Scumbag manager Name and Shame

[BigJoeSullivan]

I think it probably has been put there before. A lot of the managers are against it (big surprise) because they say that one shady manager could ruin their rep. I'm not sure how I would even rate them. What% do you give someone who just never responds to emails or one that turns down fair fights? I would rather have something you could write in. Just a simple line "wont accept fair fights" "no feedback on declines" or "ignores offers"

[762x39]

I think it probably has been put there before. A lot of the managers are against it (big surprise) because they say that one shady manager could ruin their rep. I'm not sure how I would even rate them. What% do you give someone who just never responds to emails or one that turns down fair fights? I would rather have something you could write in. Just a simple line "wont accept fair fights" "no feedback on declines" or "ignores offers"

I dont have a ORG, but I am an employee on TTFC so I could check out how it works, but never could get into all the work involved so I will stick to my gym. Anyway I think this sounds fair just a place were owners could list who they have had problems with and what the problem is. Plus this would give the manager a chance to respond. Anyway that is just my opinion as a non ORG owner.

[BigJoeSullivan]

as much as I want an alternative solution there are a few threads on it. I'd like to try and keep this one on target and focused only on warning org recruiters about problematic managers.

[BigJoeSullivan]

Regrettably I have to add another here. I've done everything I can to try and reason with this guy but he is just stone walling me for no apparent reason. Dex Betancourt. was one of our best managers for a long time. He's been with VH as long as I have if not longer (at least 7 months). He was the ideal manager. He is very active, if you sent him an offer or email he would respond the same day almost every time often within a few hous. The next day at the latest. He declines fights rarely and when he did he gave an reason why. We had good communication back and forth and never had a negative word between us. He currently has 3 or 4 fighters with us and over the past 7 months has had a lot more. He had just resigned one of his guys for a 5 fight deal so he certainly must have been happy at that point.

 

The problems started after he lost a title fight. I don't know that this actually caused the issue it maybe only a coincidence but it started right after. Suddenly fight offers were declined without any communication. Pretty odd for him so I ignored it at first. I figured since he had been such a co-operative manager I just assumed he had a good reason. Next time he declined saying that his fighter had just fought. I always make new fight offers the same day or next whenever a card is completed. I set up their next fight right away and give them 3-4 weeks for training. Pretty standard amount of time and they knew what to prepare for the entire time. Anyone who's been with us for as long as Dex knows this is standard. Still he declined a fight saying he had just fought. I started to email him to say "you realize this is a month away right?" but I didn't want to stir him up and cause a problem so I decided against it. I just moved the fight, a week or 2 back and resent it. He ignored that offer and another for a different fight for about a week. i say ignore because I know for a fact he was logged in because I could see him and he also responded to to a contract the my recruiter sent him. This is a situation where he just didn't have time to log in although this is what he tries to claim.

 

==========================================================

 

fight offer 2013-02-22 21:15:18

I need an answer on these fight offers. It's been like a week now.

 

I let this go on for far longer then normal because of the previous good relations. It took another 5 days for him to make a decision and it was a blank decline against a fighter that is a bit lower ID but primaries are basically the same. He was the underdog and if he declined and said he didn't like the ID difference I would have been a bit annoyed but I would have just changed the fight. Instead he decided to wait a week, ignore an email asking for a decision, wait 5 more days and then decline without giving any reason. that alone is enough for me to want someone off my roster but I wasn't 100% sure what was going on.

 

Fighter Declined the fight offer. 2013-02-26 00:10:42

 

 

 

 

Fight Offered

Fighter : Alak Betatar

Opponent : Smackmy Bitshup

Weight : 145 lbs

Rounds : 3

Title : No

Event : Valhalla: Hilo 39

Matchmaker : Big Joe Sullivan

Date : 2013-03-22

Re: Fighter Declined the fight offer. 2013-02-26 01:49:07

if you are going to decline i need to know why so i can adjust.

 

At this point I'm a lot more pissed then I'm letting on so I decided to resend the same fight since he gave no reason and had ignored my attempt to find out why. If he wants to play dumb with me I can play that too.

