tickers, "work my ass" off so he can have private gym, hell i even buy and change his clothes. Just sayin Hiddens like heart,intelligence and confidence have major effect (maybe too much) on how those skills and sliders will work. With chin and ko power it's pretty much straightforward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 Off stars. -=This post is about coaches sessions not sparring=- I don't follow you here Mike. Say my project got 50 points in punches and 50 points in boxing and is rated as 3 star. Wouldnt a 3 star sparring partner with for eg 100 points in punches help me out more to share the coach 2on1 in that session than having a 5 star boxing fighter with only 20 points in punches? I thought it was the secondary (punches) value you meant in you post about training punches with a significantly better extra fighter in you punches session (2on1). Thus it should be based of secondary skill of the "extra" fighter not of his "starrating"? Which ever is ok for me, I'm just asking for a clarification Regards /Ztarken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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