Overeem?

[Erik]

BTW, if i remember correctly Cro Cop turned the fight down because they tried to put Fedor into the finals of the GP without fighting his way through the tournament. BTW when did Cro Cop become some test? He was a product of the over hyped compeition. In fact Pride was built on UFC rejects from their first event. They were always a step behind the UFC because they were running on UFC trash. Name 1 other a time a pure kickboxer or K-1 guy had any success in MMA? It never happened. ONLY in Pride was Cro Cop and his piss poor MMA skills a threat. ONLY in Pride could Mark Hunt work his way into the top 5. Which let me tell ya that is a real feat considering the Pride top 10 changed about of much as the 10 Commandments.

 

Fedor would've entered the GP in the spot Wandy ended up taking, but his hand was still broken (which is why he sat out the first round -- Pride was holding his spot hoping he'd recover but he didn't), Cro Cop ended up winning the tournament and instead of taking a fight with Fedor on NYE he ran away to fight Eddie Sanchez (while Hunt got a shot at Fedor).

 

As for the pure kickboxer part: no pure kickboxer would've mounted Josh Barnett repeatedly. Also if you recall the UFC HW division of the era was overrun with kickboxers who had fuck all wrestling or ground games: Sylvia, Arlovski, Buentello, Eilers all fought for or held the UFC belt at that point.

 

 

Also, as you mentioned Anderson Silva: he got utterly dominated by Daiju Takase in Pride lol -- we're talking complete domination at the hands of a guy with a 4-7 record.

[Guest]

 

Also, as you mentioned Anderson Silva: he got utterly dominated by Daiju Takase in Pride lol -- we're talking complete domination at the hands of a guy with a 4-7 record.

 

 

BrainWasher thinkh that Anderson got paid to loose

[Eveas]

It is spelled lose.

[jacky67]

Let me guess, you put the family business on Lombard?

 

Dude just watch jds vs nelson and jds vs carwin ?

 

And watch Werdum vs roy Nelson.

 

Anyone that wanna bet on Jds i bet on Overeem for the win , 200K , plus i'll pay if i lose the bet.

 

Ur scared manneken pis ?

[jacky67]

ONLY in Pride could Mark Hunt work his way into the top 5. Which let me tell ya that is a real feat considering the Pride top 10 changed about of much as the 10 Commandments.

 

Mark Hunt is really close to the top in UFC now.

[Guest]

 

Anyone that wanna bet on Jds i bet on Overeem for the win , 200K , plus i'll pay if i lose the bet.

 

Ur scared manneken pis ?

 

Hahahhaha, I'll give you credit for that insult.

 

200k on JDS beating Overeem. I'm in.

[jacky67]

Hahahhaha, I'll give you credit for that insult.

 

200k on JDS beating Overeem. I'm in.

 

Now i'm even more hurry than before for the fight.

[Guest]

You already owe someone 1 mill, I wouldn't trust that you'd pay up on a bingo card if you didn't win.

[Guest]

No risk for me anyhow, Overeem is waking up with a flashlight in his face.

[jacky67]

You already owe someone 1 mill, I wouldn't trust that you'd pay up on a bingo card if you didn't win.

 

I don't owe 1M to anyone, and i said to manneken pis that i'll pay if i lose the bet i.e overeem lose.

 

dude i guess you wanted the bet too, find someone else that's wanna bet on overeem en of story.

[Guest]

I trust my good friend jacques69 anyways, so that's a non-issue.

[Eveas]

plus i'll pay if i lose the bet.

Hahahahaha!

[Guest]

Fedor would've entered the GP in the spot Wandy ended up taking, but his hand was still broken (which is why he sat out the first round -- Pride was holding his spot hoping he'd recover but he didn't), Cro Cop ended up winning the tournament and instead of taking a fight with Fedor on NYE he ran away to fight Eddie Sanchez (while Hunt got a shot at Fedor).