 

Contract Declined 2013-02-28 00:00:00

 

Contract Offered

 

Fighter : Naturo Xpenza

Org : Valhalla: Hilo (165k+ ID)

Org Base : Hilo

Weight : 145 lbs

Fights : 4

Signing Bonus : 3000

Base Pay : 3000

Win Bonus : 3000

Expires : 01 Aug 2013

Inactivity Clause : 34

Exclusive : Yes

 

This is another one of his fighters that is not with my org. My recruiter sent the offer and when i saw the decline I didn't know who it was and as I normally do with declined contracts that have no reason i email them to politely ask if there is anything we can change on the contract to possibly change their mind. When I saw that it was Dex's fighter I knew 100% that he was definitely playing the game and just choosing to ignore my fight offers. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt at this point despite seeing him logged in. I leave my computer on 24h a day so I might look on but i'm not always there so I assumed this could be the case with him.

 

 

What's happening man? 2013-02-28 08:31:58

We use to have decent communication now its like pulling teeth to get you to respond and you decline fair fights with no explanation or just ignore them all together. What the hell?

 

At this point I contacted my business partner K Bucko to ask him to try and talk to him. As far as I know he didn't respond to him either. After another 5 days I lose my shit and unload 3 weeks of built up frustration. This is far from typical for me. I think any of the other mangers will tell you I'm polite and give them almost anything they ask for (except cans to crush). When people ignore fights its selfish because it ultimately effects everyone else in the division at some point.

 

I'm done with your bullshit 2013-03-03 14:25:19

I'm fully aware that you log in often. I know that you are just ignoring fights and emails. your fighters are going to sit on this roster for the full duration of their contract. I will make sure the inactivity clause is not triggered. Take a look at your contracts and you will see they are going to be there for a long time and they will have no hype left when its done.

 

I don't want to do this but I really don't have much choice because you refuse to communicate. I am happy to release your fighters at any time if you pay double the signing bonus for each of them. OR we can forget this ever happened, you go back to responding to fight offers and emails like normal and I will forget this bitch move and we can move on as if it didn't happen. It's up to you.

Re:do whatever you want. 2013-03-03 16:36:00

You can go fuck yourself, I couldn´t care less for your shit.

Re: Re:do whatever you want. 2013-03-03 20:16:31

wtf is the problem? things went from totally fine, no problems to 100% problems. What started this? The last communication I got from you was that you didn't want to fight so soon after your last fight so I changed that fight to be like 2 weeks later. Thats the last time I heard anything until now. I have no clue why you started doing all this.

Re: Re: Re:do whatever you want. 2013-03-03 23:06:43

Look, man. Gonna be fast. Computer-based business, a lot of fucking work, no time.

Re: Re: Re: Re:do whatever you want. 2013-03-03 23:20:17

right well you seem to have enough time to log on everyday but not make decisions on fight offers? I'm not buying it. Myabe you don't realize that I can see wheven everyone on my roster is logged on and if they havn't been on for a while. If you have time to log in then you have time to make a quick decision on fights. Otherwise why are you bothering to play.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:do whatever you want. 2013-03-04 03:54:44

What you don´t realize, is that I couldn´t care less for you, or any of your shit. Keep the fucking sims, as long as you fucking want.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:do whatever you want. 2013-03-04 04:24:15

this is what I am talking about. you don't have time to make a decision on fight offers because of your busy life but you have plenty of time to email back to say how much you don't care. I tried to be reasonable with you but you are unreasonable so fuck you if thats how you want it.

[WarMachine]

Or you could add a plus or minus to the in game, than the good guys in the game could be targeted by the popular kids and than no one would want to deal with them. It would just be the usual popular kids than you will have a user base of 100 managers give or take a few multis.

Than it could be called tycooncunt.com

 

I like that idea. Let's put in a manager rating system.

 

What's the worst that could happen.

[Guest]

Or you could add a plus or minus to the in game, than the good guys in the game could be targeted by the popular kids and than no one would want to deal with them. It would just be the usual popular kids than you will have a user base of 100 managers give or take a few multis.

Than it could be called tycooncunt.com

 

I like that idea. Let's put in a manager rating system.

