Rambo Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Nah, it's still really bogus -- very few times have we seen a takedown where the guy ends up in mount in under a few seconds, and when we do it's usually a guy like Maia just instantly passing rather than the actual takedown. Yeah I agree, but we do see it. Add that in the flavor text... scores TD into side control and instantly passed to mount. Scored TD into half guard but quickly passed to mount before so & so could react. Flavor text would help soothe those TD into mount wounds. Might not heal em, but sure as hell would be a lot more creative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 It's pretty easy to mount from side control anyways, so as long as takedowns into side control exist I think they're sufficient. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widing Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Yeah I agree, but we do see it. Add that in the flavor text... scores TD into side control and instantly passed to mount. Scored TD into half guard but quickly passed to mount before so & so could react. Flavor text would help soothe those TD into mount wounds. Might not heal em, but sure as hell would be a lot more creative. I'd rather have takedowns to half guard or something, and let the fighter pass HIMSELF depending on sliders etc, not just take someone down straight into mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rac2 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I myself agree with CK. I think takedowns into mount exist in real life and, as such, they must be contemplated here too. 4~5%, depending on factors like Wrestling and BJJ primary level, takedown defense and def grappling, seems like a good percentage amount to me. I also agree adding a better variety of flavor text will help in the understanding they actually do not occur very often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I myself agree with CK. I think takedowns into mount exist in real life and, as such, they must be contemplated here too. 4~5%, depending on factors like Wrestling and BJJ primary level, takedown defense and def grappling, seems like a good percentage amount to me. I also agree adding a better variety of flavor text will help in the understanding they actually do not occur very often. lol what? 4-5% of takedowns don't land in mount, I'd estimate that 90-95% of takedowns don't land beyond half guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rac2 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 lol what? 4-5% of takedowns don't land in mount, I'd estimate that 90-95% of takedowns don't land beyond half guard. I'd love to see a trustworthy source on that. Even so, I didn't say 4~5% land into mount. I said 4~5% ratio with other factors into consideration. Simply zero'ing it does not seem accurate scientific observation Actually the impression I have (meaning I did not estimate and I did not count) from minor events in Brazil (jungle fight, afc, shooto, biteti) and major ww events (basically Impacta, UFC and Bellator) is that 5% would be a good number to ratio takedowns into mounts on. In the very high level they're a lot less common, but that's probably because of the fighters wrestling and/or bjj knowledge. 4% is actually only four out of one fing hundred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 The problem is in this game the only TD's we have are single legs, double legs, and the rare suplex/slam. IRL there's trips, (judo) throws, slams, I'm sure I'm prolly missin something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTl-px8QZHA 6:03 TD into full mount. I think there was a TD into side control and half guard in that fight too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XE3mdkNCes 2:32 TD into Side Control 4:20 headlock TD into side control 9:50 TD into Half Guard This Fight Watch this fight, and that's pretty much why flavor text amongst TD's is important. IRL a lot of things happen outside of "He scores a TD into half guard" sometimes there's a scramble, sometimes the defending fighter tries to lock in a guillotine - something this game is missing a lot of, attempted guillotines from TD attempts - and sometimes TD's get reversed giving the other fighter dominant position - something else that this game is missing. But I'm sure TD's into mount occur under 5% of the time IRL, especially since a lot of people pull guard instead of defending TD's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I can only think of one or two occasions i have seen TD's into mount and one in the UFC. Hioki took someone down straight into mount if i remember correctly. Takedowns into side control are a lot more common than mount with Judo throws etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italscratch Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Barnett scored one against that Tyre-replace guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'd rather have takedowns to half guard or something, and let the fighter pass HIMSELF depending on sliders etc, not just take someone down straight into mount. Flavor text is part of the game. I don't see it any different than somebody attempting a submission and the opponent defending and reversing position (or when attempted GNP and opponent reverses position). There's plenty of people passing to mount based on sliders, but there needs to be a much more elaborate variety of takedowns, especially for the ones that are landing into mount. A lot of TD attempts involve a struggle, or a scramble, with one fighter ending up on top. Just add the detail in the text. Pretty simple. I'd also like to see a slam or two from shooting TD's standing, at least for people that meet a certain wrestling / strength requirement. We already have em from the clinch, and I love em. "Polunu has moved round to his opponent's back and is looking for a suplex! Oh snap! He's tossed Suggs clear over his head and slammed him to the mat" Just wish there was much more variety. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Takedown success rates seem kind of fine to me already--I'd be a little wary of them becoming overpowering. Clinchwork on the other hand--yeah I could see the necessity. A little off-topic but I'd really like to see more scrambles to standup, as opposed to the abundance of ref standups--kind of just an aesthetic thing as I think they're completely reversed as far as how often they occur. Guys scramble back to their feet all the time--they don't get ref standups all the time. As far as takedowns to mount...honestly they should happen just as often as the triple decker pecker wrecker easter egg submission, because that's about how often they happen in MMA. I like the idea as it could definitely add a little more depth and strategy, I would just be concerned about the balance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widing Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Flavor text is part of the game. I don't see it any different than somebody attempting a submission and the opponent defending and reversing position (or when attempted GNP and opponent reverses position). There's plenty of people passing to mount based on sliders, but there needs to be a much more elaborate variety of takedowns, especially for the ones that are landing into mount. A lot of TD attempts involve a struggle, or a scramble, with one fighter ending up on top. Just add the detail in the text. Pretty simple. I'd also like to see a slam or two from shooting TD's standing, at least for people that meet a certain wrestling / strength requirement. We already have em from the clinch, and I love em. "Polunu has moved round to his opponent's back and is looking for a suplex! Oh snap! He's tossed Suggs clear over his head and slammed him to the mat" Just wish there was much more variety. But these takedowns to mount seem to be more luck than good sliders, that's why I dont like them. That's why I'd rather have some one take the other guy to half guard and advance to mount himself due to sliders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 But these takedowns to mount seem to be more luck than good sliders, that's why I dont like them. That's why I'd rather have some one take the other guy to half guard and advance to mount himself due to sliders. I'm not arguing that they don't happen too frequently, I agree they prolly happen 2-3% too frequently, but they need to be in the game. Most people don't acknowledge that there's other intangibles to TD's and where your fighter ends up on the ground. If you're getting TD into mount frequently by wrestlers, it's most likely your slider setting or maybe the lack of a very important hidden - but that's for yall to figure out, not for me to tell you. I would just like to see a lot more variety of text. SwanSong - I think you're right, but I wouldn't go crazy with stand ups, but they do need improving. I think most people have a 1 sided "cookie-cutter" slider setting for being on the ground when your fighter's on his back, and trying to stand up is a high risk/reward system, so most people just hang on for dear life and depend on the ref. I'd say the majority prefer to play it safe, so we don't see as many stand ups as we should. ref stand up thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I have no problem with the current system for takedowns, but my problem is more about the standups. It should be difficult to get a takedown, especially against a fighter with good takedown defense. However, referees stand fights up way too quickly, especially if the top fighter is trying to advance position instead of sub spamming. If he is remaining active, the fight should stay on the mat. The fight ratings also need to be tweaked. Right now, almost all ground fights get rated terribly, usually less than 50%, while a standup fight where the two guys dance around and barely throw anything gets at least 80%. The rating for standup fights needs to be lowered and ground/clinch fights increased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJoeSullivan Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 You could then have a stick position for those that want to dirty box/throw elbows in the single collar tie and peope who want to throw knees and elbows in the muay thai plun. If you can throw elbows while holding a Muay Thai plum then you are cheating because you got at least 3 arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJoeSullivan Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Which is probably about 4.9999% too often. seriously.... Think about how common this is in real life. To say that 1% of take downs land in the mount would make most people laugh at you. 0.5% would be exceptionally generous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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