 

As for the pure kickboxer part: no pure kickboxer would've mounted Josh Barnett repeatedly. Also if you recall the UFC HW division of the era was overrun with kickboxers who had fuck all wrestling or ground games: Sylvia, Arlovski, Buentello, Eilers all fought for or held the UFC belt at that point.

 

 

Also, as you mentioned Anderson Silva: he got utterly dominated by Daiju Takase in Pride lol -- we're talking complete domination at the hands of a guy with a 4-7 record.

 

 

Sylvia had good takedown defense and ground defense. Proven when he fought Monson who Fedor ducked on 3 different accasions until Monson was way past his prime. That is a fact. In fact Monson was already choosen to fight Fedor in Bodog and was replaced after the fact by 185 Matt Lindland. A little later we got to see how picky and how much leverage Fedor had in who he fought. Fedor and his camp refused to fight Monson and it wasnt the first time either.

 

Arlovski has a sambo background and through this has decent sub game and takedown defense. This was clear when he stuffed Vlady in their fight. You are grasping for any branch to save you from drowning. You are trying to compare 4 fighters who spent many many years training in MMA with Cro Cop who walked straight into MMA with a few months of training and beat everyone Pride had because the takedown level and wrestling level was so weak in Pride. Which is not surprising when the only wrestlers are guys who were booted from the UFC on long losing streaks and 40 years old.

 

 

I will give you credit though. You passion for fake MMA is only matched by my passion for real MMA. Debating with you is like debating with a WWE fan who is trying to convience mke Hulk Hogan would beat up Overeem! They know all the WWE history and quote everyone Hogan beat but refuse to con tto terms with the fact their match ups were fake therefore meaningless. I counter with Overeem smashed Brock and has won K-1 GP and they say Well Hogan beat Sargent Slaughter! Both of you are in a fantasy land.

 

This is proved by how you act like it is meaningful that Cro Cop mounted Barnett. This is the same Barnett who spent most of his years after leaving the UFC in Pro Wrestling and moonlighting in MMA. The same Barnett who was out wrestling by NOg who i think has the worst wrestling in MMA. at least i thought until he put Barnett on his back. At the time i felt Barnett wrestling was on par with Ricco Rodriguez. BUt clearly it wasnt close. Maybe at one time but not after years in Pro Wrestling.

[Guest]

Mark Hunt is really close to the top in UFC now.

 

 

 

LMAO!!! Sure he is. Nothing like beating the worst guys in the UFC to get to the top. It takes beating more than a perfect match up with Kongo to be top 5. Kongo has a suspect chin and has been scared to stand with people since right before he fought Herring over 4 years ago. I would rank him #1 if he could just beat Brendan Schaub. He couldnt even beat that level of fighter. Forget about ground fighters that have always owned him like Mir, a rematch with Not, Barnett, Overeem, etc. Hell even Gonzaga would kill him. When are you noobs going to learn that strining together a few wins doesnt make you the best fighter in the world. lol

[Guest]

He scared

http://mmabadass.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Cheick-Kongo-KO-of-Pat-Barry.gif

[Guest]

KOngo is weird. Up until the Herring fight he was a beast offensively and i knew Herring had power. But both had some of the worst takedown defense ever. I was really looking forward to this fight as i felt it would be a brawl. I was at this event live in Ohio. I thought i was at Ohio State wrestling practice. Both of them dove at each others feet and the fight took place on the ground the entire time. Ever since Kongo has avoid anyone who has a decent punch like the plague. For the record i felt Herring won their fight. Kongo for rd 1 easily but Herring easily won the last 2 rounds.

[Guest]

Its probably better that kickboxer are ranked top10 not NLF player and of course in 2012 not it 2000. And of course not to mention that Hunt is also top10 ranked now in UFC.