 

What's the worst that could happen.

 

That may happen, you're right Chris. But i still think that adding manager rating system is really good idea. But it would be better if that system would allow to add rating, commentary and link to a manager profile page of a guy who added it.

 

Bragi~

[Guest]

Not a huge complaint but, this guy ricardo king had an org in montreal that my fighter was in and he had a title fight lined up, the fight was to be in NY so my guy flew over there, then the owner shut down the org after my fighter arrived in NY and before the event took place, took over a new company in a different city and sent my title contender a new contract of 1k/1k/1k... no thank you sir! Again, its not a huge deal but I thought I may as well share.

[Mentor]

Or you could add a plus or minus to the in game,

 

that is basically what i meant

[Guest]

Nevermind, I decided that whilst he is a dickhead he isn't a scumbag

[BigJoeSullivan]

Nevermind, I decided that whilst he is a dickhead he isn't a scumbag

 

I would agree but I can't change the title and this wasn't originally intended to be what it has become.

[Guest]

Or you could add a plus or minus to the in game, than the good guys in the game could be targeted by the popular kids and than no one would want to deal with them. It would just be the usual popular kids than you will have a user base of 100 managers give or take a few multis.

Than it could be called tycooncunt.com

 

I like that idea. Let's put in a manager rating system.

 

What's the worst that could happen.

 

I don't like the idea of anyone being allowed to rate anyone. This would cause the same bullshit that happens in the forums where people follow Chris around and -1 his posts just because they are juvenile asses. After all, the only people who can rate me as an org owner are people signed to my org, so it should go the other way around. The only way you can rate someone is if they are signed to your org.

 

Obviously, there could be some abuse. However, it would be less than the abuse we currently have from having no rating system. Besides, you can set up a rating system that minimizes abuse. I'll copy and paste what I said about rules from another thread:

 

To quell some fears, I'd like to propose a very manager friendly version of this:

 

1. The org owner will have his name attached to all ratings, both positive and negative, that he gives. This way, if you have been downvoted by a guy with a 45% satisfaction org or a guy who simply has a bad rep, you will have ammunition to defend yourself.

 

2. It doesn't matter how many fighters you have signed to an org. The owner can only rate you once.

 

3. The first negative vote that you get will remain hidden. This means that one shady owner's bad vote will not be seen by anyone.

 

4. All negative votes will expire after six months, so if you were previously a jerk, but you turned it around, you can redeem your reputation.

 

These rules would make it so that you would need to get downvoted by at least two owners within a six month period for any poor ratings to be publicly seen. It is very unlikely that you will get unfairly punished in this situation. Even if you do, you can defend yourself by showing exactly who it was that downvoted you. Any reasonable org owner will listen to what you have to say. Besides, one of the negative votes will expire shortly after and you will be back to a clean record.

 

The only people who will really get punished are people who receive at least 4 or 5 downvotes within a 6 month period. You have to be a real asshole to accumulate that. It would mean that you are pissing off just about every org owner that you deal with.

 

Also, as for the people worried about shady org owners downvoting innocent members, I highly doubt that will happen. If you downvote a manager, he is going to downvote your org. This means that you either need to release guys that you downvote to prevent them from ruining your org rating, or allow your org rating to be destroyed, thus preventing you from recruiting new fighters. Either way, your org will quickly go down the toilet unless you use the downvote very sparingly.

[ArtieBanks]

Major problem for rating managers is being an org owner, they are a lot more things a fighter can do to piss you off than you can do to piss them off.

 

Lets say for instance my guy Njord. I left CWFC with the SHW belt. I had destroyed the division and he had no one else for me to fight. That prolly pissed him off leaving with the belt but i told him a few times, get me a superfight or let me go out on one. To which is reply was i'll find you one then sent in a 1700 p4p fighter to fight Njord who was 200 p4p at the time. It was the final straw so i left. I never said anything to him after it. No doubt if he was active or that again he would have downvoted me as a manager. Which IMO isn't deserved.

 

When i ran Ascension i had the same problem with a guy named Otaktay and his manager Brandon Loveladdy. Our FW division was weak and we had trouble recruiting for it. So i let him go out on a couple of superfights and managed to get one or two in Ascension via the division. In the end i scraped the division and told him he could go where he pleases and good luck to him in the future. Its the same way i'd like to be dealt with. Me and Brandon left on good terms and i don't have anything but nice things to say about him. Sad fact is most org owners aren't like that. If you have hype and have outgrown the org they do not care, they want you to sit and fight guys who are no where close to your hype. Instead of going out, building some bridges with bigger managers and signing bigger named fighters. ID orgs don't fit the mould as they are still growing but 150k ID orgs should now be finding guys with similar hype in other orgs and arranging superfights. Its good to see that most of the ID org owners are in good relations with each other and isn't as much politics as owning an org outwidth the ID org community.

 

My question since most guys in here are ID org owners is this. What is going to happen when your guys outgrow the org? 150k ID guys are nearing maturity. I have a guy at 149918. Hes nearly Elite Sens Sens Brown. Thats like most of my top guys right there. Will they stay in ID orgs or go out and try to fight the big named guys such as Creed and Otso? It was the one thing i always wondered when ID orgs really came about, what happens when they are fully trained.

[WarMachine]

But there's nothing wrong with the -1 and +1 on the forums ? So why can't it work in the game?

[ArtieBanks]

Because around 200 members use the forums, 5000 odd people use the game. You going around calling everyone a cbomb on the forums isn't exactly a great way to make friends.

[WarMachine]

Dean I'm not calling everyone a cbomb and I've not called you one either, even though you basically said I had mental health.

 

I don't see why people in game can't get the same treatment good or bad in game. It would sure clean the game up of shadyness.

 

I've come to the conclusion, a reputation good or bad is still a reputation. You have a good reputation I have a very bad one. Why not give people a reason to not like me.

 

At the end of the day, I'm having a bit of fun, some people like to -1 a post I like to call people a cbomb. Only difference is I'm actually saying it they aint theve been doing it months I've done it for one night and a day.

 

[Warwynd]

I don't like the idea of anyone being allowed to rate anyone. This would cause the same bullshit that happens in the forums where people follow Chris around and -1 his posts just because they are juvenile asses. After all, the only people who can rate me as an org owner are people signed to my org, so it should go the other way around. The only way you can rate someone is if they are signed to your org.

 

Obviously, there could be some abuse. However, it would be less than the abuse we currently have from having no rating system. Besides, you can set up a rating system that minimizes abuse. I'll copy and paste what I said about rules from another thread:

 

 

 

Also, as for the people worried about shady org owners downvoting innocent members, I highly doubt that will happen. If you downvote a manager, he is going to downvote your org. This means that you either need to release guys that you downvote to prevent them from ruining your org rating, or allow your org rating to be destroyed, thus preventing you from recruiting new fighters. Either way, your org will quickly go down the toilet unless you use the downvote very sparingly.

 

This proposal I could get on board with.

 

Major problem for rating managers is being an org owner, they are a lot more things a fighter can do to piss you off than you can do to piss them off.

 

Lets say for instance my guy Njord. I left CWFC with the SHW belt. I had destroyed the division and he had no one else for me to fight. That prolly pissed him off leaving with the belt but i told him a few times, get me a superfight or let me go out on one. To which is reply was i'll find you one then sent in a 1700 p4p fighter to fight Njord who was 200 p4p at the time. It was the final straw so i left. I never said anything to him after it. No doubt if he was active or that again he would have downvoted me as a manager. Which IMO isn't deserved.

 

When i ran Ascension i had the same problem with a guy named Otaktay and his manager Brandon Loveladdy. Our FW division was weak and we had trouble recruiting for it. So i let him go out on a couple of superfights and managed to get one or two in Ascension via the division. In the end i scraped the division and told him he could go where he pleases and good luck to him in the future. Its the same way i'd like to be dealt with. Me and Brandon left on good terms and i don't have anything but nice things to say about him. Sad fact is most org owners aren't like that. If you have hype and have outgrown the org they do not care, they want you to sit and fight guys who are no where close to your hype. Instead of going out, building some bridges with bigger managers and signing bigger named fighters. ID orgs don't fit the mould as they are still growing but 150k ID orgs should now be finding guys with similar hype in other orgs and arranging superfights. Its good to see that most of the ID org owners are in good relations with each other and isn't as much politics as owning an org outwidth the ID org community.