 

 

 

Hunt wasnt 10th in Prdie. He was top 4-6 in all of MMA because boobs like you fell for the hype that Pride was light years ahead of the UFC. I remember it like yesterday. HUnt had only had 3 HW fights. HE beat Dan Bobish, TK, and a controversial split decision with Cro Cop and he was ranked 4th. IT was the biggest bunch of shit i ever seen. Both were K-1 fighters. It was a style fight that Cro Cop was going to struggle with because he was going to stand and HUnt has a chin. You cant cherry pick match ups and rank a guy over 1 fight he was supposed to win. Earnesto Hoost would have beat Cro Cop if he was matched up in that fight. Because Cro Cop was only going to strike. That wouldnt make Hoost a top 5 MMA fighter. There was maybe up to 10 or more K-1 guys who could have done what Hunt done. It wasnt a MMA fight. It was kickboxing.

 

Even after that fight he lost to Barnett and he still didnt drop down the ranks. Nutpriders argued that since Barnett was ranked it didnt hurt Hunt. Then he went on to lose to Fedor and still didnt drop from the rankings. I think he got to like 6-7. It wasnt until he went almost 2 years without a fight that he fell from the top 10. Of course he went on to lose 4 more in a row. He never was a top HW MMA fighter.

 

 

 

BTW, who was the NFL player? You are calling Brock a NFL player? Are you a moron? He walked on and played in a few practice/pre season games. Brock has the same fight credintials as many of the top fighters. He comes from the same background as Hughes, Koscheck, Couture, and many others. HIs style is the most important base for MMA. Anyone who says he shouldnt have got a shot in MMA or was a NFL player is a retard. HE had been training for MMA for 2 years and had already fought MMA. In fact he had more MMA training than fighters like Koscheck when he got into the UFC. Making these desperate grabs to defend Pride only shows how pathetic the promotion was. You dont have anything real to cling to. You have to make stuff up and discredit the UFC. I dont have to do that. We have actually fights between the two groups that you people refuse to own up to. Gan McGee beat Herring and Ricco beat Nog. BUt the judges work for Pride and would never allow them to get the decision.

[Rambo]

 

Anyone that wanna bet on Jds i bet on Overeem for the win , 200K , plus i'll pay if i lose the bet.

 

 

I'll take that bet, but if you don't pay me I'll invade France to find you.

[Guest]

I'll take that bet, but if you don't pay me I'll invade France to find you.

 

 

Then what?

[Guest]

Hunt wasnt 10th in Prdie. He was top 4-6 in all of MMA because boobs like you fell for the hype that Pride was light years ahead of the UFC. I remember it like yesterday. HUnt had only had 3 HW fights. HE beat Dan Bobish, TK, and a controversial split decision with Cro Cop and he was ranked 4th. IT was the biggest bunch of shit i ever seen. Both were K-1 fighters. It was a style fight that Cro Cop was going to struggle with because he was going to stand and HUnt has a chin. You cant cherry pick match ups and rank a guy over 1 fight he was supposed to win. Earnesto Hoost would have beat Cro Cop if he was matched up in that fight. Because Cro Cop was only going to strike. That wouldnt make Hoost a top 5 MMA fighter. There was maybe up to 10 or more K-1 guys who could have done what Hunt done. It wasnt a MMA fight. It was kickboxing.

 

Even after that fight he lost to Barnett and he still didnt drop down the ranks. Nutpriders argued that since Barnett was ranked it didnt hurt Hunt. Then he went on to lose to Fedor and still didnt drop from the rankings. I think he got to like 6-7. It wasnt until he went almost 2 years without a fight that he fell from the top 10. Of course he went on to lose 4 more in a row. He never was a top HW MMA fighter.