 

My question since most guys in here are ID org owners is this. What is going to happen when your guys outgrow the org? 150k ID guys are nearing maturity. I have a guy at 149918. Hes nearly Elite Sens Sens Brown. Thats like most of my top guys right there. Will they stay in ID orgs or go out and try to fight the big named guys such as Creed and Otso? It was the one thing i always wondered when ID orgs really came about, what happens when they are fully trained.

 

That is a tricky situation. One that I will not likely have to deal with for quite some time as my org is only 200K+ but when that day comes I will need to address it. I think that the way I would handle it is much the same way that you handled Loveladdy. I would PM the manager and say something like, "Hey, your guy is amazing. I love that you have stayed loyal all this time, but your boy is a breast, and there is no one left in the org that I can match him up with that is a fair match. It's not fair to you and it's not fair to the other managers. I think it's time for me to cut you loose so that you can move on to bigger and better things"

 

It will suck for me because I will take the big hype hit for him leaving, but it would be exactly as I said... not fair to anyone. I hate seeing orgs where they pit a Elite/Sens/Sens/Brown against Proficient/Strong/Wonderful/Purples.... that is hardly even worth accepting that fight... It is more annoying to me then a guy fighting for the title as his first fight in an org... And I find that highly annoying. Some one mentioned either in here or another thread about maybe making it that a champion can relinquish a title and the org can then lose no hype... or perhaps the org only takes a 5% hit and the fighter takes a similar hit... something like that. I think that, that should be something that eventually gets added to the game...

[Guest]

 

That is a tricky situation. One that I will not likely have to deal with for quite some time as my org is only 200K+ but when that day comes I will need to address it. I think that the way I would handle it is much the same way that you handled Loveladdy. I would PM the manager and say something like, "Hey, your guy is amazing. I love that you have stayed loyal all this time, but your boy is a breast, and there is no one left in the org that I can match him up with that is a fair match. It's not fair to you and it's not fair to the other managers. I think it's time for me to cut you loose so that you can move on to bigger and better things"

 

It will suck for me because I will take the big hype hit for him leaving, but it would be exactly as I said... not fair to anyone. I hate seeing orgs where they pit a Elite/Sens/Sens/Brown against Proficient/Strong/Wonderful/Purples.... that is hardly even worth accepting that fight... It is more annoying to me then a guy fighting for the title as his first fight in an org... And I find that highly annoying. Some one mentioned either in here or another thread about maybe making it that a champion can relinquish a title and the org can then lose no hype... or perhaps the org only takes a 5% hit and the fighter takes a similar hit... something like that. I think that, that should be something that eventually gets added to the game...

 

 

ye as an org owner i have a heavyweight champ who is within the ID range but is a beast 8/13/10/purple for my org thats awesome so do you guys think i should let him go?

[Steel]

ye as an org owner i have a heavyweight champ who is within the ID range but is a beast 8/13/10/purple for my org thats awesome so do you guys think i should let him go?

 

i think the guys are referring to hype of a fighter being far greater than the rest of the roster.

 

The comparative skill set of fighters is a different issue.

 

Also the thread is now discussing reasons why A manager might take action that pisses off the org owner and their responses to such action , and not what the thread was originally for, which is name the scumbag and give the reason why so other org owners can give the so named twat a wide berth.

[Warwynd]

Well... that depends on a lot of variables. Like you said in your org it is, but that doesn't mean everything. Are there people that can beat him? I would not cut him too hastily. If he has already cleaned out your heavyweight division and there is no one left for him to fight or if he is vastly more skilled than the other guys in the division... then it could be time to consider that. Exceptional Muay Thai is pretty good, but not unbeatable. Take a look at this fight: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=520938

 

On paper it looked like there was no way I could win that fight, but as you can see despite being lower in every single primary that I was able to pull out the win... frankly, no one was more surprised by that fight result than I was. What it shows is that even though he is better in his primaries then most guys in your org doesn't mean that it's time for him to move on. It's time for you to look more closely at the division and see if there is anyone there that he hasn't already beaten that could maybe give him a good fight or maybe even beat him. If so then keep him on for awhile. If not... maybe talk about cutting him. But talk with him and not just shit canning the guy... explain your reasoning and be open to different viewpoints.