 

 

 

BTW, who was the NFL player? You are calling Brock a NFL player? Are you a moron? He walked on and played in a few practice/pre season games. Brock has the same fight credintials as many of the top fighters. He comes from the same background as Hughes, Koscheck, Couture, and many others. HIs style is the most important base for MMA. Anyone who says he shouldnt have got a shot in MMA or was a NFL player is a retard. HE had been training for MMA for 2 years and had already fought MMA. In fact he had more MMA training than fighters like Koscheck when he got into the UFC. Making these desperate grabs to defend Pride only shows how pathetic the promotion was. You dont have anything real to cling to. You have to make stuff up and discredit the UFC. I dont have to do that. We have actually fights between the two groups that you people refuse to own up to. Gan McGee beat Herring and Ricco beat Nog. BUt the judges work for Pride and would never allow them to get the decision.

 

At this point I checked some where and Hunt was ranked #9 as overall HW. And if he lost ? He didnt drop rankings simply because at that time there where no HW like there is now it was 2000 come on! Cain also was KOd in 1round by JDS still is ranked 2 in world! and? Same with Rashad also lost to Jones also ranked the same as #2. In your rankings probably when Sonne lost to Anderson he was not only ranked the same but was ranked as number 1

 

 

NFL player is Mitrion now of course he probably is not that high ranked when he got his as wooped by Kongo but before he was. Brock Lesner was pro wresltler with 0 striking experience and he was UFC hw champion aint that a joke? Your talking about year 2000 where kickboxer where ranked in top10 when MMA where not close to what it is now but now in UFC 2years a go HW champion was pro wrestler with 0 striking experience

[Guest]

He scared

http://mmabadass.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Cheick-Kongo-KO-of-Pat-Barry.gif

 

def scared

[Guest]

At this point I checked some where and Hunt was ranked #9 as overall HW. And if he lost ? He didnt drop rankings simply because at that time there where no HW like there is now it was 2000 come on! Cain also was KOd in 1round by JDS still is ranked 2 in world! and? Same with Rashad also lost to Jones also ranked the same as #2. In your rankings probably when Sonne lost to Anderson he was not only ranked the same but was ranked as number 1

 

 

NFL player is Mitrion now of course he probably is not that high ranked when he got his as wooped by Kongo but before he was. Brock Lesner was pro wresltler with 0 striking experience and he was UFC hw champion aint that a joke? Your talking about year 2000 where kickboxer where ranked in top10 when MMA where not close to what it is now but now in UFC 2years a go HW champion was pro wrestler with 0 striking experience

 

 

You are naming guys who had tons of fights and beat big names and lost when no one was close to them or everyone around them lost. What do you do? Drop Cain below Overeem who only beat the guy Cain already beat? Cain was #1 and fell to #2. Cain is unboubtly one of the top 5 fighters and can match up with anyone. Hunt could only have a chance with 25% of the fighters. HE litterally couldnt face any wrestling based or high level BJJ fighter. I dont see how you even mention the two in the same sentence.

 

 

Hunt should have never been ranked to begin with and when he lost the way he did it should have told everyone that he didnt belong. We know Chael is one of the best at 185. Yeah he is inconsistant. BUt he beats everyone in the rankings behind him. The ones who have caught him or could catch him in a sub cant win enough to be in the rankings. If there was 10 Damian Maia's behind him yeah he should drop behind them. BUt not when it is guys he has beat or would easily beat.

 

 

Look at the excuses. IT wasnt in 2000. Cro Cop won the 2006 Open Weight Grand Prix. He was the same dman over rated fighter proven so 7 months later when he was smashed out of the UFC. His skills would have never succeeded in the UFC. Never!!!!

[Erik]

Sylvia had good takedown defense and ground defense. Proven when he fought Monson who Fedor ducked on 3 different accasions until Monson was way past his prime. That is a fact. In fact Monson was already choosen to fight Fedor in Bodog and was replaced after the fact by 185 Matt Lindland. A little later we got to see how picky and how much leverage Fedor had in who he fought. Fedor and his camp refused to fight Monson and it wasnt the first time either.

 

Sylvia has a nonexistent ground defence as proven by Mir, Arlovski, Fedor and Nog all subbing him within seconds of the fight hitting the ground -- he couldn't get Couture off him on the ground either, all he could do was hold Randys hands and try and get Big John to stand him up.