 

Steel is right though... we have drifted way off course here and we need to get back to the threads main focus...

[ArtieBanks]

http://www.mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=20608

 

Caio Mendes. Took a nice contract for his fighter at the time. Tried to cherry pick his fights and i ended up releasing him. He then done it again so i think he should be giving a wide berth.

[BigJoeSullivan]

My question since most guys in here are ID org owners is this. What is going to happen when your guys outgrow the org? 150k ID guys are nearing maturity. I have a guy at 149918. Hes nearly Elite Sens Sens Brown. Thats like most of my top guys right there. Will they stay in ID orgs or go out and try to fight the big named guys such as Creed and Otso? It was the one thing i always wondered when ID orgs really came about, what happens when they are fully trained.

 

Honestly I've never given it much thought. I've only been doing it for about 7 months. Obviously like you say the fighters will grow to a level where fighting in an ID org will not really help them anymore and will actually hold them back. I have guys who are 165-205+ of various skill levels. It takes a bit of effort to make fair matches but its doable with if you take the time. Maybe we will lift the restriction at some point or change the limit. I never considered it and would have to talk to my business partner about that.

[DavyJones]

The fighters don't outgrow the org they grow WITH it. As long as you are an active recruiter there are always fighters at the low end of your ID range that become available to keep the top end of the division fresh and active. The hard part is competing with the big orgs who offer huge contracts. I eventually just had to set an ID cap, I only recruit between 150k and 190k that way everyone stays within the same ID range and you run into less problems. Also that way I wont compete with the 190k+ org that is in the same city.

[Guest]

What Davy said. I don't have an ID restriction but the same applies. I constantly recruit at a level on par with my champs as well as anything below. As such, I am not up to a standard like Dinoo's guy yet, and do not recruit for that but once the guys I already have grow into that kind skill level then I shall.

[Guest]

Personally, I don't think a champ should leave with the belt under the current rules. It is far too much of a penalty for the org you are leaving behind. If we would FINALLY introduce the ability to voluntarily give up your title to prevent massive org hype penalties, this wouldn't be an issue.

[ArtieBanks]

The fighters don't outgrow the org they grow WITH it. As long as you are an active recruiter there are always fighters at the low end of your ID range that become available to keep the top end of the division fresh and active. The hard part is competing with the big orgs who offer huge contracts. I eventually just had to set an ID cap, I only recruit between 150k and 190k that way everyone stays within the same ID range and you run into less problems. Also that way I wont compete with the 190k+ org that is in the same city.

 

Thing is though, i mean as a manager i want to fight the Otso's, Afro's, Diggs and Creeds of this game. Eventually my guys will be upto that level. I mean 150k ID guys are swimming pretty close to complete already. When a fighter reaches 24/25. Most of the time there learning days are done. If you learn its in small doses but for the most part its time to fight. I have fights agains Otso, Afro and Diggs/Womba all coming up with guys i picked up from F/A. I'd much rather it be my own guys i have spent time training on and worked them up.

 

Davy i like the fact you are an active org owner but the fact remains. You are strictly a 150k ID org. Why because its nearly 2 years training gap. Orgs are struggling to remain open with no ID limit. eventually the 150k ID pool will dry up and these guys will want to fight bigger and better opponents. You said it yourself, money talks. These big orgs will offer 700k 100k 100k without even as much as a seconds thought to someone in the top 50. ID orgs to me have always just been a stop gap in a fighters career. A place to find fair fights until he could go swim with the sharks.

 

What i am saying must sound pretty shitty to ID org owners. I love fighting my guys in ID orgs they are a great idea. Its just what i think about it.

 

@Nexus i wish you could just drop a belt. I don't take any pleasure in screwing over an org and keeping the belt.