 

Fedor didn't refuse to fight Monson either, Bodog wanted Fedor vs Lindland so they could sell the USA vs Russia deal (seeing as Lindland had an Olympic medal and Monson is an anarchist), regardless Monson was a joke who Rizzo destroyed despite Rizzo being way past it (to the point where Zentsov who was a complete nobody in Pride knocked him out brutally).

 

 

Arlovski has a sambo background and through this has decent sub game and takedown defense. This was clear when he stuffed Vlady in their fight. You are grasping for any branch to save you from drowning. You are trying to compare 4 fighters who spent many many years training in MMA with Cro Cop who walked straight into MMA with a few months of training and beat everyone Pride had because the takedown level and wrestling level was so weak in Pride. Which is not surprising when the only wrestlers are guys who were booted from the UFC on long losing streaks and 40 years old.

 

Arlovski got taken down repeatedly by O'Brien, a blown up LHW who wasn't any good even in his own weight class, Arlovski was a decent kickboxer with shitty defence and a weak ground game.

 

 

Pride didn't have any wrestlers because there wasn't a single HW wrestler who was competitive from 2003 (when Rodriguez, the last remaining top HW wrestler -- given Randy had dropped to 205 and Kerr had fucked himself over -- fucked himself up with drugs, partying and a shitty work ethic) until Velasquez showed up which was well after Pride ceased operations.

[Eveas]

I don't know how to make it auto-skip to 4 minutes 40 seconds, so just skip there. I loved Pride. I have never been to a UFC even when Silva fought Franklin in my home town, but I have been to Pride. It was painfully obvious they fixed fights, had Yakuza running things behind the scene, became popular mainly due to their pro-wrestling base, and hand picking of champions. Not every fight was fixed, but enough were to place serious doubt on anyone who strung together any significant number of wins. Even the fans knew it, but due to Pride's pro-wrestling influence the fans did not care. They expected it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPZrUpDkws4&feature=related

[Guest]

Good post Eveas. There is nothing wrong with liking Pride. But at least like it for what it was. They put on a hell of a show. This alone is to make their product appear more legit than anyone else. THe pagentry(sp) of their events was another level. Something you do not see in american sports. The entrances, ceremonies(sp), etc. Even the circus matches were a much needed change of pace for a while. Now and again it gets a little old watching two top guys squeek by each other. Sometimes its good to see what a top level guy does to a one diminsional fighter or a Judo guy or a regular Joe Pro wrestler. But when it comes to competition you just cant compare it to the UFC or some of the other promotions at the time who were legit. Because there was so many fake fights it effected the perception of everyone invovled.

 

It would be like finding out all of Brock Lesnars fights before Cain were fake. It wouldnt mean Santos was involved in fake fights. But it would make you really have to reevaluate Cain. That was his biggest win most people judge his skill compared to top HW's. You would also be back to square one with Overeem not fighting anyone and still being built on Strike Force bums. Then you really have to reevaluate Dos Santos. In the end 1 fighter being over hyped by fixed fights can over hype the entire division. Now do this on an epic scale like Pride was. Now im not saying every fighter was a bum and im not saying even 25% of fights were fake. What i am saying is it doesnt take 25% or even 5% to create a complete over hyped division. It doesnt take many rule changes, short notice fights, cherry picked opponents, jet lagged fighters, etc to put who you want as the top fighters and make them look unstoppable. Even the mismatches like Wandy vs Tamura was set up to create the larger than life stars. If doesnt matter how big a bum an opponent is. IF you keep seeing Wandy slay people it gets into your head. Wandy could walk into a pre-school and KO'ed 20 4 year olds and you would be like "That guys has power". Being Pro Wrestling based. Pride was great at building stars. Skills didnt matter. They wasnt running a sport. They were a business trying to steal money from other pro wrestling promotions. They did it any way they could.